I suppose this is on me for never looking into it, but when exactly does the electoral college place their votes? I thought they submitted their votes more or less right after all the final state counts came in.
About the only change that will come is that life will be harder for non-rich, non-white, non-christian, non-straight people.
People will be paying more taxes (unless you are fairly wealthy), have less access to healthcare, and have the side benefit of watching the Earth die that much faster.
Was there really? Clinton won the popular vote and every sane person agrees that Trump is unfit. This is, in fact, exactly the sort of protection the electoral college is intended to provide.
Trump goes to trial on November 28th for fraud shenaqnigans with Trump University. That hasn't been widely discussed in the media. When this actually happens, some electors might be persuaded to at least abstain from voting for Trump.
Yes, it's highly unusual, but EVERYTHING about this election has been highly unusual.
Were you not paying attention during the primaries?
I daresay that I probably paid more attention than you. Speaking of the primaries - they support my point about how everything this cycle has been highly unusual.
Much as it pains me to know this, but there will be talk about this, maybe even some action. But on Dec 19 when electoral college votes are cast, they will be for Trump. Any other outcome and I'll eat a hat of your choice. (I hope against hope I have to eat a hat)
Much as it pains me to know this, but there will be talk about this, maybe even some action. But on Dec 19 when electoral college votes are cast, they will be for Trump. Any other outcome and I'll eat a hat of your choice. (I hope against hope I have to eat a hat)
If it happens, I will be very kind about the choice of material that a hat can be made of.
The talk of Trump picking cabinet members is so fucking ridiculous. I think I'll have to check out of politics for four years. My brain can't handle this. Does not compute.
Even one faithless elector will be huge news and will further damage the credibility of his mandate. Multiple would be a bombshell. It emboldens Democrats to fight a hard line in congress.
I think even one faithless elector would play into his "rigged" sentiments and really just embolden the violence of his base even further.
I'm going to be honest here, I don't see a good out for America right now. My cynicism tells me this wasn't the last American election, but it was probably the last one that matters. The GOP got really cozy with voter suppression over the last eight years, have run on a rhetoric of Democrats as despicable traitors, and now they have pretty much every mechanism of government in the bag.
The worry I have is that we're cruising for a 2018 house and senate red supermajority through disenfranchisement, followed by a transition to a one-party state.
Midterms favoring the party in the White House goes against every historical precedent -- but so does everything else this election. Our hope is in State Legislatures. Suffrage has always come from them. It is at that level that voter suppression laws have been made so it must be at that level that they be revoked.
Midterms favoring the party in the White House goes against every historical precedent -- but so does everything else this election. Our hope is in State Legislatures. Suffrage has always come from them. It is at that level that voter suppression laws have been made so it must be at that level that they be revoked.
2018 is mostly Democrats defending Senate seats. This year was Republicans on defense. The House can flip but the Senate, not so much.
Which just makes the commentary of "Oh, it's your fault for not picking Bernie, she was so unpopular that she couldn't have possibly won" all the funnier.
Which just makes the commentary of "Oh, it's your fault for not picking Bernie, she was so unpopular that she couldn't have possibly won" all the funnier.
This also underlines how unsuitable the electoral college voting system is (just like with Al Gore). member?
Which just makes the commentary of "Oh, it's your fault for not picking Bernie, she was so unpopular that she couldn't have possibly won" all the funnier.
Considering that the popular vote means nothing in American Presidential elections... It really means nothing. As in zip, zero, nothing.
There are people in the heavily blue/red states that simply do not bother voting because they know their vote will not sway the election. Because of this the popular vote is not a useful metric.
Imagine an automobile race where teams only win based on the order in which they cross the finish line. There are no prizes for leading most laps or highest sustained speeds and such. A driver figures out that the best way to insure his team's win is by drafting the leader and never taking the lead. The race ends and this driver ends up winning the race. Meanwhile a bunch of statisticians release all of their data showing who led the most laps, had highest sustained speeds, etc. Would that deligitimize the winner when only crossing the finish line matters? Would drivers even worry about those metrics when they know those metrics will not deliver a win?
Focusing on the popular vote is a fools errand. It does not matter. We do not hold a national election, we hold a ton of state level elections. All that matters is winning states.
That doesn't make it a stupid electoral procedure, especially when the President carries so much power in your political system and is a singular figure that is voted in rather than a party that is placed in power.
Also your comparison to a race makes no sense. Where is the representation of power for each vote. if it is time then every second has an equal value not an imbalance.
That doesn't make it a stupid electoral procedure, especially when the President carries so much power in your political system and is a singular figure that is voted in rather than a party that is placed in power.
Also your comparison to a race makes no sense. Where is the representation of power for each vote. if it is time then every second has an equal value not an imbalance.
To make it more of a race analog... We have a 50 lap race, winner is the guy who wins the most laps, not the guy who crosses the finish line first on lap 50.
Edit for the pedantic: Each lap is worth a varying number of points. Whoever scores more than half of the lap points wins. Does not matter who crosses finish line with the fastest overall time.
The electoral college system was part of the compromise that all states agreed upon when forming the union. The lower population states were concerned that the higher population states would get to make all the decisions, and the Federal government would impose those on every state with no chance for the low population states to ever overcome it. The electoral college is a critical part of the structure of our union. If we get rid of it, there is a legitimate reason to break up the country. Not making a statement of whether that would be a good or bad thing... just stating it.
Remember that the USA was formed in the wake of a war that was fought because the British government was imposing things on its colonies without them having any kind of meaningful voice. Having a meaningful voice, not just a token voice, was the #1 issue states were worried about at that time. That's why we have this system. The election went the way it did because people felt the current direction of the US government was not representing them and their interests. Abolishing the electoral college will not make any progress toward solving that underlying problem. It will only further disenfranchise all those who already felt they weren't being represented.
The racism, religious attacks, misogyny, homophobia, and transhate are all being broadcast loudly right now, but under and around those awful headlines are the people crying for help to make ends meet, the ones who are working 80 hour weeks and are still in debt, the ones who can't get work after 2 years of filling out applications every day, the ones whose towns were built around one industry and are now starving for work because the industry has changed, the ones who want to work but childcare costs more than they would make at any job that will take them right now... we can't ignore the underlying cause of the surge in unabashed and public Othering unless we want it to rise even further.
Focusing on the popular vote is a fools errand. It does not matter. We do not hold a national election, we hold a ton of state level elections. All that matters is winning states.
Focusing on the popular vote is a fools errand. It does not matter. We do not hold a national election, we hold a ton of state level elections. All that matters is winning states.
A necessary errand.
The video is good and the discussion should be had but it can only impact future elections. You can not change the rules of the contest once the contest has begun. As the system is currently designed and operates the "popular vote" is no more a decider of the Presidency than counting how many people voted for a candidate while wearing green shirts.
That is why I say placing any weight on the popular vote is a fools errand. It carries zero weight and only serves to create division after the contest was held and the losing side does not like the result.
Focusing on the popular vote is a fools errand. It does not matter. We do not hold a national election, we hold a ton of state level elections. All that matters is winning states.
A necessary errand.
The video is good and the discussion should be had but it can only impact future elections. You can not change the rules of the contest once the contest has begun. As the system is currently designed and operates the "popular vote" is no more a decider of the Presidency than counting how many people voted for a candidate while wearing green shirts.
That is why I say placing any weight on the popular vote is a fools errand. It carries zero weight and only serves to create division after the contest was held and the losing side does not like the result.
The whole discussion is that the current system is idiotic and has the ability to cheat the person with the most votes who should rightfully win the election out of his victory. As it has happened twice in the last five elections. The entire point is that the popular vote isn't the deciding factor but should be, and that the electoral college unduly gives certain citizens' votes more power than others simply by where they live. Your point of "but that's now how it currently is" is abject pedantry and nothing more. You are contributing nothing to the discussion.
Comments
People will be paying more taxes (unless you are fairly wealthy), have less access to healthcare, and have the side benefit of watching the Earth die that much faster.
I'm going to be honest here, I don't see a good out for America right now. My cynicism tells me this wasn't the last American election, but it was probably the last one that matters. The GOP got really cozy with voter suppression over the last eight years, have run on a rhetoric of Democrats as despicable traitors, and now they have pretty much every mechanism of government in the bag.
The worry I have is that we're cruising for a 2018 house and senate red supermajority through disenfranchisement, followed by a transition to a one-party state.
Which just makes the commentary of "Oh, it's your fault for not picking Bernie, she was so unpopular that she couldn't have possibly won" all the funnier.
There are people in the heavily blue/red states that simply do not bother voting because they know their vote will not sway the election. Because of this the popular vote is not a useful metric.
Imagine an automobile race where teams only win based on the order in which they cross the finish line. There are no prizes for leading most laps or highest sustained speeds and such. A driver figures out that the best way to insure his team's win is by drafting the leader and never taking the lead. The race ends and this driver ends up winning the race. Meanwhile a bunch of statisticians release all of their data showing who led the most laps, had highest sustained speeds, etc. Would that deligitimize the winner when only crossing the finish line matters? Would drivers even worry about those metrics when they know those metrics will not deliver a win?
Focusing on the popular vote is a fools errand. It does not matter. We do not hold a national election, we hold a ton of state level elections. All that matters is winning states.
Also your comparison to a race makes no sense. Where is the representation of power for each vote. if it is time then every second has an equal value not an imbalance.
Edit for the pedantic: Each lap is worth a varying number of points. Whoever scores more than half of the lap points wins. Does not matter who crosses finish line with the fastest overall time.
Imagine a race where it is possible for open racists to win. You change the rules to prevent that from being possible.
Remember that the USA was formed in the wake of a war that was fought because the British government was imposing things on its colonies without them having any kind of meaningful voice. Having a meaningful voice, not just a token voice, was the #1 issue states were worried about at that time. That's why we have this system. The election went the way it did because people felt the current direction of the US government was not representing them and their interests. Abolishing the electoral college will not make any progress toward solving that underlying problem. It will only further disenfranchise all those who already felt they weren't being represented.
The racism, religious attacks, misogyny, homophobia, and transhate are all being broadcast loudly right now, but under and around those awful headlines are the people crying for help to make ends meet, the ones who are working 80 hour weeks and are still in debt, the ones who can't get work after 2 years of filling out applications every day, the ones whose towns were built around one industry and are now starving for work because the industry has changed, the ones who want to work but childcare costs more than they would make at any job that will take them right now... we can't ignore the underlying cause of the surge in unabashed and public Othering unless we want it to rise even further.
That is why I say placing any weight on the popular vote is a fools errand. It carries zero weight and only serves to create division after the contest was held and the losing side does not like the result.