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2016 Presidential Election

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  • edited October 2015
    Churba said:

    I think Bernie's biggest problem with this is that he spends a lot of time preaching to the choir, and not enough trying to get new faces into the congregation. He's doing some, but his voter outreach falls behind other candidates.

    He does have the social media thing going for him, but that can have mixed results, as he doesn't control the message.

    Can't really comment. Don't know what you mean by choir or new faces. As for voter outreach, that is the topic of what I heard through the grapevine but beyond that there hasn't been and wouldn't be any reportage or discussion on that because it is boring. Won't probably know all that much until the postmortem and even that stuff is unreliable. As for social media he controls what he puts out which gets far more press then anything supporter generated. The vast majority of people never see the supporter fits of outrage so I don't even know how that would be factored in to the overall arithmetic.
    Post edited by DoubleGomez on
  • Churba said:

    I think Bernie's biggest problem with this is that he spends a lot of time preaching to the choir, and not enough trying to get new faces into the congregation. He's doing some, but his voter outreach falls behind other candidates.

    He does have the social media thing going for him, but that can have mixed results, as he doesn't control the message.

    Can't really comment. Don't know what you mean by choir or new faces. As for voter outreach, that is the topic of what I heard through the grapevine but beyond that there hasn't been and wouldn't be any reportage or discussion on that because it is boring. Won't probably know all that much until the postmortem and even that stuff is unreliable. As for social media he controls what he puts out which gets far more press then anything supporter generated. The vast majority of people never see the supporter fits of outrage so I don't even know how that would be factored in to the overall arithemtic.
    He talks to people who are most likely to vote for him already and doesn't really try and pull people who either are undecided or will likely vote for Hillary over to his side.
  • Churba said:

    I think Bernie's biggest problem with this is that he spends a lot of time preaching to the choir, and not enough trying to get new faces into the congregation. He's doing some, but his voter outreach falls behind other candidates.

    He does have the social media thing going for him, but that can have mixed results, as he doesn't control the message.

    Can't really comment. Don't know what you mean by choir or new faces. As for voter outreach, that is the topic of what I heard through the grapevine but beyond that there hasn't been and wouldn't be any reportage or discussion on that because it is boring. Won't probably know all that much until the postmortem and even that stuff is unreliable. As for social media he controls what he puts out which gets far more press then anything supporter generated. The vast majority of people never see the supporter fits of outrage so I don't even know how that would be factored in to the overall arithemtic.
    He talks to people who are most likely to vote for him already and doesn't really try and pull people who either are undecided or will likely vote for Hillary over to his side.
    Doesn't really clean up the understanding of Churba's statement much Jack. For the sake of simplicity I am going to take it to mean that he doesn't deviate from his core message enough to attract other... let's call them ideologically diverse voters to his banner and he doesn't speak in front of different audiences like chambers of commerce or farm groups or whatever. If I am misunderstanding you please correct me. I have been wrong before.
  • Basically that. Bernie gives white progressives raging hard-ons, but everyone else is left mildly flaccid.
  • Cremlian said:

    The problem is usually that will account for like 4 or 5 % if you are doing well at getting people to come out that normally don't. Kinda like how Gallup had Romney winning in 2012 by 1% and in the end he lost by 4%.

    It is a general average of the many things a campaign can do to and it works well as a basic heuristic. It is stands in for the many different things a campaign can do and in most elections it works. Primary caucuses however aren't most elections. They are stupidly confusing relics of a bygone age and probably shouldn't exist anymore. That is a reason that I reserve my judgement. It isn't that I think any particular candidate will win over the others, though given several factors and some speculation it looks more or less likely to be going one way. I just don't have enough information to make any educated guess based on information that I trust. The only hard data that exists in money and if you want to get technical, staff numbers and a few other things. Beyond that in politics it is a bunch of hearsay and guess work. Just as I don't accept anecdotal evidence outside of politics for accurate predictions, I don't accept anecdotal evidence inside politics for accurate predictions.
  • Doesn't really clean up the understanding of Churba's statement much Jack.

    I would have hoped that it did, since that's literally exactly what I meant. He talks to his predominantly white, predominantly middle-class base, but struggles to pull in people who aren't already supporters, let alone anyone who also isn't white, middle-class and left-wing.

    He had brief rise, but he's plateaued, and even if he keeps every single person he has right up to the final decision of the democratic primary, if he can't pull in more people, his presidential run effectively ends there.

    He doesn't need to change his core message, or his principles to speak to a wider variety of voters. If he thinks his policies will have a positive effect on, say, farm groups, then he focuses on the parts that will benefit that group, and explains how he's better for them than the other candidates. Or any other group, same procedure.

    I might add, that lack of willingness to diversify his message and speak to people who aren't white and middle-class about how he can be of benefit them is why he's crashing and burning across effectively all minority demographics, too.
  • Y'know how JK Rowling got progressively worse over the course of the Harry Potter series because she became so famous and rich no one will say no to her? That's my read on Sanders. He's an autocrat about his image, which served him well in Vermont, but there's 49 more states. He doesn't have the realpolitik ability to morph into whatever candidate is right for the audience. Additional trouble is that that refusal to change image is what his base loves about him. If he changes his image, his roots feel he's betrayed them. If he maintains his image, he can't get anyone new.
  • Boehner has given the Freedom Caucus the middle finger on his way out the door.

    If that goes through, there goes any leverage the crazies had in Congress.
  • This video is so bad my internet connection committed seppuku.
  • edited November 2015
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • edited November 2015
    Cremlian said:

    Rym said:

    The only thing I fear for the people of Afghanistan more than us staying is us leaving.

    Pretty much, if your concern is the citizens of Afghanistan, us leaving will pretty much cause a out and out civil war where the Taliban pretty much takes over again and everything sucks. Us staying there causes a lower level civil war where people have safe area's they can get into to generally be safe but things still kinda suck. So it's more of Afghanistan is just F'ed view. The best thing we could have done was just bomb the crap out of them after 9/11 and call it a day and went home and watched some football. Everything after that is just a giant cluster that will take a few generations to sort itself out. USA USA USA.. Gooooo Team.
    US sees Taliban as reconciliation partners: Pentagon

    Central Asian politics: always interesting to watch.
    Post edited by DoubleGomez on
  • I'm fairly certain that's a hoax. The only other sites I can find reporting this story are places like "JihadWatch.org" and "ConservativePost.com". I cant even find evidence that a Captain Jeff Davis (very unfortunate name if this is true) gave an "evening news briefing".
  • Greg said:

    I'm fairly certain that's a hoax. The only other sites I can find reporting this story are places like "JihadWatch.org" and "ConservativePost.com". I cant even find evidence that a Captain Jeff Davis (very unfortunate name if this is true) gave an "evening news briefing".

    Certainly hope it is a hoax. There weren't any links to corroborate the article. Foreign policy hoaxes are entertaining to watch but then again I weirdly enjoy fake news(not of the daily show variety, more of the tabloid variety). Capt. Jeff Davis would be an unfortunate name to have been given.
  • Is this up on youtube? I missed it thanks to work and I want to watch the hilarity.
  • Lincoln Chaffee needs to do an It Gets Better video for the GOP kids table candidates.
  • The idea of moving to a new country increases whenever I listen to a GOP debate.
  • edited November 2015
    Banta said:

    Is this up on youtube? I missed it thanks to work and I want to watch the hilarity.

    The things I do for you people...

    and yes, I had to make a playlist of them. Their channel has a playlist called GOP Debate but it's only clips and commentary, not the full debate.
    Post edited by Hitman Hart on
  • Trump starts showing how glaringly unhinged he is in a 90-minute long diatribe that ran 30 minutes overtime in which he calls Carson a child molester, threatens to bomb oil fields, and calls American people stupid.

    Trump unravels.

    And somehow, he might get on the ticket.
  • edited November 2015
    In the interests of fairness and accuracy:
    - He didn't call Carson a child molester, but rather compared him to one.
    - The U.S. is already bombing oil fields.
    - American people are stupid.
    Post edited by lackofcheese on
  • Greg said:

    Starts?

    *snort*
  • edited November 2015
    Post edited by Pegu on
  • Who's not voting for Bernie?
  • Everyone not voting at all.
  • Dazzle369 said:

    Who's not voting for Bernie?

    Debating going to the GOP primary and voting Kasich instead. I don't know which I want more: a socialist President, or a reasonable right wing. It'll depend on who's polling at what when the primaries come to MA.
  • A bunch of people on this forum.
  • Dazzle369 said:

    Who's not voting for Bernie?

    I'm not. I quite like him really, I'm just foreign.
  • I'm still undecided between Bernie and Clinton, though I'm leaning Bernie.
  • I'm not. I don't think he can win.
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