This forum is in permanent archive mode. Our new active community can be found here.

2016 Presidential Election

12357109

Comments

  • This thread was almost worth reading through.
  • Starfox said:

    Alright, so possible answers are "the US citizen", "the illegal immigrant", or "whoever needs it more"? I certainly think there's a right answer.

    Assuming that they both need it equally and they both arrived at exactly the same time, then in all likelihood it comes down to the vagaries of the quantum mechanical underpinnings of the human mind as to who gets treatment. I mean, if they are that desperate for care, odds are there isn't time to check their papers for citizenship status. In the real world, I think these sorts of things are usually administered after care has been applied.

    So yeah, who gets treatment basically comes down to whatever random quantum fluctuation makes the doctor on duty choose the guy on his right or his left.

    (And yes, I know quantum mechanics doesn't work this way, but I'm just using it to illustrate just how random the choice is).
  • The thing is, nuances influence every stance we have and every decision we make. Some of my "other" answers barely fit with my top parties, but they still counted it for something.

    It's also how I managed to not have any goose eggs in my party alignments.

    I know that everyone's positions are nuanced, but allowing individual stances sort of weakens the test. You wind up diluting some of the answers with other positions. Saying "Yes and" is an unnecessary elaboration on the question.

    And, as I said, some of the individual stances really should've been other questions.

  • edited April 2015
    The presidential election is basically moot. The president has pretty limited powers especially when the Congress ignores him (and in the case of Obama it's a mixed bag anyway.) The differences between the parties are minor except in how they phrase the promises that they break.

    Certain important wedge issues that don't affect the bottom line of the insanely wealthy are about all you can change. So great, vote on those issues, but getting real national healthcare, real economic and tax reform, etc, isn't going to happen for a long, long time.

    The idea that greedy, pseudo-Libertarian conservatives are gonna die off and leave us alone any day now has been around for 50 years or more. It's not gonna happen. There are as many greedy bastards in your generation as in mine and in the one before mine, etc.
    Post edited by muppet on
  • Holding on to the idea of waiting for old people to die off won't work because advances in medical care and other life prolonging achievements. The percentage of people 65+ has been increasing for over 80 years in the US. http://www.census.gov/2010census/data/

    We can also expect the 65+ crowd to grow even faster because the baby boomer generation is hitting that mark. http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/births.htm

    The percentage of 65+ people in the US wont see a decline until 2060.
  • edited April 2015
    The Boomers actually are progressively more liberal. We'll probably see a political shift as more people turn 65. As people on this very forum have talked about, their political leanings have not shifted any further right just because they're getting older.
    Post edited by Jack Draigo on
  • image
    I can't believe I agree with so many left-wing talking points that they'd align me with the so-called Republican Party.
  • I'm not saying people are shifting more right as they get older. I was just pointing out that the morbidly humorous sentiment of "Wait until the old people die for political change to happen." is just silly. Polls show people are turning more towards independents as they age, as they feel Democrats and Republicans don't represent them. Though Republicans have lost more in the under 50 crowd.
    image

    Of course this is just people saying what they identify as, with no indication of how they actually vote :/
  • edited April 2015
    It's not silly at all. If we had an election today where only young people were allowed to vote, right wing candidates would have an extremely difficult time winning much of anything. It is true that people are living longer, and that the number of old people will increase. But those specific old people who are right-wing will die and the generations of people after them will run the shit.

    This is how democracy works. Instead of just a single person like a king or dictator holding the power, an entire generation of people holds the power. They are very difficult to unseat because you can't just have a coup or some other nonsense. Thus younger generations are all disenfranchised. The one saving grace is that gradually as that powerful generation passes on, a younger generation begins to take hold.

    This is how things have worked throughout all of history. Though, often times violence has been used to hasten the deaths of the old guard. Violence has also been used to hasten the deaths of the new guard to keep the old guard in power for longer.

    I'll take this opportunity to re-post one of my favorite songs.



    EDIT: Yes, the irony of "The Who" being old and wealthy (or dead) is not lost on anyone.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • I think people underestimate the backlash possible as we approach a minority-majority country.

    Also, the increasing concentration of progressives in urban areas may leave the House out of their hands for a long time.
  • I guess I'm not making myself clear enough. My point is that there will always be old people and just because you don't agree with the current old people doesn't mean anything.

    If people want change we have to work for it. If a movement started that got younger people to vote we could no longer say "Wait until the old people die". The young would just outvote them.

    Saying that "This is how it's always worked" is pointless and never changed anything.
  • I guess I'm not making myself clear enough. My point is that there will always be old people and just because you don't agree with the current old people doesn't mean anything.

    If people want change we have to work for it. If a movement started that got younger people to vote we could no longer say "Wait until the old people die". The young would just outvote them.

    Saying that "This is how it's always worked" is pointless and never changed anything.

    There will always be old people. But we are waiting for these specific currently old people to die. The old people that replace them will be US.
  • Not if we implement Carrousel :-p
  • I'm not saying reddit is a great representative sample necessarily, but I'm always shocked by how many young "Libertarians" are infesting that site. I wonder how many are sock puppets sometimes. If reddit *is* a representative sample of the social, political, and economic views of the 20-summat crowd, then I'm not optimistic at all about the waning of Boomer political influence changing much.
  • I had no idea the US had a Green party but I got 95% because I wanted to work out how off base you the questions were to get the Republican party getting votes.

    The Greens are quite minor in Australia too but they do get seats of power, however they are in no way as strong as the European Green parties.
  • muppet said:

    I'm not saying reddit is a great representative sample necessarily, but I'm always shocked by how many young "Libertarians" are infesting that site. I wonder how many are sock puppets sometimes. If reddit *is* a representative sample of the social, political, and economic views of the 20-summat crowd, then I'm not optimistic at all about the waning of Boomer political influence changing much.

    As always I ask: Where the fuck are you finding these people?
  • muppet said:

    I'm not saying reddit is a great representative sample necessarily, but I'm always shocked by how many young "Libertarians" are infesting that site. I wonder how many are sock puppets sometimes. If reddit *is* a representative sample of the social, political, and economic views of the 20-summat crowd, then I'm not optimistic at all about the waning of Boomer political influence changing much.

    I have a theory that, basically, reddit and tumblr are a good image of what the two parties in the US will look like in twenty years. One libertarian and paying lip service to social progress and the other socialist and actually socially progressive, but also where all the woo people end up.

    Youtube commenters will make up the independents.
  • Apreche said:

    I guess I'm not making myself clear enough. My point is that there will always be old people and just because you don't agree with the current old people doesn't mean anything.

    If people want change we have to work for it. If a movement started that got younger people to vote we could no longer say "Wait until the old people die". The young would just outvote them.

    Saying that "This is how it's always worked" is pointless and never changed anything.

    There will always be old people. But we are waiting for these specific currently old people to die. The old people that replace them will be US.
    So you plan on waiting 30+ years to have any real say in politics? That's just insane.

    I want people to realize they have a voice. Don't just wait for things to happen, do something about it.

    I also don't want people younger than me waiting for me and my generation to die to make a change. Fuck me and my shitty old people ideas in the future, make changes for the better now.
  • Apreche said:

    I guess I'm not making myself clear enough. My point is that there will always be old people and just because you don't agree with the current old people doesn't mean anything.

    If people want change we have to work for it. If a movement started that got younger people to vote we could no longer say "Wait until the old people die". The young would just outvote them.

    Saying that "This is how it's always worked" is pointless and never changed anything.

    There will always be old people. But we are waiting for these specific currently old people to die. The old people that replace them will be US.
    So you plan on waiting 30+ years to have any real say in politics? That's just insane.

    I want people to realize they have a voice. Don't just wait for things to happen, do something about it.

    I also don't want people younger than me waiting for me and my generation to die to make a change. Fuck me and my shitty old people ideas in the future, make changes for the better now.
    It's not possible. The people we are waiting to die off have all the money. Because they have all the money, they have all the power. As long as money is the primary influence in politics, we can't do anything to overcome them. Also, the generation they are a part of has more people than our generation. Their parents had more babies than our parents did, so they outnumber us.

    Yes, I would love to make changes for the better now. If you have any realistic strategies for making that happen, please share. Many people who are much more well educated in the ways of political science than some nerds in a web forum have been working on that problem for longer than we have been alive. I don't know about you, but I do not see any fruits spawning from their labors.
  • Your voice is in the primaries if you have one at all. Waiting for the presidential run off is moot. Similar issue with congressional elections.
  • muppet said:

    Your voice is in the primaries if you have one at all. Waiting for the presidential run off is moot. Similar issue with congressional elections.

    Yeah. If you live in a blue state, as much as you hate to do it, join the Democratic Party. So few people vote in those primaries, you can have a real influence. Take over a splinter of the Dems the same way the tea party took over a splinter of the GOP.

  • My only advice is something I believe others have already said. Get invested in local politics. Try and make change happen at the lower levels of government where more day to day things affect you.

    Doing nothing is the only fruitless thing.
  • My only advice is something I believe others have already said. Get invested in local politics. Try and make change happen at the lower levels of government where more day to day things affect you.

    Doing nothing is the only fruitless thing.

    Oh the wonderful world of Local Politics, Bush league politics, petty family fights, very little ideology, mud slinging at a pre-school level, changing loyalities, people who think they are much bigger than they are.

    It can have it's moments though.

    //Former head of a Local Democratic Party branch.
  • Yeah my small town's politics are depressingly infantile. I still think opting out is worse than dealing with it in the long run, but oh my God is it depressing.
  • muppet said:

    I'm not saying reddit is a great representative sample necessarily, but I'm always shocked by how many young "Libertarians" are infesting that site. I wonder how many are sock puppets sometimes. If reddit *is* a representative sample of the social, political, and economic views of the 20-summat crowd, then I'm not optimistic at all about the waning of Boomer political influence changing much.

    I have a theory that, basically, reddit and tumblr are a good image of what the two parties in the US will look like in twenty years. One libertarian and paying lip service to social progress and the other socialist and actually socially progressive, but also where all the woo people end up.

    Youtube commenters will make up the independents.
    Shit, now you've made me depressed.
  • muppet said:

    I'm not saying reddit is a great representative sample necessarily, but I'm always shocked by how many young "Libertarians" are infesting that site. I wonder how many are sock puppets sometimes. If reddit *is* a representative sample of the social, political, and economic views of the 20-summat crowd, then I'm not optimistic at all about the waning of Boomer political influence changing much.

    I have a theory that, basically, reddit and tumblr are a good image of what the two parties in the US will look like in twenty years. One libertarian and paying lip service to social progress and the other socialist and actually socially progressive, but also where all the woo people end up.

    Youtube commenters will make up the independents.
    Shit, now you've made me depressed.
    Seems legit.

    Is it hard reset time?

    Can it be hard reset time?

  • muppet said:

    I'm not saying reddit is a great representative sample necessarily, but I'm always shocked by how many young "Libertarians" are infesting that site. I wonder how many are sock puppets sometimes. If reddit *is* a representative sample of the social, political, and economic views of the 20-summat crowd, then I'm not optimistic at all about the waning of Boomer political influence changing much.

    I have a theory that, basically, reddit and tumblr are a good image of what the two parties in the US will look like in twenty years. One libertarian and paying lip service to social progress and the other socialist and actually socially progressive, but also where all the woo people end up.

    Youtube commenters will make up the independents.
    Shit, now you've made me depressed.
    Seems legit.

    Is it hard reset time?

    Can it be hard reset time?

    A hard reset on Youtube (wipe the website), or a hard reset on the nation (armed revolution)?
  • muppet said:

    I'm not saying reddit is a great representative sample necessarily, but I'm always shocked by how many young "Libertarians" are infesting that site. I wonder how many are sock puppets sometimes. If reddit *is* a representative sample of the social, political, and economic views of the 20-summat crowd, then I'm not optimistic at all about the waning of Boomer political influence changing much.

    I have a theory that, basically, reddit and tumblr are a good image of what the two parties in the US will look like in twenty years. One libertarian and paying lip service to social progress and the other socialist and actually socially progressive, but also where all the woo people end up.

    Youtube commenters will make up the independents.
    Shit, now you've made me depressed.
    Seems legit.

    Is it hard reset time?

    Can it be hard reset time?

    A hard reset on Youtube (wipe the website), or a hard reset on the nation (armed revolution)?
    Yes, yes, and also on humanity. I think we're broken as a species, and I'm hoping we can fix it before we, like, irrevocably destroy the only home we have.

    Just feeling particularly pessimistic today.

  • It's not an unwarranted perception, unfortunately.

    It's very easy to divide humans into factions over relatively meaningless stuff, and there is a ready supply of people who think it's in their interest to keep doing just that.
Sign In or Register to comment.