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2016 Presidential Election

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  • wow, it's like every conversation I have on Facebook.
  • Ten bucks says someone is trying to fob this off using the fact that Chelsea Clinton is on the board of IAC, the company that owns Collegehumor, before the week is out.
  • This video encapsulates so much of what bothers me about Bernie-or-Bust-ers. They ascribe inaccurate information; state that Clinton's platform is vastly different from Sanders's platform; display unexplained, irrational distrust and hate against Clinton; claim that Sanders is not an "insider;" and blame the DNC for Sanders's presumptive loss; and seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of the parties.


  • Oh god, GMO's mentioned in less than 2 minutes in. But yeah their platforms are pretty similar. Really I think Hillary's is basically what Bernies would end up being after he would inevitably be forced to compromise. But since everyone has to compromise I just worry we'd get even less with Hillary. Always aim high, haggling and all that.
  • I'll admit that I know very little about attack politics, but this is a pretty devastating read of what the Republican attacks on Bernie Sanders would look like if he won the Democratic nomination. I honestly have no idea how much of it is true vs just exaggerated, but the basic premise of the article, that Sanders has such high numbers against the Republican candidates because he hasn't been attacked yet, seems to ring true to me.

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/politics/2016/04/polls_say_bernie_is_more_electable_than_hillary_don_t_believe_them.html
  • Bernie supporters should be ecstatic that they have managed to do so well. That platform resonates. The fact that Bernie is even still in the race (technically) is a huge achievement for progressives and the left.

    He can't win the nomination. But the movement that got him this far is unprecedented. Keep that going, and we're on a track for a productive decade to come.

    Or, you know, just lie down like babies, refuse to vote for Hillary, let Trump take over, and fuck off. Up to you.
  • Rym said:

    Bernie supporters should be ecstatic that they have managed to do so well. That platform resonates. The fact that Bernie is even still in the race (technically) is a huge achievement for progressives and the left.

    He can't win the nomination. But the movement that got him this far is unprecedented. Keep that going, and we're on a track for a productive decade to come.

    Or, you know, just lie down like babies, refuse to vote for Hillary, let Trump take over, and fuck off. Up to you.

    Rym, have you seen the other article in Slate about what Bernie Sanders supporters should do once he loses the nomination? If not, you should. This is probably the best article I've read about the Sanders campaign and should be required reading for anyone who voted for him, or all Democrats generally:

    http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/cover_story/2016/04/there_is_no_bernie_sanders_movement.html
  • I think Bernie's big accomplishment was proving that the huge number of independents he's been saying he speaks for actually exist outside Vermont. He has lead the way for the Democratic Party to gain a huge number of new voters in the coming years.
  • Greg said:

    I think Bernie's big accomplishment was proving that the huge number of independents he's been saying he speaks for actually exist outside Vermont. He has lead the way for the Democratic Party to gain a huge number of new voters in the coming years.

    Only if they continue to engage with, and participate in, politics. Previous election cycles have shown that hasn't been the case and these independent voters tend to evaporate back into the woodwork.
  • Rym said:

    Or, you know, just lie down like babies, refuse to vote for Hillary, let Trump take over, and fuck off. Up to you.

    Or don't show up for the State and local elections in 2017 or the congressional elections in 2018. There's elections every year people!
  • CT primaries are today. I'm unable to vote as my voter registration change form is still in the mail. And in my lovely closed primary state, registered independents are not welcome.
  • Well that's what you get for registering Independent. :P
  • Not mine, but worth sharing.
    I just want to remind everyone of something.

    One of the most loathsome people to ever fucking live on this planet, Ted Cruz, backstabbed and fucked over every person he came in contact with for the past four years, forced his party into a bunch of no-win scenarios that made them look stupid and clueless, and generally called out everyone in his entire party as a bunch of commiesymp Islamolibs who want to dress up as a gay-married woman and fuck a child in a public bathroom. He did all of these things knowingly, burning every bridge he's ever crossed, mauling every hand that's ever fed him, all in service of one dream: He would become the Republican nominee in 2016 and win the Presidency and then the trail of blood and nightmares he left behind wouldn't matter because fuck you I'm POTUS that's why.

    He sacrificed everything to this goal, and he's going to lose by a small number of delegates to the political equivalent of the Fukushima meltdown. His strategy would (probably) have worked! It's pretty clear that the JEB! never stood a chance regardless of how much money he raised because he's a fucking walking Ambien who conservatives thoroughly despise, Scott Walker couldn't even figure out how to hire someone who understood things like "a budget," Ben Carson looks like an attractive candidate up until he has to speak in anything other than meaningless fortune-cookie platitudes, etc. All that work, all that planning, all that treachery, all that time.

    ALL FOR FUCKING NOTHING AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

    He's been reaching for this brass ring his entire life, leaning farther and farther out from his carousel horse. What would he lose first, his balance, or his nerve? But he never flinched, leaning out further and further with each turn of the carousel, and then just before, just before his fingertip brushed it an orange hand came out of nowhere and took that bitch right away from him, right in front of him, and there was never anything he could do to stop it. Now all that's left is the fall.

    There aren't words in any language to describe the joy it brings me to see such a heinous, hateful motherfucker destroyed in such a gut-wrenching, miserable way. Tonight was the beginning of Ted Cruz's descent to a talk radio host saying things like, "Well, when *I* was in the United States Senate, let me tell you..."

    Ted is a mess.
    Ted is a waste.
  • Bernie basically just said he won't get the nomination, and that it's no longer his goal.
  • Rym said:

    Bernie basically just said he won't get the nomination, and that it's no longer his goal.

    That's OK. It's a conspiracy by the Clintons to discredit him. That's why they traveled back in time and had Vince Foster murdered, then buried him in the Whitewater estates.

    Seriously, though, I honestly want him to say something about Secretary Clinton being a good woman who he has a few disagreements with. Maybe (MAYBE) that will shut down some of the crazy bullshit.
  • A lot of salt from Bernie supporters today,

    "Apparently being more concerned with the bank accounts of our monopolized corporations and blood hungry military industrial complex is wholly more important than the health and education of it's citizens. America has spoken, trained to maintain the status quo, willing to set ethics aside in exchange for the promise of chance to suckle at a teat long dry. No longer a country of citizens, but of easily trained and weak willed work force who accept without question that they are slaves to the company store. Mice live on crumbs, dogs on scraps, but in America, we live off the work of others...and we're okay with that. Where is our empathy? Are these really our values? Do you realize the reason you feel the need to continually amass more possessions and wealth is because you know that society does not take good care of the poor? Fear of ending up like "them" drives you to continuously better yourself at the clear expense of those at a lower position than yourself. Doing all this, despite the fact that if true equal and human rights were afforded to everyone, there would be no fear of being left to survive on the scraps and being left to languish would subside, leaving us to focus on the betterment of all, rather than an animalistic drive to horde to survive. The thumbs opposable thumbs and certain advanced cognitive functions shouldn't be our biggest points of difference from the wild kingdom."

    "America, where the truth doesn't matter, where doing the right thing is fine as long as they don't have to change anything, and where you can buy an election. The American dream is a joke and the Democrats and Republicans are only 2 degrees apart when push comes to shove."

    "Watched V for Vendetta (still need to read).
    I find it ironic that the man who owns a Guy Fawkes mask and hangs it prominently in his house is the same one who said that I will have to deal with voting for AND WORKING FOR (his emphasis) Hillary if she's the nominee.
    There is only one nominee for peace."

    "No Hillary, No. You can't continue to push that effing false narrative of "Bernie didn't know how to answer". FUCK YOU.
    No, I'm done with you. You better be ready to pander to the left if you want those votes, cause you do NOT deserve mine."
  • I did a google to find the right image to respond to such salt, and I didn't find the one I'd been looking for but I found one better:
    image
  • Interesting comment by Nate Silver on last week's FiveThirtyEight podcast about caucuses vs primaries. He mentioned that everyone bemoans closed primaries, especially Bernie Sanders supporters, but no one really talks about how undemocratic caucuses are. He says that based on their models, if you changed a caucus to a primary, voter turnout would increase by 2x to 3x and that Hillary would gain an average of 20+ percentage points, and something like 100+ delegates.

    http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/elections-podcast-kasich-and-cruz-are-scheming/
  • I don't like how disconnected the states are in the primary system. State level parties should not have this much autonomy when it comes to an office elected by the entire country. I don't have a strong feeling as to whether they should all be open/closed or primaries vs caucuses, but this mix and match system feels wrong.
  • I still like that plan of abolishing the 50 states and organizing around population centers with shared infrastructure needs. For everything, primaries and actual governance.
  • Rym said:

    I still like that plan of abolishing the 50 states and organizing around population centers with shared infrastructure needs. For everything, primaries and actual governance.

    Yeah, that's great for anyone who isn't a farmer or lives in a rural community...
  • I'd sooner abolish the Union than abolish Federalism.
  • Rym said:

    I still like that plan of abolishing the 50 states and organizing around population centers with shared infrastructure needs. For everything, primaries and actual governance.

    Yeah, that's great for anyone who isn't a farmer or lives in a rural community...
    Hey, it worked great in feudal societies!

    Well.

    For certain values of "great."

    And also "worked."

  • Redrawing the states would be nice so they would have similar populations. Is it really fair for Wyoming to even exist as this point when compared to California?
  • Rym said:

    I still like that plan of abolishing the 50 states and organizing around population centers with shared infrastructure needs. For everything, primaries and actual governance.

    Yeah, that's great for anyone who isn't a farmer or lives in a rural community...
    Those areas were still tied to population centers similar to how they are now. The main difference is that infrastructure can span currently existing state lines.

    Right now, it is basically impossible to build rail transport improvements between New Jersey, New York, and Connecticut. Similar problems exist with the water supplies.

    The argument is that the current borders of states are a major impediment to progress.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/17/opinion/sunday/a-new-map-for-america.html?_r=0
  • I don't think we should redraw the states, but rather rewrite the constitution so they don't actually matter and can't impede things like they can now.
  • Pretty much most of the value of the state governments could easily be replaced by local government at the county or even town level.
  • States play a very important role and I, for one, would never want them to be hobbled in our government.
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