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Immigration
This deserves a new topic. What do you think about the immigration shenanigans that have been going on?
Some summary
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Some summary
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Comments
I have never understood this entire controversy. If it were up to me, our borders would be thrown wide open to anyone who wanted to come to our country seeking opportunity. They are welcome, in my book, as long as they immigrate legally. Are there any really compelling reasons to keep so many stringent restrictions on immigration?
I'm all for legal immigration and it sounds like you are too.
The basic thought behind the controversy is:
Democrats want open borders/lax immigration enforcement because every illegal is a vote for a democrat.
Republicans want open borders/lax immigration enforcement because every illegal is another source of cheap labor.
I believe I've heard that the bill allows for the $5K to be paid in installments, but I'll bet there will still be businesses that specialize in quick loans of this amount.
What do you think about the increase of H1-B visas in the bill?
Perhaps I am naive about this one.
This is one of those, "just enforce the existing laws rather than write new laws," issues.
The problem many people are having is distinguishing legal immigrants and illegal immigrants. Some people just plain don't care that we have laws. If you illegally crossed into Mexico, you'd be put in jail. Here, though, we prosecute border patrol agents who shoot drug runners.
If and only if that can be accomplished, I do think it is reasonable to offer amnesty to those already living here. Simply for the reason that it would be economically devastating to throw them all out.
I really can't understand those who advocate open borders, philosophically I may think it is correct to do so, but pragmatically I feel it is an idiotic proposition. We can't sustain tens of millions or more just waltzing into this country every year who speak different languages and have little education or little respect for our liberal democracy.
Most of the people interested in migrating are from poor nations where social and religious conservatism is still the rule, I shouldn't have to spell out why this would be bad.
If you simply take a moment to consider what would be likely to occur if the US declared that any who wish it can be granted citizenship simply by showing up, it will be obvious why it would be a bad idea.
I can tell you all that from experience an from what I personally now that any immigrant that has the chance to get a green card and eventually the citizenship will take that small chance and stay away from his family a little bit longer, than wait for a "perfect bill". Many are desperate and I also now a bunch that have not seen any members of their families from more than 6 years. These people will get the 5000 dollars penalty that they have to pay from anywhere. I have been there and I know that it is to feel that any day would be your last day, feeling afraid that you would get deported and then not allowed back for another 10 years.
At this point I think they will be happy with anything that is handed to them as long as they eventually get a green card.
The thing about Australia is that is sorrounded by the sea so it is kind of hard to get there eve legally if you do not have enough money, and people from thrid world countries do not have a lot of money.
The problem with it is that there are/will be far too many people straining our health care and education systems in addition to not paying their taxes.
On one hand, making the current illegals citizens will make them pay their taxes. On the other hand, we just let them get away and it may encourage others.
On the illegal immigration issue, I think a good deal of the problem is how we're dealing with the illegals that are caught. Just deporting them tells them that there's not too much risk associated with getting caught. I think what we need to do (cruel as it may sound), is take a much more aggressive stance. Obviously, it's impossible to do in our current society, but I think that putting into place severe consequences will do the trick. If getting caught means death, we aren't going to have as many people trying to get through. Call me a sick, depraved bitch, but announcing that people trying to illegally cross the border will be shot on sight and mines/other traps will be set will be a much bigger deterrent than deportation. The deaths of the few who are stupid enough to ignore this would be a small price to pay for curbing the tide.
Um.....................................
................................ Death? Isn't that a little, you know, crazy? Lacking in compassion? Not fitting the crime? A violation of civil rights? Crazy? Extreme? Messy? A bad international policy move? Totalitarian? Lacking in the whole right to a trial ideal? Crazy?
It's a means to an end. It's more of a deterent than anything. The chance of death will eliminate most would-be illegals. The rest are aware of the risk. We can't exactly throw em' in prison you know. We have more than enough people there, and deporting them hasn't done shit. Right to a trial? All we're doing now is catching and releasing, a move that hasn't helped at all.
No shit, it's extreme, but better a few illegals now than the entire US 20 years from now. Do you realize just what would happen if this is allowed to continue for a prolonged period of time?
I also think that neither the English nor the Americans have the right to even complain about immigration. England is made entirely of immigrants and America has taken everything from its original inhabitants then both became rich destroying the countries people are now emigrating from.
To stop immigration you have to stop emigration. There has to be a reason people are leaving their own country. If they had decent health systems and access to reasonably priced drugs, the various other basic amenities then emigration and therefore imigration would decrease.
Also, immigration is good for a modern countries as there are vast numbers of jobs that cannot be filled because no-one native to the country wants to do them.
One_Sin, not to call you a sick, depraved bitch but you took the route that removed the effects of the problem with greatest ease without thinking of how to remove the problem at the root.
Americans (as a whole) are not against legal immigration, they are against people coming to America illegally. If the first act you make upon entering a country is to break its laws and ignore it sovereignty than you can go home.
I do agree that giving people a reason not to emigrate is a key pillar in dealing with an illegal immigration problem. When you have countries, such as Mexico, printing comic books that tell their people how to illegally enter the USA how do you fight that?
"Hey Pedro, what say we sneak into America today?"
"I don't know Jose, those 50 cal. machine nests look pretty dangerous."
"Would you rather die alone and poor here in Mexico?"
"No, but I also don't want to die riddled full of bullets trying to cross the border illegally!"
Studies have shown that when you have more workers than jobs wages go down. The opposite also holds true.
I suggesting listening to the latest episode of EconTalk, which can be found in the iTunes store. Hank turned me on to it in another thread; it may be a bit dry, but it's very good for an economics podcast. The subject of the latest episode is how American abundance has reshaped the national economy, and why service industries here will keep in tandem with the supply and demand curves while we outsource white-collar jobs.
Why do I feel like a buggy whip maker from 100 years ago?
Of course, my vote is for land mines and ninjas. Even if you are bad ass enough to see the ninjas coming, you can't fight them off AND avoid a claymore or thirty.
And before anyone starts calling me a racist or anything, I have no problem, whatsoever, with legal immigration. Hell, my father and his parents came here from the Azores. How? My grandfather joined the U.S. Navy during WW2 so that his family could come here.
However, when they got here, they learned English damned fast, and it's ridiculous that we are the only country in the world to not have an official language.
What about the recent thing Circuit City did where they fired all their high earners and offered them jobs at the base starting pay?
I agree that a company should be able to fire people for any (unprotected) reason but I also have a problem with out-sourcing jobs to a poor country for a fraction of the cost an American worker gets. It would not be so bad if the American worker could move to that poor country and get their job (with the much lower cost of living) but things don't work that way.
America's economy is entering the next evolution and is becoming a service and intellectual economy. There will be people displaced in the short-term by outsourcing, but there always is. The eco-NIMBYs complained when we converted from agriculture to industry, and again when we converted from blue collar to white collar. Each time, the naysayers have predicting economic devastation, and each time they've been wrong, because people know how to adapt.
Each time people cry for employment protectionism, the smart people decide instead to ride ahead of the demand curve and find the next big thing. The result is a punctuated evolution in goods, services, and technology. You have teh Internets because we went through an economic shift. You're welcome.