You know, it actually really irks me when my friends talk about "rationalism" as if it's something that will cure every problem we have. There's a major problem with that - people aren't purely rational. Relying on people to act according to reason is akin to relying on a pet to not run away when you leave your front door open all the time.
Also, Science and Religion are not fundamentally incompatible, cf. all of science/natural philosophy up to the 19th century.
Guess what: science isn't exempt from being construed into racism. Social Darwinism is just as much of a problem (in my experience, at least) as religious homophobia.
You know, it actually really irks me when my friends talk about "rationalism" as if it's something that will cure every problem we have. There's a major problem with that - people aren't purely rational. Relying on people to act according to reason is akin to relying on a pet to not run away when you leave your front door open all the time.
Also, Science and Religion are not fundamentally incompatible, cf. all of science/natural philosophy up to the 19th century.
We (humanity) understand more than we could have imagined possible a couple thousand years ago. Christianity started around then. In the Europe it was the newest, hottest way to explain things that people are scared of because they don't understand them. War, the origin of everything, plagues, vaginas, you name it; they explained it and reinforced it. Now that we better understand things like vaginas, we're having trouble tearing the old ideas down.
The primary thrust of western religion and spirituality is putting faith in the understanding that the unknown is a comfortable place. They all have some way of saying DON'T PANIC in big friendly letters on the cover. Now we know more, so there's almost nothing to be afraid of, and even what is left to many of us isn't deathly difficult to deal with. Christianity is full of the holes we put in it. Now skepticism, rationalism, realism, and "Science!" are the newest, bestest things out because every real skeptic knows that rationalism proves "Science!".
There's still unknowns, though. And many find ways to fill those unknowns without infringing on the ideas of science and rationalism. Who is right nobody can say, and it's always safest to say "I don't know", but I don't begrudge a modern rationalist Christian or Buddhist his thoughts on the unimaginable.
(this post might not make sense if so please excuse me)
You know, it actually really irks me when my friends talk about "rationalism" as if it's something that will cure every problem we have. There's a major problem with that - people aren't purely rational. Relying on people to act according to reason is akin to relying on a pet to not run away when you leave your front door open all the time.
It's not that we're saying people currently act rational, in fact, you described the whole problem. People SHOULD be acting rational, but they are not, and that's what the comic and most of the forum are saying is the problem.
tl;dr Humans don't do it a lot, but why not act rationally in every situation? If you do in every other situation, then why not in religion? i.e. Faith is not healthy!
Acting rationally isn't always the best thing. Great art often times stems from being illogical, betting against the odds, and doing things that all reasonable thought would say is nearly impossible. If we always acted logically, we would lead very boring lives.
Acting rationally isn't always the best thing. Great art often times stems from being illogical, betting against the odds, and doing things that all reasonable thought would say is nearly impossible. If we always acted logically, we would lead very boring lives.
I definitely don't think that you have to remove logic to test outside it's boundaries. At the end of the day, everything fits to a logical system, even if we don't understand how at the outset.
Also, I think that in most cases, people who remove logic to explore ideas are doing it with the intent of exploring logical boundaries and such. Whereas religion removes logic with the purpose of filling it with God, or the idea of God.
I feel like religion is probably okay as long as your overriding prerogative is, "Pray to god, but row away from the rocks."
Problem is when you row away from the rocks, it was god that saved you, not yourself. >_>
I don't care who the religious people thank when we fix global warming, as long as we fix that shit. You can eat your Sky Cake as long as I have my fucking planet, but don't tell me that the Sky Baker will bake me cake to make up for your fossil fuel addiction killing everything I love.
Feel free to replace "global warming" with whatever ignorance-fueled danger to humanity you like.
I guess I agree with the comic more than I thought. I'd just never be openly hateful about religion, provided it doesn't impact my life. I will acknowledge someone's religious beliefs and let the subject drop, but I don't respect them (the beliefs). Just keep your religion out of anything and everything that impacts me--science, school, my pizza boxes, whatever--and we'll be fine.
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Lin, Andrew [USA] 11:23
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You know, it actually really irks me when my friends talk about "rationalism" as if it's something that will cure every problem we have. There's a major problem with that - people aren't purely rational. Relying on people to act according to reason is akin to relying on a pet to not run away when you leave your front door open all the time.
Also, Science and Religion are not fundamentally incompatible, cf. all of science/natural philosophy up to the 19th century.
The primary thrust of western religion and spirituality is putting faith in the understanding that the unknown is a comfortable place. They all have some way of saying DON'T PANIC in big friendly letters on the cover. Now we know more, so there's almost nothing to be afraid of, and even what is left to many of us isn't deathly difficult to deal with. Christianity is full of the holes we put in it. Now skepticism, rationalism, realism, and "Science!" are the newest, bestest things out because every real skeptic knows that rationalism proves "Science!".
There's still unknowns, though. And many find ways to fill those unknowns without infringing on the ideas of science and rationalism. Who is right nobody can say, and it's always safest to say "I don't know", but I don't begrudge a modern rationalist Christian or Buddhist his thoughts on the unimaginable.
(this post might not make sense if so please excuse me)
tl;dr Humans don't do it a lot, but why not act rationally in every situation? If you do in every other situation, then why not in religion? i.e. Faith is not healthy!
Also, I think that in most cases, people who remove logic to explore ideas are doing it with the intent of exploring logical boundaries and such. Whereas religion removes logic with the purpose of filling it with God, or the idea of God.
Feel free to replace "global warming" with whatever ignorance-fueled danger to humanity you like.
I guess I agree with the comic more than I thought. I'd just never be openly hateful about religion, provided it doesn't impact my life. I will acknowledge someone's religious beliefs and let the subject drop, but I don't respect them (the beliefs). Just keep your religion out of anything and everything that impacts me--science, school, my pizza boxes, whatever--and we'll be fine.