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WoW: The shit-talk stops here.
All right, listen up.
Rym & Scott, you know as much about WoW as Bill O'Reilly knows about social reform, and you treat the subject the same way.
You have rejected repeated callouts to back up your opinions, lest you be labelled shit-talkers.
No matter how many times I let go of my frustration and drop it, you keep bringing it back up like it fucked your mom and bragged about it.
The shit-talk stops here.
You have 4 choices:
*Have an episode where you interview someone who actually knows what they're talking about
*Take Pete up on his offer and play his character, or mine, or, for the asking, I will buy you an account for you to play on, and play the game for a reasonable length of time
*Just drop it and respect those who do know and care by not voicing unfounded opinions
*Be shit-talkers, as the entire forum community is your witness
I don't really care. I've learned to tune out your random assaults on the game that fall in the middle of otherwise good podcasts. I don't play it currently, and don't have that much invested in it at the moment. I'm honest when I say I'm standing up for integrity in...let's call it journalism, or at least let's call it a respected one-sided opinion forum. I'm not going to bring it up (though I may respond to others when they bring it up, from time to time), because it never makes for good discussion.
But step up once and for all, or forever be shit-talkers.
I'm callin' you out. (for like the 5th time)
Rym & Scott, you know as much about WoW as Bill O'Reilly knows about social reform, and you treat the subject the same way.
You have rejected repeated callouts to back up your opinions, lest you be labelled shit-talkers.
No matter how many times I let go of my frustration and drop it, you keep bringing it back up like it fucked your mom and bragged about it.
The shit-talk stops here.
You have 4 choices:
*Have an episode where you interview someone who actually knows what they're talking about
*Take Pete up on his offer and play his character, or mine, or, for the asking, I will buy you an account for you to play on, and play the game for a reasonable length of time
*Just drop it and respect those who do know and care by not voicing unfounded opinions
*Be shit-talkers, as the entire forum community is your witness
I don't really care. I've learned to tune out your random assaults on the game that fall in the middle of otherwise good podcasts. I don't play it currently, and don't have that much invested in it at the moment. I'm honest when I say I'm standing up for integrity in...let's call it journalism, or at least let's call it a respected one-sided opinion forum. I'm not going to bring it up (though I may respond to others when they bring it up, from time to time), because it never makes for good discussion.
But step up once and for all, or forever be shit-talkers.
I'm callin' you out. (for like the 5th time)
Comments
Anyway, I would love to hear the WoW episode and will make sure to gather my WoW peoples.
These things are obvious to someone who hasn't even played. It is a shitty game by it's very design.
WoW is good for one thing as far as I'm concerned, and that is funny machinima on YouTube of dancing avatars. Granted, we do have WoW free trials, and we will play them one day. However, as all evidence suggests that this game is a waste of time, and time is not something we have an excess of, don't expect it anytime soon.
Take a deep breath. One can know about the game without having played it. Scott is right. It's a MUD. If you've played MUDs and have read about WOW, then you know what to expect.
What everyone agrees on is that WOW involves a whole lot of grinding. That in and of itself takes away any desire I have to play it. Why do I have to play it when I already know that I don't want to grind? That's like saying you have to shoot yourself in the foot to know that it will be painful.
If you enjoy it, that's great. For some people, I suspect that it's an awesome game. Where any game becomes bad is when it starts to take away from other parts of your life. If you lose personal relationships, if your job performance is affected, etc. I'm sure that's not the case with you. So if you like it, more power to you. However, that doesn't mean that everyone should enjoy it. Variety is the spice of life.
Anyhow, as Pete (whaleshark) said, I don't believe that Rym or Scott will actually like the game or say anything unexpected about it. Rym has played a MMORPG in the past and understands the draw, but like fighting anime shows, everyone gets one in his opinion and once you've played one you've seen them all. As for Scott Rubin, you really shouldn't care what Scott has to say when he doesn't like something. This is the same guy who won't climb a mountain that is right next to his house, because he's climbed a mountain 15 years ago and says they are all the same. (I would like a show talking about this theory on a thursday) He also doesn't like anything Sci-fi that takes place in space unless it's specifically mecha anime or it's cowboy bebop. (I mean he didn't like Firefly, BSG or numerous other quality shows that rose above the genre) Everyone has different tastes and Scott definitely has "varied" tastes. The only time you should actually listen to Scott is when he likes something, because usually he likes things that are actually quite good. Just don't always trust what he says when he doesn't like something because he is coming at the topic as being one hell of a jaded son of a bitch.
So honestly, go play Wow with Dave on Yesra or on Lethon with some of the FRC, if you like wow. If you don't, continue to talk and disparage it, it gives me something to read and argue about. ^_^ But stop calling Rym and Scott out to review WoW, Other then a few of you who are calling for it noone else cares, it will be a pretty boring show.
Let's be honest, though. The real reason that Scott does not like WOW is because he would have to interact with female characters.
Ah it amuses me that a good majority of the females are actually guys... >>;
Scrym has been shit talkers on other occasions, but it's no big thing.
In the end, if you enjoy the game, play it. If people don't want to play it, don't call them out. It doesn't really give them any more incentive to want to play.
Plus I can only imagine Scott rolling Female Night Elf and just doing nothing but /dance for his entire experience of WoW. ^_~
Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And everyone is entitled to decide which opinions they will respect, and which opinions they will not respect. However, choosing to only respect someone's opinion on a very time consuming experience if they have consumed most of that experience is shortsighted. Think about it. Who in their right mind will sit through most of One Piece? Only two kinds of people. People who like One Piece, and people who hate it, but are masochists. If you decide that the only opinion of WoW you will respect is the opinion of someone who has invested a zillion hours into it, you will not get many contrary opinions. The only contrary opinion you will get are from people who are crazy and spent a zillion hours doing something they did not enjoy, and were not required to do.
We discussed this on the show last night, but it needs reiterating. Do not try to tell me that my opinion is invalid because I haven't given something enough of a chance. There are good things out there which are good immediately. They provide pleasure and intellectual stimulation within seconds of experiencing them. It is true that there are some things which only pay off after a significant investment. However, because of that investment those things are automatically worse than other things which pay off immediately. There are enough things out there that provide immediate payoff, that I can delegate all things requiring investment to the trash bin.
If you really want to get an idea for the way I think, try this. First, pretend that you have enough money to buy whatever video games, comic books, etc. that you want. If its available on Amazon, it's yours. Now, pretend that you only have one hour each day to enjoy these things. What will you do? Will you play Phoenix Wright? Guitar Hero? Read Spider-Man? Watch two anime episodes? What will you do. Sure, you can mix it up, but you have to be incredibly discriminating. Every minute you spend doing something that sucks is a loss. When you experience this kind of life, you will more easily realize the poor investment MUDs and MMORPGs are.
You are free to enjoy whatever you like but objectively WoW is a bad game.
You imply that it's a bad thing that people do what they want, why? If people want to spend their time playing WoW, that's their prerogative. I'm not going to play baby sitter and tell them whats good and bad for them. Why should we force our views of a "good/bad" games on others and try to stop them? We shouldn't; we should allow people to play what games they want, no matter what our opinions are of the games.
Just providing feedback. I'm not saying you should stop doing what you're doing, just saying. Some people have issues listening to opinions opposing theirs on a regular basis.
If the actual process of interacting with a game is not enjoyable then the game is bad.
You say that game mechanics that don't do something new every time are essential poor game mechanics. This is flawed logic, just because something is old doesn't mean that is has poor game mechanics and just because something is new doesn't make it inherently better than previous mechanics. Would you say that Go is a shit game because the mechanics are old (it originates back to the 5th century BC)? No! They are just different. You are trying to place an objective description upon an entity which is entirely subjective. You may not have fun playing certain style of game, and let's be honest, not everyone enjoys playing all the different types of styles. The game is fun for a lot of people, not everyone, but a significant portion of the gaming community.
If people didn't have fun playing Wow, they would stop. To say anything otherwise is ignorant (Unless of course they are addicted, in which case I default to my previous statement).
The puzzles aren't quite as complex as those in, say, Portal, but they're still interesting to some degree.
Arena PvP in WoW, I'm starting to realize, is actually the EXACT same game as Team Fortress 2. Really. It's the same rock/paper/scissors team-based dynamic, except that each class has more tactical options available to them than do the classes in TF2. That's really the main reason I want Rym to try out my warrior; I'd like him to weigh in on this observation, to spark further discussion on the issue.
You don't have to level a character to 70 to get the full game experience. Grind a few levels and you understand grinding for the rest of the game. Run a couple of higher-level dungeons and you get dungeons. Do a 10-man and a 25-man raid and you get the puzzle solving raids. The only part of the game that really involves skill and playing is the PvP, and that's less individual skill and more team-based dynamics, as I mentioned earlier.
My contention is that if you have fun in TF2, you can have fun with some parts of WoW as well, particularly the arenas.
EDIT: Omnutia: You can say that amassing stats is trivial, or that the style of an MMO is a poor game, but fundamentally, all video games suck. Super Mario Brothers, for example, is a timing game; push the button at the right time a whole bunch and you win. How is that different from WoW? Pretty much every game ever made is an objectively bad game; the important factor is how much fun you have with it, and claiming otherwise is intellectually dishonest.
Sadly, I'm not really enjoying TF2 anymore, what with the low skill caps and simple play...
Ask yourself, Is the act of playing the game play fun? Is the actual act of moving a character around, selecting attacks, hitting things, etc.. fun?
If you play a game not for the enjoyment of playing it but for the reward that could be given to you anyway without you having to play the game then the game itself is not fun and thus a bad game. This I believe to be true with WoW. Would you also say this is correct and if not for what reason? Because tennis and pong are utterly indistinguishable. But this I think is where you don't understand me. The actual bit where you do interacting in WoW with the game is incredibly boring. Do you exact enjoyment from actually playing? not what events you participate in but how you actually play the game? This isn't a loaded question; I just want to know.
I haven't played TF2 in weeks.
I still enjoy TF2 myself.