I think he was hating on Maria-Sama ga Miteru because Clarissa was reviewing it. The only good visual novel out there is the latest Black Jack DS game. I have not played but is Black Jack and there for is the win. :P Moe is a weird term and I do not get it. I guess it depends on the people and the situation it is used. Because I have heard stuff like "That is moe"and "I go moe for ..."
Those are just his personal tastes. I don't think it enough to discredit him just because he hates YOUR favorite show. Would you hate Rym and Scott the same if they didn't like Maria-Sama ga Miteru?
I wouldn't push my luck if I were them, it's bad enough they don't like Akagi. In seriousness, Marimite is one of those shows that comes so close to being objectively good in terms of character development that I'd have a hard time taking the person seriously.
Moe...does...suck. I'm sorry for saying that but I never ran into one that has a good story. (the animation is bomb though)
No, you're missing the point. Surat actively uses this element as an excuse to be dismissive of an anime. It should be obvious why this is wrong. Look no further than Potemayo and Seto no Hanayome. What do they have in common? They both had strong moe elements; Potemayo was a living moeblob, for shit's sake! They were also two awesome comedy anime. In fact, I'd rank Potemayo as one of, if not, the greatest comedy anime ever. One of the few that's genuinely connected with me and actually made me laugh. It takes universally understandable slapstick comedy and executes it to perfection. You could probably show it to non-anime fans and they'd "get it." Would have had such a great time if I had Surat's mentality?
That's not the worst of it. He actively attempts to find "the evil spectre of moe (his words)" in places it doesn't exist. Thinking Marimite is a "moe show" is proof positive of stupidity.
Out of touch? Fuck no. This guy is living Madarame when it comes to anime. He does know what's up.
No, not really. I'd trust Anonymous first.
AWO's reviews are so in depth and excellent I recommend them first for anime podcasts or reviews. they're way is something people should strive to be a bit like.
I will give them this, although I think the reviews suffer from what most anime reviews do: too much plot summarization not enough insight or analysis.
There's no such thing as objective bad or good art. If you think otherwise, you are wrong.
Moe may not objectively be bad art, but I don't think I can respect someone who enjoys moe seriously. I have never met someone who honestly liked the moe who was not also a scary fanboy person lacking the social skills. I've also never met a cool respectable sociable anime fan who does like the moe. I've met lots of anime fans.
If your taste differs so much from ours, why are you listening to our reviews? Go find some other reviewer with taste similar to your own, and they will better serve you. Maybe you just have more fun trolling.
There's no such thing as objective bad or good art. If you think otherwise, you are wrong..
R>C>P ... I said "comes so to being objectively good."
I have never met someone who honestly liked the moe who was not also a scary fanboy person lacking the social skills. I've also never met a cool respectable sociable anime fan who does like the moe. I've met lots of anime fans.
I don't think I can respect someone who employs anecdotal arguments seriously.
If your taste differs so much from ours, why are you listening to our reviews?
I need audio content. I also enjoy listening to people who may not agree with me and discussing it.
Go find some other reviewer with taste similar to your own, and they will better serve you.
Potemayo is just plain creepy. The end of the line is that moe sells and anime is an industry. Once people get tired of moe it will eventually end and move to the next thing. And the next thing will be even scarier I am so glad Koi Kaze was not super popular.
I know none of the anime you speak off Reimu, so I can't judge, but will agree with the few other members here. Potemayo looks creepy. But, this is moe. Moetan to be precise. Moe is to lolicon as softcore porn is to normal/hardcore porn.
No, not really. I'd trust Anonymous first.
He is anonymous. You are anonymous. Everyone is anonymous. We are everyone, and we are no one. Or whatever the entire chant is. If I could only find that one... *continues searching*
Daryl Surat is the king of the internets.
David Riley could beat up Daryl Surat in an internet fight.
I'd pay to see that.
>_> <_< I say Joel wins. Solely based on the fact that I think Joel is more awesome then Dave. Though Dave and Daryl are on the same awesome level imo. *shrugs*
I don't know...I'm going to have to agree with Chrono. What do you find so endearing about it, anyway?
Plot Summary: Sunao Moriyama finds a strange but cute creature in his refrigerator that he names Potemayo. Potemayo starts following him everywhere, usually riding on top of his head. His discovery becomes the center of attention in his class at school. Soon after, a similar creature appears, and is named Guchuko by one of Sunao's classmates. However, Guchuko doesn't seem to be as good-natured as Potemayo.
That plot seems terrible. I have to ask why you find it endearing as well.
Plus of course like the way you feel for Daryl you'll really hate me for my comment eh? Because nobody can have a differing opinion on moe or stuff you like without being hated on eh?
>_> <_< I say Joel wins. Solely based on the fact that I think Joel is more awesome then Dave. Though Dave and Daryl are on the same awesome level imo. *shrugs*</p>
That plot seems terrible. I have to ask why you find it endearing as well.
R>C>P "In fact, I'd rank Potemayo as one of, if not, the greatestcomedyanime ever."
Wait, so you're saying that the plot of a comedy anime is irrelevant? And endearing according to dictionary.com means "tending to make dear or beloved." I say that fits your love for Potemayo.
Also, quoting etiquette exists here along side the grammar and spelling rules.
Commonly, the plot just serves to provide the setting for gags to take place.
I'm sorry to destroy the little world that you live in, but that approach to animation was blown out of the water in the 1920's and 30's by Disney. Plot is not just something to push the jokes.
Commonly, the plot just serves to provide the setting for gags to take place.
I'm sorry to destroy the little world that you live in, but that approach to animation was blown out of the water in the 1920's and 30's by Disney. Plot is not just something to push the jokes.
I have to agree with Reimu on the part that having elements of "moe" doesn't necessarily condemn a show or manga to crap. Lucky Star for example is very much a worthwhile show although the look and a few moe characters in it. The bad happens when the show exploits a character for the moe kind of characteristics and it becomes the focus.
Anyways, while I have never heard anything from Daryl Surat saying about "moe means the show is crap", I think he sometimes takes it a little bit to far, even for comedy's sake.
I would also like to say something about the "deus ex machina" argument. I am also not a friend of sudden and unexpected plot twists, but I think that Scrym are taking this a little to far. Not every "technique" that is made is really a "deus ex machina" as most shonen fighting shows give the viewer an entire new set of surroundings and characters that are often rather outlandish and part of the fun is to explore these elements. This is basically true for any fictional story of any kind.
Of course, foreshadowing or at least taking logical steps is a better way to propel a scene or part of the story, but there isn't always need or an opportunity for that. Just flatly stating what a character can do is neither interesting nor always possible or would take out the surprise element that is sometimes needed.
This should be common sense. Commonly, the plot just serves to provide the setting for gags to take place.
Exactly. It's not irrelevant. If the plot sounds horrible, the show jokes are building on something pathetic and are not funny. Seinfeld's plot was just a bunch of friends living in the same city and their lives. Also, Seinfeld is not animation the last time I checked. What was that acronym you were using? Oh yes, Read > Comprehend > Post.
Though I wonder why you value just reading over actually comprehending. I can see why posting is the lowest. Posts tend to be void of content, hence why there's a rule against that.
*stares in the distance* I still don't see the irony. Neither do I see the basis of a comedy in a cute good natured blob and a cute bad natured blob riding on people's heads. Besides the blobs falling off of course. Besides that, don't ask me why Viga thinks it seems to be terrible.
I can't say anything one way or the other about Potemayo, not having seen it. A lot of great stories sound really bad or hokey from just their plot description, and some really interesting ideas that would sound great in a plot blurb fail because of poor execution. Thus, I can't tell anything about Potemayo's quality from just the plot blurb. The least I can tell is that it would appeal to some (like Reimu) and not to others (like Viga). Weren't we all just talking about personal preference a little while ago? Why are people back to trying to pin down a show as objectively good or bad?
The whole moe thing is a huge can of worms that I don't want to get into too much depth on. ^^;; In my personal view, I think that the shows most people would define as "moe" tend to carry some very bad/disturbing elements and trends such as objectification of women and implications of sexualizing minors, and tend to have a creepy fanbase (not entirely, mind you; I actually have met sane people who like moe shows). But despite those things, for whatever reason, I kinda like the aesthetic style of a lot of moe shows and characters. Call me crazy, but I really like unique uniform designs and maid costumes. Because they're pretty. Also, I like some female moe show characters for their character design and personalities; Misuzu from Air is my big favourite. ...Yeah, watch my credibility sail right out the window there. XD;;
BTW, Reimu, I don't see how you can say that Daryl Surat is fail for having a different opinion than yours, and then turn right around and say that you shouldn't be derided on this forum for having a different opinion from the majority of the people in the thread. Not saying I disagree with your position as a whole, just pointing out this one seeming contradiction.
As for Surat himself: I personally enjoy listening to him a lot, because I happen to like his sense of humour. I know that he genuinely dislikes moe, but I get the impression that the level to which he expresses that dislike is intentionally hammed up to a point way above his actual level of distaste. Why? For the sake of lulz. If you doubt that, I suggest you go to the following Answerman column, scroll down to the "Hey, Answerfans!" section, and read Daryl's answer to the question "What do you think of 'moe' anime? Is the phenomenon a good or bad thing for the anime fandom?"
It contains his basic stance on the issue, but the answer as a whole cannot possibly be taken entirely seriously. It's too obviously trying to use exaggeration for the sake of humour.
Omg. I CAN NOT STAND HER. The most annoying character i have ever seen in an anime. I cringe at the sight of her. She is pretty much the epitome of everything i hate in a woman. AIr was alright but it was ruined for me with all the homosexuality going on.
Call me crazy, but I really like unique uniform designs and maid costumes.
Very fine and respectacle tastes.
BTW, Reimu, I don't see how you can say that Daryl Surat is fail for having a different opinion than yours, and then turn right around and say that you shouldn't be derided on this forum for having a different opinion from the majority of the people in the thread.
The circumstances are a bit different since I was responding to Apreche accusing me of trolling.
It contains his basic stance on the issue, but the answer as a whole cannotpossiblybe taken entirely seriously. It's too obviously trying to use exaggeration for the sake of humour.
Oh, so he's the troll (or unfunny, whichever's worse) then. Good thing we got this issue wrapped up; I take my e-reputation very seriously.
Omg. I CAN NOT STAND HER. The most annoying character i have ever seen in an anime. I cringe at the sight of her. She is pretty much the epitome of everything i hate in a woman. AIr was alright but it was ruined for me with all the homosexuality going on.
Aheheh, diff'rent strokes for diff'rent folks, I guess. I find her cute and I love her design. You don't. Let's leave it at that. ^^;;
It contains his basic stance on the issue, but the answer as a whole cannot possibly be taken entirely seriously. It's too obviously trying to use exaggeration for the sake of humour.
Oh, so he's the troll (or unfunny, whichever's worse) then. Good thing we got this issue wrapped up; I take my e-reputation very seriously.
I never accused you of being a troll, and I don't think Daryl was being one either. o_O You're defending your opinion on an issue, and Daryl's moe crusades are played up for the sake of making people laugh and, in the process of laughing, also getting them agree with him on the "moe = bad" side of things (the main points of which I mostly agree with him on, personally, but like I said, I also like a lot of moe design aesthetics). I don't think either one of those things constitutes trolling. Trolling tends to be far less intelligible and meant to make people angry and annoyed.
Daryl's moe crusades are played up for the sake of making people laugh and, in the process of laughing, also getting them agree with him on the "moe = bad" side of things
While I totally agree with Daryl's stance on Moe, I have heard him say in a podcast "This is a good show despite it's moe undertones" to a few shows in the past so you can't say he will bad mouth a show and not like it just because of the moe in it. He has liked shows that have aspects of Moe in it but distinctly dislikes shows that overflow with it. The way I see it a very reasoned opinion especially since Moe has worked so hard to destroy anime.
II never accused you of being a troll, and I don't think Daryl was being one either. o_O You're defending your opinion on an issue, and Daryl's moe crusades are played up for the sake of making people laugh and, in the process of laughing, also getting them agree with him on the "moe = bad" side of things (the main points of which I mostly agree with him on, personally, but like I said, I also like a lot of moe design aesthetics). I don't think either one of those things constitutes trolling. Trolling tends to be far less intelligible and meant to make people angry and annoyed.
I have heard him say in a podcast "This is a good show despite it's moe undertones" to a few shows in the past
Like I said, it's not like I've heard a lot of him but I can give him credit for that. I still dislike his attitude amongst the other reasons I stated.
Comments
Moe is a weird term and I do not get it. I guess it depends on the people and the situation it is used. Because I have heard stuff like "That is moe"and "I go moe for ..."
In seriousness, Marimite is one of those shows that comes so close to being objectively good in terms of character development that I'd have a hard time taking the person seriously. No, you're missing the point. Surat actively uses this element as an excuse to be dismissive of an anime. It should be obvious why this is wrong. Look no further than Potemayo and Seto no Hanayome. What do they have in common? They both had strong moe elements; Potemayo was a living moeblob, for shit's sake! They were also two awesome comedy anime. In fact, I'd rank Potemayo as one of, if not, the greatest comedy anime ever. One of the few that's genuinely connected with me and actually made me laugh. It takes universally understandable slapstick comedy and executes it to perfection. You could probably show it to non-anime fans and they'd "get it." Would have had such a great time if I had Surat's mentality?
That's not the worst of it. He actively attempts to find "the evil spectre of moe (his words)" in places it doesn't exist. Thinking Marimite is a "moe show" is proof positive of stupidity. No, not really. I'd trust Anonymous first. I will give them this, although I think the reviews suffer from what most anime reviews do: too much plot summarization not enough insight or analysis.
They always do.
Moe may not objectively be bad art, but I don't think I can respect someone who enjoys moe seriously. I have never met someone who honestly liked the moe who was not also a scary fanboy person lacking the social skills. I've also never met a cool respectable sociable anime fan who does like the moe. I've met lots of anime fans.
If your taste differs so much from ours, why are you listening to our reviews? Go find some other reviewer with taste similar to your own, and they will better serve you. Maybe you just have more fun trolling.
I am so glad Koi Kaze was not super popular.
Plus of course like the way you feel for Daryl you'll really hate me for my comment eh? Because nobody can have a differing opinion on moe or stuff you like without being hated on eh?
"In fact, I'd rank Potemayo as one of, if not, the greatest comedy anime ever."
Also, quoting etiquette exists here along side the grammar and spelling rules.
Anyways, while I have never heard anything from Daryl Surat saying about "moe means the show is crap", I think he sometimes takes it a little bit to far, even for comedy's sake.
I would also like to say something about the "deus ex machina" argument. I am also not a friend of sudden and unexpected plot twists, but I think that Scrym are taking this a little to far. Not every "technique" that is made is really a "deus ex machina" as most shonen fighting shows give the viewer an entire new set of surroundings and characters that are often rather outlandish and part of the fun is to explore these elements. This is basically true for any fictional story of any kind.
Of course, foreshadowing or at least taking logical steps is a better way to propel a scene or part of the story, but there isn't always need or an opportunity for that. Just flatly stating what a character can do is neither interesting nor always possible or would take out the surprise element that is sometimes needed.
Though I wonder why you value just reading over actually comprehending. I can see why posting is the lowest. Posts tend to be void of content, hence why there's a rule against that.
Of course, I'm still trying to out what is so "horrible" or "terrible" about the plot.
The whole moe thing is a huge can of worms that I don't want to get into too much depth on. ^^;; In my personal view, I think that the shows most people would define as "moe" tend to carry some very bad/disturbing elements and trends such as objectification of women and implications of sexualizing minors, and tend to have a creepy fanbase (not entirely, mind you; I actually have met sane people who like moe shows). But despite those things, for whatever reason, I kinda like the aesthetic style of a lot of moe shows and characters. Call me crazy, but I really like unique uniform designs and maid costumes. Because they're pretty. Also, I like some female moe show characters for their character design and personalities; Misuzu from Air is my big favourite. ...Yeah, watch my credibility sail right out the window there. XD;;
BTW, Reimu, I don't see how you can say that Daryl Surat is fail for having a different opinion than yours, and then turn right around and say that you shouldn't be derided on this forum for having a different opinion from the majority of the people in the thread. Not saying I disagree with your position as a whole, just pointing out this one seeming contradiction.
As for Surat himself: I personally enjoy listening to him a lot, because I happen to like his sense of humour. I know that he genuinely dislikes moe, but I get the impression that the level to which he expresses that dislike is intentionally hammed up to a point way above his actual level of distaste. Why? For the sake of lulz. If you doubt that, I suggest you go to the following Answerman column, scroll down to the "Hey, Answerfans!" section, and read Daryl's answer to the question "What do you think of 'moe' anime? Is the phenomenon a good or bad thing for the anime fandom?"
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/answerman/2007-09-14
It contains his basic stance on the issue, but the answer as a whole cannot possibly be taken entirely seriously. It's too obviously trying to use exaggeration for the sake of humour.
Tenchi, thanks for that, awesome post from Daryl. XD I wish I knew more of the references he put in there. *subscribes to ANN*