I don't think he deserves to be banned, since he contributes to other discussions throughout the forum.
I agree with most of this. I think he needs to calm down a bit, but other than that, I think this is just a case where his opinion is different. That's not, I think, worth a ban.
All I will say is that Azumanga Daioh porn is a problem. Those girls are in high-school, and it's even worse with Chiyo-chan. If you think there's nothing wrong with someone who gets off to that, don't expect much respect.
I'm intensely against banning someone just because I don't agree with them. I don't think he has proven himself to be a complete detriment. After all, most of us don't agree with the religious people in this forum, and they aren't banned. And in most cases they contribute valuably in other areas.
Although it may be too quick to ban, I still think that deleting previous posts so that they can't be used against you is inexcusable.
Although it may be too quick to ban, I still think that deleting previous posts so that they can't be used against you is inexcusable.
I'm not hiding anything. I just wanted to make sure I got my message across clearly. I stand by everything I said (especially since I brought it all up again.)
Scott, I'm not sure that anyar has seen Azumanga Daioh, so he/she may not have realized that the characters were that young.
I have seen it, I'm just saying that there's just nothing wrong with porn of it specifically. Loli/Kiddy porn is no good anywhere, and people who like it are scary, but your argument seemed to be (at the time I was typing, rereading your previous post now puts it into perspective) that any porn related to Azumanga was worse than any other porn(It's also worth noting that a good portion of Azumanga porn that I've seen involves the teachers anyway, probably because I avoided /b/).
I stand by everything I said (especially since I brought it all up again.)
Then why did you feel the need to delete everything you said? [Edit]
In the end, Scott is doing nothing more than trying to push a specific social agenda. He feels that pedophiles should be looked down upon and thus feels threatened by things he feels will lead to their acceptance.
Wow. I totally hadn't read this post. You're talking like a conspiracy theorist. Maybe you don't deserve the (however little) respect I gave you in my last post.
I stand by everything I said (especially since I brought it all up again.)
Then why did you feel the need to delete everything you said?
... because I replied in a jumbled and dis-jointed fashion that's really didn't lend itself to a coherent argument and I wanted to clear up any misunderstandings there might be. I found my previous post didn't accurately represent what I felt. It was your replies that prompted it, you know, so don't complain. (emoticon to reinforce jovial nature of previous comment here)
Wow. I totally hadn't read this post.
Tsk, tsk. A shameful habit. ^_~
You're talking like a conspiracy theorist. Maybe you don't deserve the (however little) respect I gave you in my last post.
Ha, ha. I'm last person on the Earth who would espouse conspiracry theories. I was just attempting to deconstruct the argument before me.
He feels that pedophiles should be looked down upon and thus feels threatened by things he feels will lead to their acceptance.
What's wrong with that? Pedophiles are not good people and should not be accepted by society, just like murderers and rapists.
KnJ does push the envelope of what is acceptable in a commercially published manga and thus it becomes a target.
Scott has stated that he supports the rights of the people who create and read this sort of manga, but he does not support them on a personal level, which is totally acceptable. It's not that he wants the buying and selling of this sort of manga to be illegal, it's just that he dislikes the people who do buy and sell this sort of manga because they are fantasizing about something illegal and sick.
have seen it, I'm just saying that there's just nothing wrong with porn of it specifically. Loli/Kiddy porn is no good anywhere, and people who like it are scary, but your argument seemed to be (at the time I was typing, rereading your previous post now puts it into perspective) that any porn related to Azumanga was worse than any other porn(It's also worth noting that a good portion of Azumanga porn that I've seen involves the teachers anyway, probably because I avoided /b/).
Cleary there is worse porn that Azumanga porn. I'm sure there is porn involving the teachers, and I guess while I wouldn't go for that, it's not pedophilia. However, most Azumanga porn I imagine is of the lolicon nature. It does exist, and people do like it.
Humanity had surprised me so many times. Its tastes have changed through time. For an instance a long time ago men enjoyed the company of relatively large women. Some Asian cultures would arrange their youth to marry at a very early age. I must say that one time a Japanese friend of my showed me a picture of her girlfriend without me knowing that the person from that picture was her girlfriend. At first glance I said "Hey, is that your 12 year old cousin? " and he looked at me and told me "She is my girlfriend and she is 17". My friend was kind of short so I was surprised of how young a 17 year old girl can look in japan. I think that all living things must be treated with respect. Pedophiles are sick, and they must be treated with the respect a sick person must have.
I also took issue with Scott's question of "Why is it worth watching a show that is "half-good?"" I feel that certain elements of a show usually overshadow others and that even if you dislike some things, the payoff can be worth greatly your time (even more so than a show that's supposedly "all-good")
Wait, I don't see that one. You're saying that if I watch an anime I think is half-good will be worth more of my time then an all-good anime? Lets take an example, Cowboy Bebop, an anime with great art, a great story, great characters, great music, great action, in short all-good. And on the other side Suzumiya Haruhi no Yuutsu. An almost-all-good anime, great art, great story/stories, great characters, if we don't count Mikuru, etc. You're saying that SHnY will give me a payoff worth more then Cowboy Bebop? No, after marathoning Cowboy Bebop I would go "Oh man, that was so awesome!" whereas SHnY would make me go "Oh man, what was awesome, too bad it had that annoying Mikuru in it." Both are still great anime, but Cowboy Bebop's payoff is worth more of my time then SHnY's payoff. I'd be more likely to watch Cowboy Bebop 100 times then SHnY.
It is up to the community if banning should occur or not. We will do as you say.
Wait... WHAT? Even if your accusation of Reimu being a scary pervert is true. As long as he's not annoying the hell out of forum members or shoving all that sort of porn up to our noses and contributes to the forum, I see no problems. Though I must say picking out Scott's posts just for nitpicking, and, as Sail said, not providing reasons as to why he disagrees is kind of annoying imho. Besides that nothing bad has been done yet.
On the subject of banning Reimu I have to say no for now. Although character like that piss me off a bit I see no big reason for court marshalling her/him.
I predicted that this subject would come up the minute he answered with the words "to fap."
There is nothing wrong with Azumanga Daioh porn. You're just against hentai in general, and more so against Azumanga hentai because it's taking something that you like and using it to make something you find offensive.
I guess if your a 14 year old there would be nothing wrong with watching Azumanga Daioh Porn that was drawn by a sub 21 year old person. However it is a bit creepy that Azumanga Daioh porn (not involving the teachers) is probably drawn and written by some 40 year old guy. Ugh. I'm still waiting for a outbreak of pedophiles to start causing real trouble at conventions.
But really, I guess I would rather people who have pedophile leanings to be satisfied by watching a show then trying to go out and satisfy those urges in reality.. I liked it a whole lot better when I only had to defend anime from people who thought it was all demon-tenacle rape, instead of creapy pedophile material as well.
But really, I guess I would rather people who have pedophile leanings to be satisfied by watching a show then trying to go out and satisfy those urges in reality.
Or is it that exposure to this stuff is actually creating more pedos?
Or is it that exposure to this stuff is actually creating more pedos?
That's a good question, however having been exposed to a lot of demon rape in 80's and 90's anime I can say I do not find it sexually attractive. (maybe it's because I don't have tentacles?). I've also watched all of the show "Queer as folk" and I don't seem to find my attraction to men has increased. (it's already sooo high ^_-) Isn't this line of thinking going to bring us up to where the argument as to whether "grand theft auto" makes you want to kill hookers and steal cars is already at? (where we say people who have a tendency towards being violent maybe influenced by the media but they were probably going to be influenced by something regardless) Or is specifically witnessing different sexual activity different then witnessing violence (the US seems to agree with this in it's rating system).
One show can reach greater heights than the other, that's why.
That show is not half-good then. But it still doesn't beat an all-good anime. Reread my example. An all-good anime does not give one the feeling that if it had been a bit different that the time would've been spend better. An anime that's not all-good gives a slight feeling of disappointment for if they had done x differently it would've been more awesome and more worth the time spend on it. Not-all-good can never be better then all-good. If it can, the anime you label as all-good is not all-good.
An all-good anime does not give one the feeling that if it had been a bit different that the time would've been spend better. An anime that's not all-good gives a slight feeling of disappointment for if they had done x differently it would've been more awesome and more worth the time spend on it. Not-all-good can never be better then all-good. If it can, the anime you label as all-good is not all-good.
No, that doesn't make any sense. This "x-good" paradigm you're trying to shoehorn everything into just doesn't work.
To tie this all back together, one of the original examples mentioned on the show was Gaogaigar. Until around the seventeen episode mark, this show isn't anything special. After the change in direction happens, (as the producers noticed it was adults who grew up with super robot shows as opposed to children watching) it rapidly becomes more and more awesome. It gets to the point where even the general enjoyment I get out of something like Cowboy Bebop doesn't compare to some of the epic moments and raw emotion in Gaogaigar. That's what I mean when I say an anime can reach greater heights despite say, taking some time to get going or having moe elements people might dislike. Those were the main reasons I heard for labelling a show "half-bad." However I feel no "slight feeling of disappointment" when I watch Gaogaigar.
However I feel no "slight feeling of disappointment" when I watch Gaogaigar.
You're telling me you never thought "Oh man, why didn't they start sooner with this?" whenever those epic moments start? Don't kid yourself. Gaogaigar would've been waaaaaay more awesome if it had been as epic as it become from episode 17 onward in your opinion.
However I feel no "slight feeling of disappointment" when I watch Gaogaigar.
You're telling me you never thought "Oh man, why didn't they start sooner with this?" whenever those epic moments start? Don't kid yourself. Gaogaigar would've been waaaaaay more awesome if it had been as epic as it become from episode 17 onward in your opinion.
I didn't care. Still don't. Either way, it doesn't change the fact I enjoy it more on the whole than Cowboy Bebop because of how great it gets.
However I feel no "slight feeling of disappointment" when I watch Gaogaigar.
You're telling me you never thought "Oh man, why didn't they start sooner with this?" whenever those epic moments start? Don't kid yourself. Gaogaigar would've been waaaaaay more awesome if it had been as epic as it become from episode 17 onward in your opinion.
However I feel no "slight feeling of disappointment" when I watch Gaogaigar.
You're telling me you never thought "Oh man, why didn't they start sooner with this?" whenever those epic moments start? Don't kid yourself. Gaogaigar would've been waaaaaay more awesome if it had been as epic as it become from episode 17 onward in your opinion.
...Gurren Lagann. Period.
I rate it highly, but in the end, I still prefer Gaogaigar. I heard that GL was supposed to a fifty-two episode series and watching it, I can believe that. While it does help the series in some points by keeping the action going at a fast pace, it hurts some of the awesome moments when they happened pretty abruptly and there wasn't really time for them to sink in. I think Gaogaigar had better pacing. Especially FINAL, which was just an awesome back and forth battle and a see-saw of emotions. Of course, that's just my nitpicking and they're both great shows. This is besides the point, at any rate.
Or is it that exposure to this stuff is actually creating more pedos?
I'm going to have to disagree with you on this one, Scott. It's like with violent video games: they don't create murderers, they just make murderers more creative. Pornography depicting underage girls isn't going to create pedophiles just by the fact that it's there, but it probably will excite people who are already pedophiles into committing crimes.
Reimu should in no way be banned. So far i've agreed with everything he/she has said. Scott, on the other hand, seems to be using his emotion to argue rather than logic or evidence. First of all, while I am not a huge fan of moe I did not realize until now that it was connected to lolicon type fetishes. I have always seen moe as an element of comedic expression. After reading the posts, however, it does make sense that it is placed in to cater to a small demographic and it can take away from the quality of the overall show. To say that this is always the case, however, is an unjustified generalization. Even if moe always depreciates an experience for you, it will always appeal to others. Nothing can be objectively bad yet people seem to use this mentality in their arguments. Furthermore, I do not believe there is anything wrong with any type of pornographic fetishes, including loliporn. Every person has their own fetishes; a series of ATCG repeats in one's DNA has determined this for him/her from birth. There is nothing wrong, therefore, to abide by the urges of nature intrinsic within us as long as, of course, one does not harm anyone else in the process. Therefore, people should not look down on others that like deviant fetishes like Scott so vehemently believes. It is the people who act on these desires without regard for the welfare of others that should be scorned. Furthermore, there is no correlation that links uncondoned behavior in mediums of entertainment to real life manifestations.
Finally, the argument concerning "all good" to "half good" is, like Reimu says, a flawed way of thinking. While people are correct when they say all good is better than half good, they are incorrectly attributing anime to a binary-type classification. An anime is not either good or bad, there are different levels of enjoyment. Obviously if one anime is seen as bad + good, it would be inferior to good + good. But this is not how all anime's with better/worse parts can be compared. Which would you watch, bad + very good or good + good? Also, one may argue why make an anime bad + good when they can just make the anime good throughout? Many times, the initial "bad" is required in order to ascend the later experience's enjoyability. An example here is Evangelion. The former episodes are the traditional cliche monster of the week type episodes. However, because of this, Evangelion's later descend into the psychological made it a greater experience overall. An example in video games will be taken from WoW. While many may agree that the most enjoyable parts are pvp battles, they would not be as enjoyable if you had not worked for your character. The initial effort required to make your character competitive increases greatly the final experience. Thus, it is incorrect to continue to use the paradigm thinking of "all good" better than "half good" as animes simply can not be classified this way. What should be taken into account is the experience as a whole.
Comments
Although it may be too quick to ban, I still think that deleting previous posts so that they can't be used against you is inexcusable.
[Edit]Wow. I totally hadn't read this post. You're talking like a conspiracy theorist. Maybe you don't deserve the (however little) respect I gave you in my last post.
I think that all living things must be treated with respect. Pedophiles are sick, and they must be treated with the respect a sick person must have.
I predicted that this subject would come up the minute he answered with the words "to fap."
But really, I guess I would rather people who have pedophile leanings to be satisfied by watching a show then trying to go out and satisfy those urges in reality.. I liked it a whole lot better when I only had to defend anime from people who thought it was all demon-tenacle rape, instead of creapy pedophile material as well.
To tie this all back together, one of the original examples mentioned on the show was Gaogaigar. Until around the seventeen episode mark, this show isn't anything special. After the change in direction happens, (as the producers noticed it was adults who grew up with super robot shows as opposed to children watching) it rapidly becomes more and more awesome. It gets to the point where even the general enjoyment I get out of something like Cowboy Bebop doesn't compare to some of the epic moments and raw emotion in Gaogaigar. That's what I mean when I say an anime can reach greater heights despite say, taking some time to get going or having moe elements people might dislike. Those were the main reasons I heard for labelling a show "half-bad." However I feel no "slight feeling of disappointment" when I watch Gaogaigar.
Even the ending was better than FINAL's ending.
Finally, the argument concerning "all good" to "half good" is, like Reimu says, a flawed way of thinking. While people are correct when they say all good is better than half good, they are incorrectly attributing anime to a binary-type classification. An anime is not either good or bad, there are different levels of enjoyment. Obviously if one anime is seen as bad + good, it would be inferior to good + good. But this is not how all anime's with better/worse parts can be compared. Which would you watch, bad + very good or good + good? Also, one may argue why make an anime bad + good when they can just make the anime good throughout? Many times, the initial "bad" is required in order to ascend the later experience's enjoyability. An example here is Evangelion. The former episodes are the traditional cliche monster of the week type episodes. However, because of this, Evangelion's later descend into the psychological made it a greater experience overall. An example in video games will be taken from WoW. While many may agree that the most enjoyable parts are pvp battles, they would not be as enjoyable if you had not worked for your character. The initial effort required to make your character competitive increases greatly the final experience. Thus, it is incorrect to continue to use the paradigm thinking of "all good" better than "half good" as animes simply can not be classified this way. What should be taken into account is the experience as a whole.