And without the rural areas that contain large factories, mines, farms, dairies, processing plants, etc. then the cities would be screwed (not to mention the overall economy).
And without the rural areas that contain large factories, mines, farms, dairies, processing plants, etc. then the cities would be screwed (not to mention the overall economy).
Why is there no more working class in America? It moved to China.
There is still a large working class in the US - it just isn't as large as it used to be. A lot of companies create manufacturing plants in rural areas because the cost for space, workers, taxes, etc. are far too high in cities. These manufacturing and processing plants still exist (not to mention the agriculture business and mining businesses in those areas).
I thought this was just a clever reference to Heinlein's Starship Troopers...
The overall theme of the book is that social responsibility requires being prepared to make individual sacrifice. Heinlein's Terran Federation is a limited democracy with aspects of a meritocracy based on willingness to sacrifice in the common interest. Suffrage belongs only to those willing to serve their society by two years of volunteer Federal Service — "the franchise is today limited to discharged veterans", (ch. XII), instead of anyone "...who is 18 years old and has a body temperature near 37°C"[15] The Federation is required to find a place for anyone who desires to serve, regardless of skill or aptitude.
There is an explicitly made contrast to the democracies of the 20th century, which according to the novel collapsed because "people had been led to believe that they could simply vote for whatever they wanted... and get it, without toil, without sweat, without tears."[16] Indeed, Col. Dubois criticizes as unrealistic the famous U.S. Declaration of Independence guarantees concerning "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." No one can stop anyone from pursuing happiness, but life and liberty can exist only if they are deliberately sought and paid for.
But then people started debating it seriously... ah well.
I thought this was just a clever reference to Heinlein's Starship Troopers...
The overall theme of the book is that social responsibility requires being prepared to make individual sacrifice. Heinlein's Terran Federation is a limited democracy with aspects of a meritocracy based on willingness to sacrifice in the common interest. Suffrage belongs only to those willing to serve their society by two years of volunteer Federal Service — "the franchise is today limited to discharged veterans", (ch. XII), instead of anyone "...who is 18 years old and has a body temperature near 37°C"[15] The Federation is required to find a place for anyone who desires to serve, regardless of skill or aptitude.
There is an explicitly made contrast to the democracies of the 20th century, which according to the novel collapsed because "people had been led to believe that they could simply vote for whatever they wanted... and get it, without toil, without sweat, without tears."[16] Indeed, Col. Dubois criticizes as unrealistic the famous U.S. Declaration of Independence guarantees concerning "Life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness." No one can stop anyone from pursuing happiness, but life and liberty can exist only if they are deliberately sought and paid for.
But then people started debating it seriously... ah well.
That's exactly what I meant it to be. Then kilarney started being an ass about it . . .
I'm forgoing all other points to toss this one out there.
Education is a huge issue in isolated rural areas. However, the problems isn't always lack of an adequate education, or access to challenging opportunities; forcing everybody to conform to the same educational standards causes some people to reject education altogether, as what they're learning doesn't fit what they need or want in an education. Rejection of intellectualism in general follows suit. Thus, the state of education itself is partly responsible for its rejection by certain members of isolated rural communities. Discuss.
It's certainly a reasonable viewpoint. Part of the difficulty is that there is no such thing as an ideal political education, and that's really the type of education most relevant to voting rights. Knowing what RAM is or how to build an automobile doesn't necessarily lend anything to making sensible policy choices. Unfortunately, determining who gets to vote via political educational standards can easily morph into determining who gets to vote by which political school of thought they follow.
That's like Hitler and Jesus teaming up to kick your arse.
I'm surprised this thread took five pages to breach the Godwin threshold. I'm even more surprised that it was the person who started the thread that caused the breach.
For two years I went to a primary school in a rural area. I was one of 19 students in the entire school. Not in my class, in the whole school. There were two classes, one for ages 4 to 8 and one for ages 8 to 11. Of course, in the 8 to 11 class I was taught lessons that had to be understood or at least suitable for children over that entire age range. This resulted in me getting pretty much no education that mattered for two years. I entered secondary school and took a maths test to see which level of classes I should be taking, and I was put in the remedial "learn slower to catch up" classes. Turns out I wasn't that stupid, I'd just not been taught stuff. I was so humiliated being in the same classroom as the smelly kids I worked hard and by the time I left that school aged 16 I was in the second from top class in maths. However, I missed out on loads of things as I skipped around from class to class, and it was only in a final exam that I looked at a trig problem and thought "Oh I get it... ratios!" Until then I had picked up methods but never actually grasped the concepts.
Anyway, a rural school prepared me in no way for life in general. All the other kids took the piss because my twin brother and I had never driven a tractor. I'm not kidding.
There's a lot that goes into this issue, not the least of which is how we define "rural." There are also geographic variations in rural attitudes. It's a complicated puzzle, really.
One of the major common themes I've seen has to do with resources. The world is no longer like Ethan Frome; that sort of total isolation really doesn't happen today unless you actively seek it out, and that's true even in rural communities. Unless you've intentionally isolated yourself from every other human being in the world, the odds are that you can be exposed to multiple different kinds of people. The Internet has done wonders in this department, as have television and radio before it.
So, it's not really the isolation that is necessarily the problem, though it does wind up playing a role (a bit different from what it used to play). The issue isn't even the lack of resources per se. As has been pointed out, most rural people do in fact have enough money to make ends meet.
The problem also isn't necessarily the lack of opportunity; people are made aware of other opportunities, and most, even in very rural communities, can get together the resources to pursue other opportunities.
The problem with rural living is that it's close to subsistence in terms of resources, opportunity, and culture. As such, those born into a rural community are presented, for the majority of their lives, with a dichotomous world. They have just enough resources, opportunities, and culture to make it where they are and nowhere else. If they had enough resources, they could access other opportunities in more diverse environments while still actually living a rural life. However, since the vast majority do not, the choice they have is to continue the rural life (with its limited opportunities), or completely throw away the rural life and move somewhere else. Most are disinclined to do this because of strong tendencies to stay with family.
So, really, those in a rural setting have chosen that life. It's a tough choice to make, but it's really not necessarily rooted in a lacking of any sort in the community. Most of the problem with rural life is that the culture winds up being very homogeneous, so your daily interactions aren't terribly varied. The Internet can only provide so much in that regard.
The world is no longer likeEthan Frome; that sort of total isolation really doesn't happen today unless you actively seek it out, and that's true even in rural communities.
For someone who doesn't like that book, you sure talk about it a lot. I guess, like other great works of art, it made a lasting impression.
The world is no longer likeEthan Frome; that sort of total isolation really doesn't happen today unless you actively seek it out, and that's true even in rural communities.
For someone who doesn't like that book, you sure talk about it a lot. I guess, like other great works of art, it made a lasting impression.
No, I bring it up to troll you, mostly. I'll give you this much, though; it's a great example of literature that is no longer relevant. So, I guess if you were teaching a class about the eventual decline of the usefulness of literature, Ethan Frome would be great in that capacity.
EDIT: Stabbing out my eye with a pencil will also make a lasting impression; that doesn't make it an avenue worth pursuing.
The world is no longer likeEthan Frome; that sort of total isolation really doesn't happen today unless you actively seek it out, and that's true even in rural communities.
For someone who doesn't like that book, you sure talk about it a lot. I guess, like other great works of art, it made a lasting impression.
No, I bring it up to troll you, mostly. I'll give you this much, though; it's a great example of literature that is no longer relevant. So, I guess if you were teaching a class about the eventual decline of the usefulness of literature,Ethan Fromewould be great in that capacity.
EDIT: Stabbing out my eye with a pencil will also make a lasting impression; that doesn't make it an avenue worth pursuing.
Yeah, I think you protest a little too much. I think you secretly love that book.
The world is no longer likeEthan Frome; that sort of total isolation really doesn't happen today unless you actively seek it out, and that's true even in rural communities.
For someone who doesn't like that book, you sure talk about it a lot. I guess, like other great works of art, it made a lasting impression.
No, I bring it up to troll you, mostly. I'll give you this much, though; it's a great example of literature that is no longer relevant. So, I guess if you were teaching a class about the eventual decline of the usefulness of literature,Ethan Fromewould be great in that capacity.
EDIT: Stabbing out my eye with a pencil will also make a lasting impression; that doesn't make it an avenue worth pursuing.
Yeah, I think you protest a little too much. I think you secretly love that book.
No, I really don't. If you get to know me more, you'll find out that I'm full of protest.
Jeez, Joe, you have the mean knob on your amp set to 11 today don't you? First it is Steve and his "brain damage," now a non-courtroom battle between prosecutor and defense attorney. Oy Gevalt.
Do I need to read you some gay lawyer slashfic until you get along? Don't make me do it.
Comments
Makes up for the fact that you argue that the Peace Corps pays a good salary, when the facts show that the Peace Corps pays no salary.
Who cares about facts when we have your witty banter! Just don't look behind the curtain!
I'm forgoing all other points to toss this one out there.
Education is a huge issue in isolated rural areas. However, the problems isn't always lack of an adequate education, or access to challenging opportunities; forcing everybody to conform to the same educational standards causes some people to reject education altogether, as what they're learning doesn't fit what they need or want in an education. Rejection of intellectualism in general follows suit. Thus, the state of education itself is partly responsible for its rejection by certain members of isolated rural communities. Discuss.
Anyway, a rural school prepared me in no way for life in general. All the other kids took the piss because my twin brother and I had never driven a tractor. I'm not kidding.
One of the major common themes I've seen has to do with resources. The world is no longer like Ethan Frome; that sort of total isolation really doesn't happen today unless you actively seek it out, and that's true even in rural communities. Unless you've intentionally isolated yourself from every other human being in the world, the odds are that you can be exposed to multiple different kinds of people. The Internet has done wonders in this department, as have television and radio before it.
So, it's not really the isolation that is necessarily the problem, though it does wind up playing a role (a bit different from what it used to play). The issue isn't even the lack of resources per se. As has been pointed out, most rural people do in fact have enough money to make ends meet.
The problem also isn't necessarily the lack of opportunity; people are made aware of other opportunities, and most, even in very rural communities, can get together the resources to pursue other opportunities.
The problem with rural living is that it's close to subsistence in terms of resources, opportunity, and culture. As such, those born into a rural community are presented, for the majority of their lives, with a dichotomous world. They have just enough resources, opportunities, and culture to make it where they are and nowhere else. If they had enough resources, they could access other opportunities in more diverse environments while still actually living a rural life. However, since the vast majority do not, the choice they have is to continue the rural life (with its limited opportunities), or completely throw away the rural life and move somewhere else. Most are disinclined to do this because of strong tendencies to stay with family.
So, really, those in a rural setting have chosen that life. It's a tough choice to make, but it's really not necessarily rooted in a lacking of any sort in the community. Most of the problem with rural life is that the culture winds up being very homogeneous, so your daily interactions aren't terribly varied. The Internet can only provide so much in that regard.
EDIT: Stabbing out my eye with a pencil will also make a lasting impression; that doesn't make it an avenue worth pursuing.
You know what I do love, though? Cooler Ranch Doritos.
Do I need to read you some gay lawyer slashfic until you get along? Don't make me do it.
(You know what Yuko calls gyakuten saiban, right?)
Fandom: Law & Order SVU / 30 Rock
Just a preview: “I am a lesbian†Gretchen said calmly.