So, apparently the paragon of journalistic ethics known as Gawker outed an Internet troll and professional creepy dude, and now the Internet is in a shitstorm. Reddit banned the article, then released the ban, and fans of the author are in an uproar.
Personally, I think everyone involved in this is in the wrong. The guy in question is a pretty despicable person, though (from what I can tell) wasn't doing anything illegal. The author of the article details explicitly how he taunted the man with releasing (and promoting) his identity, and it seems the guy has been fired from his job and people are now harassing him because of this.
Yeah, while the guy is a complete scumbag, the delight the "journalist" took in cat and mousing him and then posting the entire transcript like some sort of brag reel was pretty distasteful.
We have a legal system and we ought to use it. That gawker article was a lynching.
I don't think what Gawker did to him was any worse than what he did to those teenage girls whose pictures he used. I have no sympathy for the creeper dude, but the guy who outed him was a smug vigilante. Neither did anything strictly illegal, and neither was very nice. (I will say, though, I tend to side with the vigilante on a purely emotional level. I will not deny that there is a certain side of me that hopes misogynistic jackoffs like Violentacrez get a comeuppance.)
I don't think he posted any photos, but maybe that's a fine distinction.
The photos were also not posted with identifiers, home addresses, employer information, phone numbers...
And anyway that's a red herring. It doesn't matter if the article was worse than what he did. What matters is that it's not the place of a journalist to dispense vigilante justice.
No, he totally did post photos. He didn't make photos of teenage girl butts, but he gathered them from far and wide, to my understanding. Also, what happens if there is an Amanda Todd situation? What if some girl gets picked on for being a slut because people are jerking off to her beach picture on the internet and her school finds out? Also, no, journalism isn't the place for doxxing. It's like any other vigilantism: I condemn it on principle, but I also sometimes feel a little good on an irrational level when a major jerk gets some form of fitting smackdown.
So it turns out all the files in my Sailor Moon torrent were borked. Not malware, they just skipped all over episodes, some episodes being just the first half of the opener, but still claiming to be 23min long. Can someone explain to me what happened here? In the meantime, I'll be finding a new torrent.
Honestly? I consider this to be investigative journalism.
It lost any vestiges of that when the transcript was posted like a Nigerian baiting brag log (and repeated in a few places for emphasis). The whole tone of the article was of smug vigilantism, not journalism.
I believe the guy should face consequences, but they should be proportionate consequences. Dude is going to need a new witness-protection-plan level of identity to ever work again.
I believe the guy should face consequences, but they should be proportionate consequences. Dude is going to need a new witness-protection-plan level of identity to ever work again.
I don't see why what he is facing is not proportionate consequences. All that happened was the truth of some things he did came out for all to see and people reacted to them. This wasn't some fabricated slander. It was merely the truth. Do you think that people shouldn't react to the information that he is a hebephile who likes watching women get beat up? That's why I decided that I would try not to do things that I could not stand by if called to defend them. I'm sure I wouldn't be a good fit for some places because of my politics that I talk about on the internet. I wouldn't want to work at a place where I could get fired for being who I am, fired by a simple google search. If my boss found out I read a yaoi doujinshi and fired me, I would probably not have been very happy to work there in the first place. As it is, we work in a place we can laugh at Homestuck slash and draw boobs and nobody bats an eye. We all established our boundaries. Basically, all he needs to do is find a place where he can work with other sleezeballs of similar moral fiber.
I think he's mentally ill and probably needs to be ordered to undergo counseling and treatment. I don't think sicking angry feminists and white-knights of the internet by the hundreds on him is going to fix him or appropriately punish him. There is a lion's share of angry people out there looking for a proxy for every socially horrible thing that goes on in the world who will never leave him alone again as long as he lives. That is not proportionate. That is not moral. It's just revenge and it's counter to American ideals of justice.
I don't think sicking angry feminists and white-knights of the internet by the hundreds on him is going to fix him or appropriately punish him.
You know not only feminists get angry about pictures of unsuspecting teenage girls getting put on the internet, right?
Obviously I think most people, myself included, are upset about what he did, and upset that an entire depraved community of perverts supported him in it. It's saddening and upsetting that an entire subreddit for this even has the support to exist. Let alone other shit like spacedicks and all of that crap. It's truly distressing that humans do this crap.
It's the extremists who will harangue this guy until he dies, and that's what I was addressing. Don't cherry pick one sentence and twist it. It's not productive, just intellectually dishonest and counter to discussion.
Reddit is a purely reactionary organism. It perceives a "threat" and attacks, regardless of the validity of the threat. If the threat is a hated "other" (such as Gawker), the reaction is just that much stronger.
The only reason I'm still there is that /r/anime is pretty much entirely isolated from the rest of Reddit. I look at cute and/or creepy pictures there once a day, then go back to the rest of the internet. Fuck, I personally feel that there's a better chance for mature, productive conversation on 4chan than on Reddit. And I'm not even talking about one of the good boards. I'm talking about like, /v/ or /b/.
So Churba is being a reactionary ditto-head when he pipes up about journalistic integrity and a code of ethics that accompanies investigative reporting? Me too? It's not that we have a valid concern, it's just that we read stuff on reddit, which has made us stupid.
I think that the punishment is just that he has to live with the truth of what he has done and that people have seen his secret identity. I don't think people should harass him. I don't think people should harass anyone. I do think that it is enough for us to know him for the loser he is and not befriend/hire him if he makes us uncomfortable.
I think that the punishment is just that he has to live with the truth of what he has done and that people have seen his secret identity. I don't think people should harass him. I don't think people should harass anyone. I do think that it is enough for us to know him for the loser he is and not befriend/hire him if he makes us uncomfortable.
If this were the likely outcome I'd be inclined to agree. Having seen multiple demonstrations that it only takes one aggrieved stalker with an axe to grind to drive someone to mental instability and suicide via the internet, I don't think the outcome is likely to be as mild as you're predicting. Hundreds or thousands of really angry (for good reason) people have just been given a fatted calf. It's not a good thing.
I think that the punishment is just that he has to live with the truth of what he has done and that people have seen his secret identity. I don't think people should harass him. I don't think people should harass anyone. I do think that it is enough for us to know him for the loser he is and not befriend/hire him if he makes us uncomfortable.
Emily, if it were just him paying the piper for this I'd be with you all the way, but his family is suffering now too. This fails the basic check of harm limitation when it comes to journalistic integrity.
No, I just said that I don't want him to be bullied. I just want him to be known for the truth of what he has done, and if that includes people not wanting him in their businesses or homes, that's their decision.
You know, all I want from any villain is just the realization of how they have been wrong all along. I don't even want them to die. My favorite stories are the ones where the villain realizes he has been bad all along in a moment of Peripeteia, and tries to make amends or perishes knowing the truth of his sins. Villians who go to the grave thinking they were right all along are boring and sad. I only want people to be punished in so far as they learn from their mistakes and try to change. I want people to be fixed.
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Personally, I think everyone involved in this is in the wrong. The guy in question is a pretty despicable person, though (from what I can tell) wasn't doing anything illegal. The author of the article details explicitly how he taunted the man with releasing (and promoting) his identity, and it seems the guy has been fired from his job and people are now harassing him because of this.
Everybody sucks.
We have a legal system and we ought to use it. That gawker article was a lynching.
The photos were also not posted with identifiers, home addresses, employer information, phone numbers...
And anyway that's a red herring. It doesn't matter if the article was worse than what he did. What matters is that it's not the place of a journalist to dispense vigilante justice.
Also, what happens if there is an Amanda Todd situation? What if some girl gets picked on for being a slut because people are jerking off to her beach picture on the internet and her school finds out?
Also, no, journalism isn't the place for doxxing. It's like any other vigilantism: I condemn it on principle, but I also sometimes feel a little good on an irrational level when a major jerk gets some form of fitting smackdown.
Still doesn't excuse doxxing. Doxxing has mob justice as its intent.
http://www.dailydot.com/news/violentacrez-reddit-troll-fired-gawker-profile/
I believe the guy should face consequences, but they should be proportionate consequences. Dude is going to need a new witness-protection-plan level of identity to ever work again.
That's why I decided that I would try not to do things that I could not stand by if called to defend them. I'm sure I wouldn't be a good fit for some places because of my politics that I talk about on the internet. I wouldn't want to work at a place where I could get fired for being who I am, fired by a simple google search. If my boss found out I read a yaoi doujinshi and fired me, I would probably not have been very happy to work there in the first place. As it is, we work in a place we can laugh at Homestuck slash and draw boobs and nobody bats an eye. We all established our boundaries.
Basically, all he needs to do is find a place where he can work with other sleezeballs of similar moral fiber.
It's the extremists who will harangue this guy until he dies, and that's what I was addressing. Don't cherry pick one sentence and twist it. It's not productive, just intellectually dishonest and counter to discussion.
The only reason I'm still there is that /r/anime is pretty much entirely isolated from the rest of Reddit. I look at cute and/or creepy pictures there once a day, then go back to the rest of the internet. Fuck, I personally feel that there's a better chance for mature, productive conversation on 4chan than on Reddit. And I'm not even talking about one of the good boards. I'm talking about like, /v/ or /b/.
Are bullying, stalking, and harrassment OK as long as the subject is a bad person?
You know, all I want from any villain is just the realization of how they have been wrong all along. I don't even want them to die. My favorite stories are the ones where the villain realizes he has been bad all along in a moment of Peripeteia, and tries to make amends or perishes knowing the truth of his sins. Villians who go to the grave thinking they were right all along are boring and sad.
I only want people to be punished in so far as they learn from their mistakes and try to change. I want people to be fixed.