Otakon is a shitty con to go to as your first con. Never, ever, ever go to a huge con as your first con. Terrible idea. As second or third con, fine. In general though, if you go to a huge and crowded con as your first con, you're probably going to be turned off of cons altogether.
In general though, if you go to a huge and crowded con as your first con, you're probably going to be turned off of cons altogether.
I don't know about that. Would going to Disney World as your first theme park turn most people off from theme parks? Crowds are not for everybody, but I'd go as far as to say that most people get excited by large quantities of people rather than turned off by them.
Otakon is a shitty con to go to as your first con. Never, ever, ever go to a huge con as your first con. Terrible idea. As second or third con, fine. In general though, if you go to a huge and crowded con as your first con, you're probably going to be turned off of cons altogether.
Whoops. Otakon was my first and, as of right now, only con.
Would going to Disney World as your first amusement park turn most people off from theme parks?
Just as a note, a theme park and an amusement park are very different beasts.
Whoops. Otakon was my first and, as of right now, only con.
Try a non-anime con. Waaaay different.
I do disagree about attending small cons first, however. My first con was small and shitty, to the point that I almost didn't bother going to Otakon. Otakon 2002 was my first proper con, and it was amazing.
In general though, if you go to a huge and crowded con as your first con, you're probably going to be turned off of cons altogether.
I don't know about that. Would going to Disney World as your first theme park turn most people off from theme parks? Crowds are not for everybody, but I'd go as far as to say that most people get excited by large quantities of people rather than turned off by them.
That's a dumb comparison, because it is not even close to the same thing. Cons are about socializing. A huge, crowded con where you have to push your way through people to get anywhere is not a good venue for socializing with new people. Theme and amusement parks are about amusement from rides, shows, etc. You are not trying to meet strangers and have awesomeness ensue. You just want to ride the damn rides or watch the damn shows or take a picture with Daisy Duck.
If you go to a small, shitty con it will be shitty. You have to go to a small con that is good, Rym. Durr. Don't be an idiot. Small does not mean 50 people. It means between 500 and 5000 people.
Ditto, although I've been to other cons. I would like to see a bigger pangeek con. I even want to submit panels.
That is a very good point. Most of the big big cons have a relatively narrow focus. Otakon on Anime and Japanese things. CCI(SDCC) is focused on comics and Hollywood. NYCC is a mini-CCI. NYAF is more anime/manga focused than Otakon even. Anime Expo is as well. Comiket has a super strong focus. PAX is pretty much just gaming. Gencon is also just gaming.
I guess Dragoncon would be the biggest geek con that is pan-geek. It has gaming and scifi and even skepticism tracks. FanExpo Canada also might be the biggest pan-geek con. I think it's the biggest geek con in Canada, period.
But yes, there should definitely be an Otakon-sized convention that is pan-geek. I think the best chance to make it happen is to start it from scratch in Vegas. Vegas has the biggest convention center, so there is effectively unlimited growth potential. There's also limited competition as the nearest big cons are pretty far away geographically. Austin, TX would be another strong contender because there is a strong geek community living there, but you have competing events like SXSW and such.
I just want to point out that Otakon Aaron Clark and PAX Aaron Clark are two different people who have no relationship with each other. FRC Forum member AaronC is PAX Aaron Clark. Man, its weird reading about people bitching about someone with your same name.
I just want to point out that Otakon Aaron Clark and PAX Aaron Clark are two different people who have no relationship with each other. FRC Forum member AaronC is PAX Aaron Clark. Man, its weird reading about people bitching about someone with your same name.
Lol, Rym and I were just discussing a few hours ago how there are two Aaron Clarks who have the exact opposite levels of awesomeness.
I just want to point out that Otakon Aaron Clark and PAX Aaron Clark are two different people who have no relationship with each other. FRC Forum member AaronC is PAX Aaron Clark. Man, its weird reading about people bitching about someone with your same name.
The curse of a fairly generic name. I'm lucky in that respect; Nathan, Malynn, and Neito are all fairly rare names, so if someone's saying something terrible about Neito, I can be assured it's me.
I can't believe so many of you had bad Otakon experiences. I feel like when you go to a con of such size, it's definitely what you make it. In my opinion, you have to plan your events, know what you want to see, and organize your entire weekend in advance in order to have a good time.
Otakon 2010 definitely wasn't the best one I've been to, but I still had an extraordinary time. My friends and I arrived on Thursday, picked up our badges, and while we were at dinner, we all took out our schedules and planned the events we definitely wanted to see. We went and got food from a grocery store, checked our maps to make sure we had a good idea of where the panels we wanted to go to were located, and fell asleep Thursday night prepared and excited for the coming day. Friday was great, we all saw some great panels, had some great times in the AA, and even helped rescue a poor cosplayer who got stuck in an escalator. A couple of my friends chose to opt out on the rave Friday night, so they stayed in and played Super Smash on the gamecube we brought. Saturday and Sunday were much the same. There were quite a few panels that had long lines, but if you bring your DS you can easily entertain yourself with pictochat. When the "fire" happened, my friend Molly whipped out UNO and we entertained ourselves outside playing against other con-goers.
I seriously think that if you have a bad experience, it's probably your own fault. There's plenty to do at Otakon, and if you disagree, you're not doing it right.
Also, to all of you people who are not coming to Otakon because they won't mail badges, it's not that bad. I picked up my badge in five minutes, FIVE MINUTES! As long as you pre-reg and have your ID and e-mail verification with you, getting your badge is a quick and easy process.
A huge, crowded con where you have to push your way through people to get anywhere is not a good venue for socializing with new people.
Again, I disagree. It's almost easier to meet people in an extremely crowded con. Lines are an instant opening for conversation. Even bumping into someone is an opening for conversation. I met a super-cool cosplayer this year by accidentally bumping into her wings!
Also, to all of you people who are not coming to Otakon because they won't mail badges,it's not that bad.I picked up my badge in five minutes, FIVE MINUTES! As long as you pre-reg and have your ID and e-mail verification with you, getting your badge is a quick and easy process.
Reports are that it was definitely a far cry from last year, so it's no longer the dealbreaker it was. I still think they should mail them, but for other internal reasons.
Otakon 2010 definitely wasn't the best one I've been to, but I still had an extraordinary time.
And I'm sure Scott and I would have too. It pained us greatly not to attend, and I've always enjoyed Otakon.
The real trouble isn't so much Otakon failing, as other conventions like PAX blowing it out of the water. For us personally, it's the crazy, silly internal drama of the staff preventing meaningful change and growth. They'll be in trouble if, five years from now, Otakon is doing the same old thing while everything else has surpassed them. (You wouldn't believe the silly, petty infighting, grudges, "factions," personal drama, and politcking that goes on in my experience so far on the staff. It was painful to watch).
How much better would Otakon be if they actually introduced their screenings? Had a little mini-panel before each one? Scheduled blocks of interesting screenings ("Anime You Never Thought You'd Like" or "Robot Shows Aren't Always About Robots") of the first episodes of several different shows along a theme?
How about if Otakon actively sought out professional panelists (anime fan film professors, entertainers, etc...) to supplement their fan panels, raising the bar of content? What if the panels department started working right after Otakon ended, and not long after the new year? What if they properly cleared the rooms between every panel (unambiguously) and enforced the half-hour gaps? What if they'd had Daryl Surat do his dangerously popular "Anime's Craziest Deaths" this year as an 18+ panel in the largest panel room? (There was no legitimate reason not to but hard feelings and drama within the staff, so far as a few email conversations I had would indicate). What if they'd had the amazing "Super Art Fight!" instead of or in addition to the much tamer "Iron Artist?" What if they had a late show at the con? A morning show? Moderated topical roundtables with the guests (Japanese AND English)?
What if they fixed the screening rooms so that the subtitles were visible? What if they did something different with the rave (to deal with the smell and overcrowding)? What if they did mail the badges?
What if they actually tried to sell the attendees on seeing the Japanese guests? What if they had a keynote as part of opening ceremonies? What if they gave more props to the volunteers?
Otakon could be so much better, but the pace of chance and the attitudes of the majority of the staff effectively prevent it. (Look at the Otakon feedback thread: one of the few repeated complaints revolves around the staff being rude/surly/uninformed). I've always had fun at Otakon, and expect that I would have this year, but imagine the potential if the staff had both the skill and the will to make it unambiguously better every single year!
Getting your badge might have been a quick and easy process this year, but that is definitely not how it has been for the past several years. It doesn't matter that much to me; it's part of why I didn't go this year, but the main thing is the extreme cost of staying in Baltimore for 4 days and the shitty handling of Artist Alley stuff last year.
I can't believe so many of you had bad Otakon experiences. I feel like when you go to a con of such size, it's definitely what you make it. In my opinion, you have to plan your events, know what you want to see, and organize your entire weekend in advance in order to have a good time.
Because you have to know what you are doing enough to plan the con, a first-time con-goer is usually not going to be able to maximize their enjoyment of Otakon. You made my point for me. I didn't say Otakon was bad; I said if you aren't ready for it, it's not going to be as good as it should be, which could skew your view of cons. Even Dragon*con, which is about the same size, which has more opportunity to socialize because it's spread out over 4 hotels and their lounge areas, is not an optimal con for most con virgins IMO. Otakon and Dragon are both very large and take a lot of walking, which can tire you out if you're not ready for it. Without effective planning beforehand, both of those cons can be a little overwhelming.
Again, I disagree. It's almost easier to meet people in an extremely crowded con. Lines are an instant opening for conversation. Even bumping into someone is an opening for conversation. I met a super-cool cosplayer this year by accidentally bumping into her wings!
Maybe it is for you; you're probably also an extrovert. Most people in the crowded parts of Otakon have an agenda. They are going somewhere or doing something. They are not stopping to talk to the random person who bumped into them in the hall. Most people who come to Otakon also come with a group, which cuts down on the social outreach they are likely to do. Lines are the only time when people stop or slow down. If waiting in line is the only real social time, then that's significantly less than most smaller cons where you have some down time between panels or games, and there are people who just hang out in common areas. Also, the sheer number of people can overwhelm anyone who is the least bit shy. At smaller cons where there are fewer people it can be less intimidating to go up to some random person sitting in a hotel lounge and start a conversation, because there is less perceived insularity. Of course there are opportunities to meet people at Otakon. It's just that there's a higher barrier to entry, which is something that can put off a new person.
People who have been to cons are very different from people who have not when they are approaching a convention. Sometimes it can be difficult to put yourself into the shoes of a person who hasn't ever been to a con and doesn't know what the hell it's going to be like. And of course, not every single newbie fits into this description. I have found, though, that it is more common than not.
The long annoying lines is a reason to mail the badges, but it's not the only reason. The main reason to mail the badges is to completely eliminate the Thursday badge pickup. That means that every con attendee can come to Baltimore one day later, and have one less hotel night, and save a ton of money. If you took all the money spent on Thursday night hotels you could easily pay for badge mailing. Sucks for Baltimore hotels, but good for attendees.
If you have any significant travel time some people (like myself) would still have to come up Thursday so avoiding the hotel cost is not really the issue. Not having to get their early enough to get a badge means does however mean that I can leave a lot later and avoid taking an extra day off of work
If you have any significant travel time some people (like myself) would still have to come up Thursday so avoiding the hotel cost is not really the issue. Not having to get their early enough to get a badge means does however mean that I can leave a lot later and avoid taking an extra day off of work
It should save everyone at least one vacation day, if not a vacation day and a hotel night, all for the cost of postage and for someone to stick a badge in an envelope and lick it.
@Alex Leavitt: Hey Alex, I went and saw your Anime in Academia panel and I gotta say I was very impressed and you guys kept me engaged for every single second. EDIT: I look forward to seeing any other panel you run in the future, keep it up.
@Alex Leavitt: Hey Alex, I went and saw your Anime in Academia panel and I gotta say I was very impressed and you guys kept me engaged for every single second. EDIT: I look forward to seeing any other panel you run in the future, keep it up.
Thanks for coming! We're going to do another at New York Anime Festival (and I'm doing a handful of my own panels as well).
Now that the PAX Late Show (PAX Late Night) is announced and public, I can say simply that this is one tiny portion of the sort of upped ante that we've for the last half-decade been trying to bring to Otakon. Even Katsucon and Anime Boston let us do primitive versions of this kind of event: they lacked only the amazing support staff, surprising zeal, and technical assets that PAX is bringing to the table, but offered what they could given their resources. PAX is going above and beyond: I can't wait to announce who our musical act is, and the people we're working with on this are badasses each and every one.
Otakon wasn't interested in the slightest. Not even if the event had been 100% drop-in (no work required from Otakon at all). When most of the cons we attend give us great latitude in return for not having to provide other resources, and the rest (like PAX) bend over backward to give us anything we could possibly need, it becomes very challenging to work with a con that provides neither the latitude nor the resources (nevermind a schedule or any timely communication). It shouldn't be a battle every step of the way just to run a couple of panels or help our fellow staff complete the schedule. It shouldn't be a battle to help make the con better.
Recall years ago when we complained about Connecticon's panel programming on the show. They emailed us scant days later and said "put up or shut up." We put up, and ran eleven panels that next year. Then we ran an entire panel room. Now, we run the panels department.
My love of PAX is twofold. From the front-end, it's the most fun I have at any convention year-round. From the back-end, everyone involved is professional (despite being volunteers), geeky, and badass. The culture of the PAX volunteers is 180* away from the culture of Otakon staff. Their single, solitary goal can be summed up simply as "let's do whatever we can to make awesome things happen for three days." They're self-motivated. There's no outward drama. There's no irrational fear of outside conventions or "professionals." They act more like professionals than real "professionals" typically do.
There's no reason Otakon can't be just as good, even while maintaining its uniqueness and focus. Otakon should be the best anime con there is, with the best programming, the best panels, the best staff, the best everything. They should already be contacting panelists for next year.
Awesome that your doing a late show, only one night?
I love working at PAX, for me its the best way to see the show, the real reason I think the volunteer crew is so successful is that it tries to be an active community year round. Of course PAX is the main and primary event, but even right now east coast only Enforcers are organizing fun trips and get together completely independent of Prime. This sense of shared community (and seeing each other outside of the 3 hectic days of PAX) makes it so much easier to instill the core values and also hold ourselves self accountable. It also forces new volunteers to conform or not come back. When there is drama or issues its all handled internally with no external signs.
It also helps that ultimately its not a democracy but a relatively benevolent dictatorship.
Awesome that your doing a late show, only one night?
You want us to do TWO? Are you trying to kill us?
At the European Juggling Convention a few weeks ago I organised six shows in six days, though two shows too place the same night. I also hosted two of the shows, and took part in another. I had to be the first at the morning meeting (11am, 5 days in a row, had a few afternoons off, then run the shows each evening, finishing between 10pm, or sometimes 3am). Each show had an audience of about 1000, and lasted between one and two and a half hours. Meanwhile I got drunk many nights, and didn't host one show because I was too hungover.
Sorry, I like gaming, but I get enough of it here in Berlin. There's no need for me to add more festivals or conventions to me schedule. Not unless they pay me my professional fee, which most don't.
Sorry, I like gaming, but I get enough of it here in Berlin. There's no need for me to add more festivals or conventions to me schedule. Not unless they pay me my professional fee, which most don't.
Comments
I do disagree about attending small cons first, however. My first con was small and shitty, to the point that I almost didn't bother going to Otakon. Otakon 2002 was my first proper con, and it was amazing.
And, around here, AX is practically everybody's first and only anime con. And, clearly, its size has not turned any significant number of people off.
If you go to a small, shitty con it will be shitty. You have to go to a small con that is good, Rym. Durr. Don't be an idiot. Small does not mean 50 people. It means between 500 and 5000 people.
I guess Dragoncon would be the biggest geek con that is pan-geek. It has gaming and scifi and even skepticism tracks. FanExpo Canada also might be the biggest pan-geek con. I think it's the biggest geek con in Canada, period.
But yes, there should definitely be an Otakon-sized convention that is pan-geek. I think the best chance to make it happen is to start it from scratch in Vegas. Vegas has the biggest convention center, so there is effectively unlimited growth potential. There's also limited competition as the nearest big cons are pretty far away geographically. Austin, TX would be another strong contender because there is a strong geek community living there, but you have competing events like SXSW and such.
Otakon 2010 definitely wasn't the best one I've been to, but I still had an extraordinary time. My friends and I arrived on Thursday, picked up our badges, and while we were at dinner, we all took out our schedules and planned the events we definitely wanted to see. We went and got food from a grocery store, checked our maps to make sure we had a good idea of where the panels we wanted to go to were located, and fell asleep Thursday night prepared and excited for the coming day. Friday was great, we all saw some great panels, had some great times in the AA, and even helped rescue a poor cosplayer who got stuck in an escalator. A couple of my friends chose to opt out on the rave Friday night, so they stayed in and played Super Smash on the gamecube we brought. Saturday and Sunday were much the same. There were quite a few panels that had long lines, but if you bring your DS you can easily entertain yourself with pictochat. When the "fire" happened, my friend Molly whipped out UNO and we entertained ourselves outside playing against other con-goers.
I seriously think that if you have a bad experience, it's probably your own fault. There's plenty to do at Otakon, and if you disagree, you're not doing it right.
Also, to all of you people who are not coming to Otakon because they won't mail badges, it's not that bad. I picked up my badge in five minutes, FIVE MINUTES! As long as you pre-reg and have your ID and e-mail verification with you, getting your badge is a quick and easy process. Again, I disagree. It's almost easier to meet people in an extremely crowded con. Lines are an instant opening for conversation. Even bumping into someone is an opening for conversation. I met a super-cool cosplayer this year by accidentally bumping into her wings!
The real trouble isn't so much Otakon failing, as other conventions like PAX blowing it out of the water. For us personally, it's the crazy, silly internal drama of the staff preventing meaningful change and growth. They'll be in trouble if, five years from now, Otakon is doing the same old thing while everything else has surpassed them. (You wouldn't believe the silly, petty infighting, grudges, "factions," personal drama, and politcking that goes on in my experience so far on the staff. It was painful to watch).
How much better would Otakon be if they actually introduced their screenings? Had a little mini-panel before each one? Scheduled blocks of interesting screenings ("Anime You Never Thought You'd Like" or "Robot Shows Aren't Always About Robots") of the first episodes of several different shows along a theme?
How about if Otakon actively sought out professional panelists (anime fan film professors, entertainers, etc...) to supplement their fan panels, raising the bar of content? What if the panels department started working right after Otakon ended, and not long after the new year? What if they properly cleared the rooms between every panel (unambiguously) and enforced the half-hour gaps? What if they'd had Daryl Surat do his dangerously popular "Anime's Craziest Deaths" this year as an 18+ panel in the largest panel room? (There was no legitimate reason not to but hard feelings and drama within the staff, so far as a few email conversations I had would indicate). What if they'd had the amazing "Super Art Fight!" instead of or in addition to the much tamer "Iron Artist?" What if they had a late show at the con? A morning show? Moderated topical roundtables with the guests (Japanese AND English)?
What if they fixed the screening rooms so that the subtitles were visible? What if they did something different with the rave (to deal with the smell and overcrowding)? What if they did mail the badges?
What if they actually tried to sell the attendees on seeing the Japanese guests? What if they had a keynote as part of opening ceremonies? What if they gave more props to the volunteers?
Otakon could be so much better, but the pace of chance and the attitudes of the majority of the staff effectively prevent it. (Look at the Otakon feedback thread: one of the few repeated complaints revolves around the staff being rude/surly/uninformed). I've always had fun at Otakon, and expect that I would have this year, but imagine the potential if the staff had both the skill and the will to make it unambiguously better every single year!
People who have been to cons are very different from people who have not when they are approaching a convention. Sometimes it can be difficult to put yourself into the shoes of a person who hasn't ever been to a con and doesn't know what the hell it's going to be like. And of course, not every single newbie fits into this description. I have found, though, that it is more common than not.
EDIT: I look forward to seeing any other panel you run in the future, keep it up.
Otakon wasn't interested in the slightest. Not even if the event had been 100% drop-in (no work required from Otakon at all). When most of the cons we attend give us great latitude in return for not having to provide other resources, and the rest (like PAX) bend over backward to give us anything we could possibly need, it becomes very challenging to work with a con that provides neither the latitude nor the resources (nevermind a schedule or any timely communication). It shouldn't be a battle every step of the way just to run a couple of panels or help our fellow staff complete the schedule. It shouldn't be a battle to help make the con better.
Recall years ago when we complained about Connecticon's panel programming on the show. They emailed us scant days later and said "put up or shut up." We put up, and ran eleven panels that next year. Then we ran an entire panel room. Now, we run the panels department.
My love of PAX is twofold. From the front-end, it's the most fun I have at any convention year-round. From the back-end, everyone involved is professional (despite being volunteers), geeky, and badass. The culture of the PAX volunteers is 180* away from the culture of Otakon staff. Their single, solitary goal can be summed up simply as "let's do whatever we can to make awesome things happen for three days." They're self-motivated. There's no outward drama. There's no irrational fear of outside conventions or "professionals." They act more like professionals than real "professionals" typically do.
There's no reason Otakon can't be just as good, even while maintaining its uniqueness and focus. Otakon should be the best anime con there is, with the best programming, the best panels, the best staff, the best everything. They should already be contacting panelists for next year.
I love working at PAX, for me its the best way to see the show, the real reason I think the volunteer crew is so successful is that it tries to be an active community year round. Of course PAX is the main and primary event, but even right now east coast only Enforcers are organizing fun trips and get together completely independent of Prime. This sense of shared community (and seeing each other outside of the 3 hectic days of PAX) makes it so much easier to instill the core values and also hold ourselves self accountable. It also forces new volunteers to conform or not come back. When there is drama or issues its all handled internally with no external signs.
It also helps that ultimately its not a democracy but a relatively benevolent dictatorship.
Funny thing though... it almost killed me!
Sorry, I like gaming, but I get enough of it here in Berlin. There's no need for me to add more festivals or conventions to me schedule. Not unless they pay me my professional fee, which most don't.