The Economist[M]ore and more evidence from social scientists suggests that American society is much "stickier" than most Americans assume. Some researchers claim that social mobility is actually declining. A classic social survey in 1978 found that 23% of adult men who had been born in the bottom fifth of the population (as ranked by social and economic status) had made it into the top fifth. Earl Wysong of Indiana University and two colleagues recently decided to update the study. They compared the incomes of 2,749 father-and-son pairs from 1979 to 1998 and found that few sons had moved up the class ladder. Nearly 70% of the sons in 1998 had remained either at the same level or were doing worse than their fathers in 1979. The biggest increase in mobility had been at the top of society, with affluent sons moving upwards more often than their fathers had. They found that only 10% of the adult men born in the bottom quarter had made it to the top quarter.
The Economic Policy Institute also argues that social mobility has declined since the 1970s. In the 1990s 36% of those who started in the second-poorest 20% stayed put, compared with 28% in the 1970s and 32% in the 1980s. In the 1970s 12% of the population moved from the bottom fifth to either the fourth or the top fifth. In the 1980s and 1990s the figures shrank to below 11% for both decades. The figure for those who stayed in the top fifth increased slightly but steadily over the three decades, reinforcing the sense of diminished social mobility.
Thanks! That does bring some context to the discussion.
It's certainly an EASIER path.. I think. I dunno, I don't really want to try. I also know it's painfully easy to get in over your head with debt, which I think should be considered when looking at anyone's salary.
I mean, it's great to have an $80k a year salary, but if you're paying $50k/year in debt payments it's not that awesome anymore.
Is there a study that breaks down why people stop moving up? Are there certain financial or personal disasters that have a very negative impact on your ability to move upward as opposed to glass ceiling type issues that prevent one from climbing higher?
Is there a study that breaks down why people stop moving up? Are there certain financial or personal disasters that have a very negative impact on your ability to move upward as opposed to glass ceiling type issues that prevent one from climbing higher?
Education is often a very limiting factor - if you grow up in a less wealthy neighborhood, you tend to go to worse schools for less time, which has a direct correlation with being less wealthy.
Is there a study that breaks down why people stop moving up? Are there certain financial or personal disasters that have a very negative impact on your ability to move upward as opposed to glass ceiling type issues that prevent one from climbing higher?
Illness and accidents would certainly keep you from moving upward. Aside from that, massed layoffs that have little to do with your personal ability to work or quality of the work you do. Also, if you are saddled with massive debt all of the sudden (child, having to support a spouse out of work, being saddled with a dead parent's debt) you may then be far less willing to be as aggressive in climbing the ladder. You may want to stick with safer, more stable jobs. Also, climbing the ladder tends to require a lot of time and effort, which you may not have anymore.
Either way that didn't answer your question. I'm not sure if there's a study out there that talks about why people stop moving up.
Seriously? I make a joke about how if you are in the top ten list of richest people there is a 30% chance you earned your way onto the list and now I'm trolling?
Or did you think I meant everyone has a 30% chance to make it into the top ten richest people list?
Bloomberg, Soros, Jobs, Gates, Wozniak, the Google guys, woman who wrote Harry Potter, Beatles..
You are aware that six of the people on the list you just gave are not even American, making you argument about American social mobility moot, you are in part measuring the social mobility of Europeans, who have different circumstances and levels of government assistance.
You are aware that six of the people on the list you just gave are not even American, making you argument about American social mobility moot, you are in part measuring the social mobility of Europeans, who have different circumstances and levels of government assistance.
I did ask for a clarification as to whether we were limiting the discussion to America's Mega rich and in a follow up speckospock did refer to the top ten richest people in the world.
So, yeah. My bad for taking a discussion about America and turning it global. Sorry, I'll pay closer attention next time.
Yeah, the pepper spray was totally uncalled for. However, as dickish as the cops are in these vids, I have heard from my co-workers who were at the protest that some of the kids were obnoxious to random cops seemingly out of nowhere. They are probably getting pretty temperamental after a week of this shit. Fuck the police. Also, fuck the protesters for the most part. I feel like we could come up with a better civil demonstration/performance art to get our message out. The Arab Spring this is not.
However, as dickish as the cops are in these vids, I have heard from my co-workers who were at the protest that some of the kids were obnoxious to random cops seemingly out of nowhere. They are probably getting pretty temperamental after a week of this shit.
Unacceptable. They need to be above that. There is a huge difference in power both politically and physically. With increased power comes increased responsibility.
From what I can tell, the majority of the police were kind and professional. But, if they do not pursue those who sully their name and bring them to justice for an abuse of power, they are almost as bad. I hope this does not get covered up by the NYPD union and the NYC government.
Yes, they ought to be, but they are cranky humans with tempers. I like the cops usually, but sometimes there are cops on bad power trips, etc. which is unfortunate. I don't think this is the worst police brutality, but that pepper spray was just plain mean, and that video where the police tackle a kid who calmly asked him a question is really sucky.
I'm pretty sure that's the first time I've ever seen that gif. I've seen similar ones of a person banging their head on a computer keyboard, but I like this one better.
Comments
What about downward mobility?
I mean, it's great to have an $80k a year salary, but if you're paying $50k/year in debt payments it's not that awesome anymore.
LUUUUUUULULZL I WAS TROLLING YOUS
Either way that didn't answer your question. I'm not sure if there's a study out there that talks about why people stop moving up.
Or did you think I meant everyone has a 30% chance to make it into the top ten richest people list?
In the spirit of fairness, however, I present the above link.
So, yeah. My bad for taking a discussion about America and turning it global. Sorry, I'll pay closer attention next time.
However, as dickish as the cops are in these vids, I have heard from my co-workers who were at the protest that some of the kids were obnoxious to random cops seemingly out of nowhere. They are probably getting pretty temperamental after a week of this shit.
Fuck the police. Also, fuck the protesters for the most part. I feel like we could come up with a better civil demonstration/performance art to get our message out. The Arab Spring this is not.
From what I can tell, the majority of the police were kind and professional. But, if they do not pursue those who sully their name and bring them to justice for an abuse of power, they are almost as bad. I hope this does not get covered up by the NYPD union and the NYC government.
Edited for clarity.
Yup, sums this thread up pretty well.