Guys, let's focus on the good news. The GOP helped shoot down the PATRIOT Act renewal today. The new junior reps pulled the rug out from under the leadership and voted against the order, and they're expected to block it from going to the Senate.
Happy thoughts, guys, happy thoughts. Ignore the lunatic fringe.
Happy thoughts, guys, happy thoughts. Ignore the lunatic fringe.
Except that the GOP members voting against this are the lunatic fringe by and large. It's the new ultraconservative teabag types who oppose it solely on the principle of small government. The enemy of my enemy is often the very same enemy.
Faux News says that Catholic schools outperform public schools and with less money. Let's see how many ways our forum can point out why this was a retarded conclusion to draw. No bonus points for mentioning the fact that they don't seem to cite anything anywhere in the article, or the fact they only interviewed and quoted people who agreed with the article. Fair and balanced...riiiiiiiiiiiiight.
Faux News saysthat Catholic schools outperform public schools and with less money. Let's see how many ways our forum can point out why this was a retarded conclusion to draw. No bonus points for mentioning the fact that they don't seem to cite anything anywhere in the article, or the fact they only interviewed and quoted people who agreed with the article. Fair and balanced...riiiiiiiiiiiiight.
While I do think that the article is biased, and it would be nice to have some citations on the statistics, I cannot say that the premise is wrong. Mostly because this isn't exactly a new conclusion, this has been generally known for at least a couple decades. Non-public schools have beaten public schools on the average for a long ass time (the results of every standardized test I've ever taken in my life has told me such, among other sources). The money thing is a little harder to speak on since it varies from state to state. I do know that at least in WA, the cost per pupil in public schools is well less than the $10K cited in the article.
Also, poor performing public schools usually have the better performing and richer students leave to private school leaving the children that cost more in the public system.
Also, poor performing public schools usually have the better performing and richer students leave to private school leaving the children that cost more in the public system.
Also, poor performing public schools usually have the better performing and richer students leave to private school leaving the children that cost more in the public system.
Exactly this. OF COURSE a private school is going to out perform. The best students are going to go to private schools because their parents both have the money and the desire. Also, the cost is less per student because they underpay their teachers to the tune of 10k less per year. I like how the focus is not only on private, but Catholic private schools, insinuating religious schools are better as well.
Also, poor performing public schools usually have the better performing and richer students leave to private school leaving the children that cost more in the public system.
It's true. It applies even more in summer camp. The reason is simple. Places that are private cost a lot of money can afford to kick people out who are bad eggs. Public and cheap places have a much harder time kicking people out. Both of these become self-fulfilling cycles. The private expensive places become higher quality with no bad eggs, so they can charge more, so they can be better, and so on. The cheap public places get worse as they have a glut of bad eggs, so they suck more, and get less money, and such even more.
The solution is to put all the bad eggs in military academy. Yes, this is a serious suggestion.
Also, poor performing public schools usually have the better performing and richer students leave to private school leaving the children that cost more in the public system.
Exactly this. OF COURSE a private school is going to out perform. The best students are going to go to private schools because their parents both have the money and the desire. Also, the cost is less per student because they underpay their teachers to the tune of 10k less per year. I like how the focus is not only on private, but Catholic private schools, insinuating religious schools are better as well.
Catholic school often piggy back with churches to avoid taxes.
EX: St. Mary's in Ticonderoga is a church and school. I'm sure they don't pay taxes on ANY of it.
I can say this. I went to Catholic school in Detroit 1st through 4th grade.
Upon entering public schools, I found that, with the exception of science education, I was so far ahead of them it was infuriating. The level of math 5th grade public students were capable of (or even expected to be capable of) was pathetic.
In 4th grade, I started learning algebra as part of my normal coursework. Long division was kid stuff from 2nd and 3rd grade. I hit (public) 5th grade, and they're struggling to teach fractions. Fucking fractions. Long division isn't even on the roadmap, nevermind algebra. Half the kids were having trouble with simple division and multiplication.
Reading comprehension in public school (as opposed to private) was even more appalling. 5th graders struggled with even basic reading. Meanwhile, I had to take a test before entering to "prove" that the private school had taught me to their expected level. I tested at, I shit you not, "post-graduate level." The test literally said that. As a result, they placed me in the normal reading classes, as opposed to the remedial ones.
At that age, my reading comprehension was not atypical of my peers in private school. Anyone following me from there to this public monster would have tested similarly well. The first few years of public school I attended were literally, without exaggeration, without merit or benefit of any kind.
The only area where my education up to that point was lacking was science. The Catholic school basically didn't teach it.
Your mileage may vary, though. My high school, despite being public, was what I would consider a staggering model for how high schools should by and large be run. Middle and elementary school, however, were disastrously inadequate, and I credit much of my cynicism toward the intelligence of my fellow men today almost entirely to my experiences there.
Also, private schools can weed out special needs children. Public schools, not so much.
EDIT: I also attended a Catholic school, from the 3rd to the 8th grades. Our math and science education were terrible, but my language arts skills were so far beyond those of anyone else in public school that it was actually a bit sad.
Middle and elementary school, however, were disastrously inadequate, and I credit much of my cynicism toward the intelligence of my fellow men today almost entirely to my experiences there.
You also were in Detroit... Not exactly a shining example of well run government/state/everything.
Also, private schools can weed out special needs children. Public schools, not so much.
We don't need to weed them out, we just need to segregate. Not segregate based on bullshit like color of skin, wealth, or even age. We need to segregate on need. All the people who can't read "See Spot Run" go over here. All the people who can already do calculus go over here. Instead of noone being left behind, resulting in least common denominator, we should push each individual to their personal maximum potential.
We don't need to weed them out, we just need to segregate.
Well, I should clarify.
It costs more to educate a special needs child.
Private schools do not have to make that extra expenditure if they don't want to. Public schools have to. Hence, the average cost to educate a child in public schools will be higher than in private schools.
You also were in Detroit... Not exactly a shining example of well run government/state/everything.
Actually, I wasn't for the public school. The private school was in Detroit (on the edge of Grosse Point). The shit public school was in the middle class suburb of New Baltimore. The awesome public high school was in the middle class suburb of Sterling Heights.
I don't know about you guys, but we definitely had different tracks of kids even in Elementary school (after I believe 3rd grade.) I know because I was in the special needs classes in Elementary school due to my vision and speech problems. Back then it was called "Chapter one" reading or something like that..
Private schools do not have to make that extra expenditure if they don't want to. Public schools have to. Hence, the average cost to educate a child in public schools will be higher than in private schools.
Couple that with the fact that a private school can just kick out any disruptive or unmotivated students.
In my Catholic school, everyone would race to finish the coursework during class, as the people who finished earlier had first dibs on the science books at the back of the room. (Of course, none of the "science" contradicted Jeebus-babble, but nonetheless the point that students were motivated with a fundamental thirst for knowledge stands).
I don't know about you guys, but we definitely had different tracks of kids even in Elementary school (after I believe 3rd grade.) I know because I was in the special needs classes in Elementary school due to my vision and speech problems. Back then it was called "Chapter one" reading or something like that..
In my school we did have this up until 3rd or 4th grade. I have a very clear memory of their being separate reading groups. I also remember there being a period of the day when the smart kids would go to a separate room and do awesome smart things, but it happened very very few times.
I also distinctly remember the day when they changed and the entire class was now reading the same thing. It was quite frustrating to sit there for a very long time and suffer waiting for these kids to struggle through a single sentence in the time it took me to finish the entire story.
It was quite frustrating to sit there for a very long time and suffer waiting for these kids to struggle through a single sentence in the time it took me to finish the entire story.
I remember this kind of thing too. I would get told off for pissing about in class, and was told to read the book. I'd say "I read already." I used to read maybe four or five books a week at home. And then, at school, I spent most of my breaks and lunchtimes going through the library, book by book, shelf by shelf, reading each one. I didn't read every word, not even close, but any subject or topic that caught my eye, I'd read everything there was to know about it.
While at school I learned a shit-load... but that was all despite my lessons and teachers, not because of them!
Segregating students is a terrible idea. I suspect Mr. Malvorich has some things to say about the issue. There is a reason why special needs students have classroom integration.
Segregating students is a terrible idea. I suspect Mr. Malvorich has some things to say about the issue. There is a reason why special needs students have classroom integration.
Sure it brings them up, but is it at the cost of holding others back? If you really want to keep the benefit of integration, then just teach to the whole class at the level of the smartest student in the room. It will definitely be valuable for that one student, and it will likely be at least partially valuable for the students who aren't as advanced. They won't understand all of it, but they'll learn something greater than zero. That's much better than when you teach to the lowest common denominator, basically guaranteeing that you're wasting the time of most of the student's in the room.
Perhaps it also teaches you patience and compassion.
It taught me to skip school whenever possible, and that there was no value in my education there. I realized that I could have skipped the entirety of fifth grade and learned no less.
Perhaps it also teaches you patience and compassion.
Only to those who are willing to learn it.
We do need different tracks, to provide adequate challenges to the best students. We also need integrated classes to encourage and support those children who need it most.
So, let's integrate at an earlier age, and push students from an earlier age. Ideally, by the time you get to high school, you should have already been pretty well integrated, and separating into different tracks shouldn't be such an issue. The last two years of high school need to be real life prep.
Comments
Happy thoughts, guys, happy thoughts. Ignore the lunatic fringe.
Let's see how many ways our forum can point out why this was a retarded conclusion to draw. No bonus points for mentioning the fact that they don't seem to cite anything anywhere in the article, or the fact they only interviewed and quoted people who agreed with the article. Fair and balanced...riiiiiiiiiiiiight.
I like how the focus is not only on private, but Catholic private schools, insinuating religious schools are better as well.
The solution is to put all the bad eggs in military academy. Yes, this is a serious suggestion.
EX: St. Mary's in Ticonderoga is a church and school. I'm sure they don't pay taxes on ANY of it.
Upon entering public schools, I found that, with the exception of science education, I was so far ahead of them it was infuriating. The level of math 5th grade public students were capable of (or even expected to be capable of) was pathetic.
In 4th grade, I started learning algebra as part of my normal coursework. Long division was kid stuff from 2nd and 3rd grade. I hit (public) 5th grade, and they're struggling to teach fractions. Fucking fractions. Long division isn't even on the roadmap, nevermind algebra. Half the kids were having trouble with simple division and multiplication.
Reading comprehension in public school (as opposed to private) was even more appalling. 5th graders struggled with even basic reading. Meanwhile, I had to take a test before entering to "prove" that the private school had taught me to their expected level. I tested at, I shit you not, "post-graduate level." The test literally said that. As a result, they placed me in the normal reading classes, as opposed to the remedial ones.
At that age, my reading comprehension was not atypical of my peers in private school. Anyone following me from there to this public monster would have tested similarly well. The first few years of public school I attended were literally, without exaggeration, without merit or benefit of any kind.
The only area where my education up to that point was lacking was science. The Catholic school basically didn't teach it.
Your mileage may vary, though. My high school, despite being public, was what I would consider a staggering model for how high schools should by and large be run. Middle and elementary school, however, were disastrously inadequate, and I credit much of my cynicism toward the intelligence of my fellow men today almost entirely to my experiences there.
EDIT: I also attended a Catholic school, from the 3rd to the 8th grades. Our math and science education were terrible, but my language arts skills were so far beyond those of anyone else in public school that it was actually a bit sad.
It costs more to educate a special needs child.
Private schools do not have to make that extra expenditure if they don't want to. Public schools have to. Hence, the average cost to educate a child in public schools will be higher than in private schools.
In my Catholic school, everyone would race to finish the coursework during class, as the people who finished earlier had first dibs on the science books at the back of the room. (Of course, none of the "science" contradicted Jeebus-babble, but nonetheless the point that students were motivated with a fundamental thirst for knowledge stands).
I also distinctly remember the day when they changed and the entire class was now reading the same thing. It was quite frustrating to sit there for a very long time and suffer waiting for these kids to struggle through a single sentence in the time it took me to finish the entire story.
While at school I learned a shit-load... but that was all despite my lessons and teachers, not because of them!
In non-segregated classes, I learned only to despise my teachers and fellow classmates out of sheer inescapable boredom.
We do need different tracks, to provide adequate challenges to the best students. We also need integrated classes to encourage and support those children who need it most.
So, let's integrate at an earlier age, and push students from an earlier age. Ideally, by the time you get to high school, you should have already been pretty well integrated, and separating into different tracks shouldn't be such an issue. The last two years of high school need to be real life prep.