At least our aboriginals have been legally people since we got independence. It took you guys until the 1960s to get that together.
Perfectly happy to sign all of their lands over to yourselves in 1786, though, despite recognizing them as people. Also, Manifest Destiny, and you didn't recognize them as citizens without restriction until 1924, until that point they could be asked to prove that they were born on US soil and were tax paying citizens, and if they failed to, they were considered non-citizens.
As for what you say, it's simply not true. The original constitution in 1901 explicitly referred to "Aboriginal Australians" as people, and considered them as such - however, there were provisions against the government being able to pass laws regarding "The aboriginal race"(And that section was primarily about being able to make laws to regulate immigrant workers, so you can see the line of logic that leads to it), as well as being counted as part of the Commonwealth for the purposes of the census. Prior to that, we couldn't really have recognized them as people as a nation, as we weren't a nation - fun fact, the last living Australian who was older than Australia died in 2011.
The 1967 referendum wasn't for anything to be added that would mean they were counted as people in the legal sense, they already did - it was to remove those references, which meant that we would very literally count them as people of the commonwealth. Which we were already all but doing anyway, because they had full citizenship, and the census counted them as part of the population, just not part of the Commonwealth.
We also beat you to women's suffrage by about twenty years.
We didn't, but Australia criticizing our racial problems is like the Germans decrying the history of Jewish oppression in Russia.
Get Fucked. And as an creative man, I'm sure you have enough space in your imagination to just barely grasp the sheer amount of contempt for that statement packed into those two words.
To be fair, while we may (or may not, I'm honestly not sure) treat our indigenous population better than others, we certainly haven't treated them *great*...
We didn't, but Australia criticizing our racial problems is like the Germans decrying the history of Jewish oppression in Russia.
Are they decrying it because it exists or because they think it was poorly implemented? More importantly did you mean Germans or Nazis?
Everyone's nations have done bad things in the past. Can we stop trying to tell each other not to cast stones already? This is the reason race relations haven't budged since the 1970's.
Yes, and criticism of something bad is still valid even if the person criticizing has done bad things themselves. I'm just tired of the dick measuring.
I agree that finger pointing is probably the fastest way to derail and mire a debate about social ills. It's an extremely common and frustrating pattern.
At least our aboriginals have been legally people since we got independence. It took you guys until the 1960s to get that together.
Perfectly happy to sign all of their lands over to yourselves in 1786, though, despite recognizing them as people. Also, Manifest Destiny, and you didn't recognize them as citizens without restriction until 1924, until that point they could be asked to prove that they were born on US soil and were tax paying citizens, and if they failed to, they were considered non-citizens.
It's more complicated than that. Firstly, I think you've got that 1786 date wrong. We signed over some lands in 1786, but most of the country was then controlled by France or Spain, and later by independent Mexico. We acquired most of the country through the Louisiana purchase and the Mexican-American War. The remaining Indian territories were treated as independent nations who we made treaties and went to war with. We double crossed them on those treaties (see: Fort Laramie), but we've done the same to Western powers as well.
As for what you say, it's simply not true. The original constitution in 1901 explicitly referred to "Aboriginal Australians" as people, and considered them as such - however, there were provisions against the government being able to pass laws regarding "The aboriginal race"(And that section was primarily about being able to make laws to regulate immigrant workers, so you can see the line of logic that leads to it), as well as being counted as part of the Commonwealth for the purposes of the census. Prior to that, we couldn't really have recognized them as people as a nation, as we weren't a nation - fun fact, the last living Australian who was older than Australia died in 2011.
The 1967 referendum wasn't for anything to be added that would mean they were counted as people in the legal sense, they already did - it was to remove those references, which meant that we would very literally count them as people of the commonwealth. Which we were already all but doing anyway, because they had full citizenship, and the census counted them as part of the population, just not part of the Commonwealth.
Are they decrying it because it exists or because they think it was poorly implemented? More importantly did you mean Germans or Nazis?
*slow clap* I meant the Germans, but I specifically meant the history of Russian oppression, not just recent policies which the Germans have been quite good at.
The 1967 referendum wasn't for anything to be added that would mean they were counted as people in the legal sense, they already did - it was to remove those references, which meant that we would very literally count them as people of the commonwealth. Which we were already all but doing anyway, because they had full citizenship, and the census counted them as part of the population, just not part of the Commonwealth.
TIL
Then it must be asked, why the bloody hell did you shoot your mouth off - I suspect from the hip - without bothering to check first? This is not an obscure historical detail, especially if you already knew enough to know that there was a referendum(or at least, some change made, if not specifically that) in the 60s.
And, to be fair to you in turn, you're right, I did mix up what land was taken when, and overstated it as a result. Doesn't make it much better as an act, but I definitely vastly overstated the area which was taken in the Treaty of Paris.
The 1967 referendum wasn't for anything to be added that would mean they were counted as people in the legal sense, they already did - it was to remove those references, which meant that we would very literally count them as people of the commonwealth. Which we were already all but doing anyway, because they had full citizenship, and the census counted them as part of the population, just not part of the Commonwealth.
TIL
Then, it must be asked, why the bloody hell did you shoot your mouth off - I suspect from the hip - without bothering to check first? This is not an obscure historical detail, especially if you already knew enough to know that there was a referendum(or at least, some change made, if not specifically that) in the 60s.
Because my dad told me about it and he's usually a reliable source.
Any term that is commonly used to refer to a race of people in a derogatory fashion is a racist term. If we decide between ourselves to start calling Chinese people "trees" when talking about them in a negative fashion, then even as boring a word a tree would become a racial slur.
That's true. It's just that, oh, I don't know, somehow I've been sheltered from learning that "thug" was now being used specifically as a derogatory term against black people, instead of just a word for a generic criminal type of any race.
Many people have been using the word "thug" to refer to a stereotyped caricature of a black criminal/gang member. Because the literal definition of the word does not imply any particular race, racists could use the word in place of existing slurs to make racists statements and then deny being racist.
That's also true. Leave it to racists to ruin the language. It's not that I'm upset that I can't use the word "thug" anymore willy-nilly. I'm just like "how did I not know this already?" and relieved that I didn't unknowingly use it in a situation where my use of it could be construed as racist.
When was the last time you heard it used to describe somebody who wasn't black?
From someone else, I can't exactly recall offhand. I personally have used the term "thug" to refer to Boston Irish mobster James "Whitey" Bulger, though. Admittedly, I've also used it (or at least thought it, if not used it "out loud") when talking about athletes who I viewed as dirty cheap-shot artists, both white (e.g. former NHL hockey player Ulf Samuelsson), and non-white, regrettably given how I now know the word's racist connotations. I guess I'll need to find another word to use as short hand for a dirty cheap-shot artist. "Goon" is still okay, right?
It reminds me of an incident that happened to my mom when I was probably 14 or so. My mom is pretty fluent in English, but it's not her first language. She was fluent enough to work as a school teacher here in the States, however. Even so, the English she originally learned was British English. Needless to say, they typically didn't teach American English racist terms in British English classes in Portugal. She also didn't hang out with the type of people who would routinely use racist terms either. Anyway, she was working recess duty one day when an 8-year-old male African-American kid was misbehaving in some fashion. She said something to him along the lines of "Watch your behavior, boy!" and it caused a minor shit storm. Heck, I didn't even know "boy" could be racist at the time, and neither my mom nor myself would use the term when talking to an adult, obviously (Why would you call an adult male of any race "boy"? They are grown men, after all). The end result was that my mom got off with a warning and an education about a racist term she wasn't familiar with, probably due to a combination of English not being her first language and the fact that she used the word "boy" when talking to someone who literally was a "boy" and not an adult.
To be fair, while we may (or may not, I'm honestly not sure) treat our indigenous population better than others, we certainly haven't treated them *great*...
We didn't, but Australia criticizing our racial problems is like the Germans decrying the history of Jewish oppression in Russia.
Americans admitting flaws with their social structure is about as hard as finding WMDs in Iraq. Have you lived in countries outside of North America (lived like not on holiday).
We are aware as a nation of our racist past and it is worse than you have described, I was speaking of your racist present.
The majority of Americans have random racist memorabilia and trinkets thinking - those were the days. Official group for white supremacy? check Pro slavery flag flying? check Completely racist news station? check I want to see them play sports but not live on the same street. When immigrants move to a neighbourhood in Australia the land values rise rather than fall.
How many indigenous people do you see every day? Wait did you just segregate the majority of your indigenous people so that they aren't integrated into society. You have an NFL team named 'Redskins'. That would be the equivalent of an AFL team being named 'Abos'.
I'm not scared of going out and getting choke holded or shot by a cop because of my race.
The majority of Americans have random racist memorabilia and trinkets thinking - those were the days. Official group for white supremacy? check Pro slavery flag flying? check Completely racist news station? check I want to see them play sports but not live on the same street. When immigrants move to a neighbourhood in Australia the land values rise rather than fall.
How many indigenous people do you see every day? Wait did you just segregate the majority of your indigenous people so that they aren't integrated into society. You have an NFL team named 'Redskins'. That would be the equivalent of an AFL team being named 'Abos'.
I'm not scared of going out and getting choke holded or shot by a cop because of my race.
Wait, what?! The majority of Americans do not have racist memorabilia. Every country has radical groups, usually advocating for their own interests at the expense of others. I can't and won't defend Fox, but I'm sure that if Australia was influential enough we would all be laughing at your idiots. As for Australians not being racists; just google "australia racist", and look at all the shit that pops up.
I see indigenous peoples daily, you might not notice them at first, because for the most part they are integrated within the larger population. Throw a rock in America and you'll hit someone with native blood. Damn near everybody whose family has been here longer than a generation has a little Native American in them. Now, there are issues with "reserves" and the like, but for the most part everything works.
Some people suck everywhere, can people quit the nationalistic dick waving and hate??
Apparently I'm a shitlord who wants Monty Oum to die because I don't think RWBY is anime.
You think you have problems. First thing I said to my brothers friend, who is fucking 'naners for that shit, upon telling me the news was "Well if he does die there won't be any more RWBY", now that caused problems.
Every country has radical groups, usually advocating for their own interests at the expense of others.
KKK, Westboro Baptist Church official, respected, organised and unaffected or ignored by the media. That bullshit would be called out and shamed. But America = freedom of speech unless you're protesting or not white. Sure every place has retarded groups, I would have to be stupid to not agree to that. Last major stupidity was the One Nation party which was like a legitimately stupid and racist party. I would find it hilarious when a representative would approach me to vote for them. I would always just walk up to the their table, take all their fliers and dump them in the bin. No one could every do anything because the vast majority knew they were stupid. I did this in 3 different states.
As for Australians not being racists; just google "australia racist", and look at all the shit that pops up.
You brought this up completely on your own I clearly stated that it is a much more obvious version of racism which I have felt in full force since I was a kid. Australians recognise racism and its existence whereas I get the feeling from American media and Americans I met while I was in University that they thought racism was solved when it is more of an undercurrent and coded or subtextually present till the problem erupts.
I see indigenous peoples daily, you might not notice them at first, because for the most part they are integrated within the larger population. Throw a rock in America and you'll hit someone with native blood. Damn near everybody whose family has been here longer than a generation has a little Native American in them. Now, there are issues with "reserves" and the like, but for the most part everything works.
So the "reserves" can be ignored and when you get to ignore these bits "everything works". Why yes ignorance is bliss. White people who are 1/16th Native American because their ancestors raped a native american doesn't count. I'm talking about in your media. All you have are jokes about what colonists did to the native people rather than any respect. Here you see them in advertisements, sports stars, athletes, professionals and models.
Comments
As for what you say, it's simply not true. The original constitution in 1901 explicitly referred to "Aboriginal Australians" as people, and considered them as such - however, there were provisions against the government being able to pass laws regarding "The aboriginal race"(And that section was primarily about being able to make laws to regulate immigrant workers, so you can see the line of logic that leads to it), as well as being counted as part of the Commonwealth for the purposes of the census. Prior to that, we couldn't really have recognized them as people as a nation, as we weren't a nation - fun fact, the last living Australian who was older than Australia died in 2011.
The 1967 referendum wasn't for anything to be added that would mean they were counted as people in the legal sense, they already did - it was to remove those references, which meant that we would very literally count them as people of the commonwealth. Which we were already all but doing anyway, because they had full citizenship, and the census counted them as part of the population, just not part of the Commonwealth.
We also beat you to women's suffrage by about twenty years. Get Fucked. And as an creative man, I'm sure you have enough space in your imagination to just barely grasp the sheer amount of contempt for that statement packed into those two words.
And, to be fair to you in turn, you're right, I did mix up what land was taken when, and overstated it as a result. Doesn't make it much better as an act, but I definitely vastly overstated the area which was taken in the Treaty of Paris.
Someone say wub?
It reminds me of an incident that happened to my mom when I was probably 14 or so. My mom is pretty fluent in English, but it's not her first language. She was fluent enough to work as a school teacher here in the States, however. Even so, the English she originally learned was British English. Needless to say, they typically didn't teach American English racist terms in British English classes in Portugal. She also didn't hang out with the type of people who would routinely use racist terms either. Anyway, she was working recess duty one day when an 8-year-old male African-American kid was misbehaving in some fashion. She said something to him along the lines of "Watch your behavior, boy!" and it caused a minor shit storm. Heck, I didn't even know "boy" could be racist at the time, and neither my mom nor myself would use the term when talking to an adult, obviously (Why would you call an adult male of any race "boy"? They are grown men, after all). The end result was that my mom got off with a warning and an education about a racist term she wasn't familiar with, probably due to a combination of English not being her first language and the fact that she used the word "boy" when talking to someone who literally was a "boy" and not an adult.
Have you lived in countries outside of North America (lived like not on holiday).
We are aware as a nation of our racist past and it is worse than you have described, I was speaking of your racist present.
The majority of Americans have random racist memorabilia and trinkets thinking - those were the days.
Official group for white supremacy? check
Pro slavery flag flying? check
Completely racist news station? check
I want to see them play sports but not live on the same street. When immigrants move to a neighbourhood in Australia the land values rise rather than fall.
How many indigenous people do you see every day?
Wait did you just segregate the majority of your indigenous people so that they aren't integrated into society.
You have an NFL team named 'Redskins'.
That would be the equivalent of an AFL team being named 'Abos'.
I'm not scared of going out and getting choke holded or shot by a cop because of my race.
I mean I still think you're a shitlord, but I under where you're coming from.
I see indigenous peoples daily, you might not notice them at first, because for the most part they are integrated within the larger population. Throw a rock in America and you'll hit someone with native blood. Damn near everybody whose family has been here longer than a generation has a little Native American in them. Now, there are issues with "reserves" and the like, but for the most part everything works.
Some people suck everywhere, can people quit the nationalistic dick waving and hate??
White people who are 1/16th Native American because their ancestors raped a native american doesn't count. I'm talking about in your media. All you have are jokes about what colonists did to the native people rather than any respect. Here you see them in advertisements, sports stars, athletes, professionals and models. For sure but ask why Greg thinks he lives in a utopian wonderland and anyone who says different is unqualified to comment.