We're not. I'm busy working. I was originally going to do it a week from tomorrow, but Cremlian's going to Otakon that weekend. I might just say "fuck it" and do it anyway, though, because it's a rare Saturday off for me, and I don't want to hold everyone up much longer.
If I may make a suggestion, I think it'd be a laugh for the Two losing teams from the initial game play a friendly match against each other, if only for amusement and so that everyone gets to play against everyone else.
If I may make a suggestion, the Two losing teams from the initial game play a friendly match against each other, if only for amusement and so that everyone gets to play against everyone else.
I've been playing on and off since TF2 came out, and I've never, ever seen one, so there you go.
I've seen loads. Sorry, but your anecdotal evidence is duly ignored.
I don't think so. I've seen many, many times where two defending players have been killed in short order, and the objective was left uncaptured, because the remaining players didn't just go "A herp a derp a der, I'll just keep behaving as if they hadn't died, instead of modifying my tactics".
How many people were on a team when you saw this occur? If 2 players out of 8 on a team die to a critical explosive, that's quite a big deal. 2 out of 12 or 2 out of 16, much less so. Besides, when that kind of thing does happen, your typical attacking team on a pub server are the ones that go "A herp a derp a der, we just killed two defenders but that hardly matters, let's run in one by one instead of taking this opportunity to attack as a team".
Didn't you argue for Vanilla TF2 rather than Neapolitan TF2? Guess what, Vanilla TF2 and No random crits are mutually exclusive. You can't argue that you don't want anything that changes the original game, and then immediately also demand the removal of things in the original game.
Mate, your argument is completely invalid because you've entirely missed the point. It's not vanilla TF2 I'm arguing for; the game has most definitely improved significantly since release. There's no way I'd argue against air blast, because the pyro was almost completely useless without it. What I want is a level playing field where we all have access to the same items, ideally including ones that do add to the game, like the Kritzkrieg and Bonk!. Vanilla TF2 is not what I want.
I rather enjoy a serious competitive game
Which shouldn't be what we're doing. We're having the Picnic to have fun talking shit to the other team and laughing as we blow them up. Or get blown up.
You're the one that called it the Picnic; the term "scrim" implies some level of serious competition, as far as I know. Besides, "talking shit to the other team and laughing as we blow them up. Or get blown up." and having a competitive match are not mutually exclusive. Why not do both?
You argue against random criticals with the argument of "Makes it more a game of skill" and then in the TF2 thread you argue against the Direct Hit WHICH IS SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO REWARD SKILL.
How is it designed to reward skill? If anything, the faster moving rockets only make it easier to hit your enemies in midair, so in fact the Direct Hit serves to make juggling more accessible to newbs. The normal rocket launcher is just as capable of hitting midair targets as the direct hit is, if you have the skill.
Even with the faster moving rockets, if you're against decent players who move sufficiently unpredictably (and are playing classes with decent movement speed, especially Scouts), you're not going to score that many direct hits with it until you get dangerously close, even if you have plenty of skill. The normal rocket launcher also has a big advantage against groups of enemies, due to the much higher splash range. Similarly, the splash can help you take out engineers in their sentry nests, while the direct hit's extra damage against the sentry will just be repaired away. As for the mini-crit damage against targets launched airborne, that isn't all that great. Mini-crits are only particularly useful at longer ranges, but if you're going for a midair target you're going to be reasonably close to them.
Like it or not, the direct hit is, overall, a worse weapon than the standard rocket launcher. It's not surprising that in competitive TF2 matches it tends to be used far less than the standard one. It has its uses, depending on the circumstances, but overall it's worse.
This discussion could probably go on endlessly, but the fact is that I haven't seen anyone put forward a good reason to include random crits, and I haven't seen many people come forward to say they want to have them, either. Out of boredom, I'll put forward one reason for you guys, since you're obviously letting down your side of the argument: Crits are important to the balance of melee weapons, which have a 15% base crit rate as opposed to 2% for anything else.
While that is true, on the whole I don't think it really matters that much; with or without the extra crit, melee weapons are still inferior to the shotgun and scattergun, so for most classes melee will still be a last resort to use only when all your other weapons need to be reloaded and there's someone close by. Melee weapons also remain useful for spychecking, as 2-3 hits will still kill a spy.
One thing that could possibly screw up balance is if we allowed some of the weapons that use "no random crits" as a downside; the Eyelander and Persian Persuader become much stronger in such a situation. However, we don't have to worry about those, as in the first scrim we're not allowing them anyway.
Jesus Tapdancing Christ, you are all a bunch of goddamn whiners. Turn random crits off for the scrim; the less random elements there are, the better. Besides, for the items scrim, there'll be more than enough forced crits to go around.
I've seen loads. Sorry, but your anecdotal evidence is duly ignored.
Anecdotal evidence? Fuck off, Cheese. You know what I was putting forward? That I, Personally, Had never seen one, as an explanation as to why I didn't think they got crits. Is that such a huge problem for you, or do you just talk like a cunt all the time?
How many people were on a team when you saw this occur? If 2 players out of 8 on a team die to a critical explosive, that's quite a big deal. 2 out of 12 or 2 out of 16, much less so. Besides, when that kind of thing does happen, your typical attacking team on a pub server are the ones that go "A herp a derp a der, we just killed two defenders but that hardly matters, let's run in one by one instead of taking this opportunity to attack as a team".
The server I spend the majority of my time on is the FRC server, so take from that what you will.
How is it designed to reward skill? If anything, the faster moving rockets only make it easier to hit your enemies, particularly in midair. The normal rocket launcher is just as capable of hitting midair targets as the direct hit is, if you have the skill.
A much smaller splash radius - two and a half feet as opposed to nine, but with near identical damage falloff, so you have to be quite accurate with it to be effective - much greater knockback(or, in other words, sends targets flying faster, making them harder to hit in most situations), greater self-damage with an identical self-damage range to the rocket launcher - ie, you can miss the target completely, but still hit yourself - the splash is so small it can be easily dodged by jumping, if said soldier aimed at your feet, requiring much better movement prediction, different rocket jump timing, different projectile timing to what you're used to, and despite your protestations, even easier to dodge than the regular rocket launcher, unless you're blind, deaf, and motionless. As for having to get dangerously close, I'd love to see you demonstrate your rocket sniping abilities sometime. I'm sure that getting kills from across the map with it is terribly common with the regular launcher.
Like it or not, the direct hit is, overall, a worse weapon than the standard rocket launcher.
Your opinion is duly ignored. I think we'll instead pin it on your own lack of versatility, and on top of that, considering soldier is your best - at least, if you only look at it in terms of player damage done - and most played class, if you're not even good enough with that to adapt, I think that's one less player from Team Hawk that we need to worry about. Though, looking at Team SeaSlug, I don't think we'll have to worry too much about you in the first place.
Looks like I'm going to have to drop out, since I won't have an internet connection next weekend. Sorry, Team Tyrion. There is one less spy in your midst now.
Jesus Tapdancing Christ, you are all a bunch of goddamn whiners.
You're worse; you're a meta-whiner like Rym. People are having an enjoyable argument/discussion, and you come in on your high horse and accuse them of being "whiners". Guess what - you're whining too, and it's meta-whining, which is worse (I'm sure I'm going to be accused of meta-meta-whining now, though...)
Anecdotal evidence? Fuck off, Cheese. You know what I was putting forward? That I, Personally, Had never seen one, as an explanation as to why I didn't think they got crits. Is that such a huge problem for you, or do you just talk like a cunt all the time?
Not a huge problem in the least; it was far from obvious what you were getting at, though. As for talking like a cunt, I only do that when I feel it's appropriate.
Your opinion is duly ignored. I think we'll instead pin it on your own lack of versatility, and on top of that, considering soldier is your best and most played class, if you're not even that good with that, I think that's one less player from Team Hawk that we need to worry about.
I agree completely. I'm quite happy for the rest of you to stop worrying about me entirely.
much greater knockback(or, in other words, sends targets flying faster, making them harder to hit in most situations)
I believe the knockback is related (likely proportional) to the damage, so it would probably be ~25% more. However, the difference in rocket speed is 80%, far greater than the difference in knockback power, hence airborne targets are much easier to hit with the Direct Hit, whether you're the one that sent them airborne or not.
greater self-damage with an identical self-damage range to the rocket launcher - ie, you can miss the target completely, but still hit yourself
Yes, it does (as far as I know) have an identical self-damage range, but the amount of self-damage done differs depending on whether an enemy was hit. If no enemies are hit, the self-damage is identical to the normal rocket launcher (the wiki seems to say it does 1 extra damage; oh noes).
the splash is so small it can be easily dodged by jumping, if said soldier aimed at your feet, requiring much better movement prediction, [...] and despite your protestations, even easier to dodge than the regular rocket launcher, unless you're blind, deaf, and motionless.
Yes, it is easier to dodge (except in midair), due to the lower splash range. I didn't say otherwise; that is what makes it a worse weapon. Movement prediction is only a big help against bad players, though. If you hit a scout at medium range with the direct hit launcher, good for you; you're probably pretty good, but the fact is that either the enemy scout was a bad player, or you got pretty lucky.
different rocket jump timing, different projectile timing to what you're used to
I've used it before; these two factors aren't much of an issue. However, I will say that using the Direct Hit is not a particularly viable option for me on the FRC server with my latency as high as it is.
As for having to get dangerously close, I'd love to see you demonstrate your rocket sniping abilities sometime. I'm sure that getting kills from across the map with it is terribly common with the regular launcher.
It isn't - except in the case of bullshit random crits. Unless your enemies are slow-moving classes or just bad players, you'll have to get much closer with the direct hit than the normal rocket launcher to start doing good damage - with the normal rocket launcher, the splash damage will do the job. Also, the direct hit is much worse when rocketjumping, because from above your enemies present a smaller profile, whereas the normal launcher is great when firing from above.
(I'm sure I'm going to be accused of meta-meta-whining now, though...)
WE HAVE TO GO DEEPER
Really, though, I've never taken arguments to be an enjoyable thing. It's just a bunch of undue stress - over a video game, of all things! - as far as I'm concerned. But, I accept that people think differently about this than me, so I'll leave you to your discussion; I've said my peace, I'm out.
Fair enough. I thought it was about the argument, but if it's about the scrim, that's cool. Your team will need to use every dirty trick in the book to stand a chance anyway.
Fair enough. I thought it was about the argument, but if it's about the scrim, that's cool. Your team will need to use every dirty trick in the book to stand a chance anyway.
Der. Team Sea-Slug is damned good, when we're facing them, we're going to have to step up to the A-game on TF2 and filthy, filthy tricks if we want to win.
Der. Team Sea-Slug is damned good, when we're facing them, we're going to have to step up to the A-game on TF2 and filthy, filthy tricks if we want to win.
Oh! Now I get why you made this suggestion:
If I may make a suggestion, the Two losing teams from the initial game play a friendly match against each other, if only for amusement and so that everyone gets to play against everyone else.
You must've really wanted to play against Sea Slug, because you figured your team would at least stand some chance against them; after all, it would be humiliating if your team retired never having won a single round.
You must've really wanted to play against Sea Slug, because you figured your team would at least stand some chance against them; after all, it would be humiliating if your team retired never having won a single round.
If it was just a friendly after-game, we wouldn't need the filthy tricks now, would we? Playing stupid doesn't become you, cheese.
I went online few hours ago for practice and man it was fun! Although i main medic, lackofcheese somehow kept going medic anyway when i was in the same team, so i went heavy like most of the time.
Oh well, it was great mowing down people while it lasted, till someone like Vicious stuck his knife up my ass..
I was just already playing medic from before, because you've got to have a medic on your team; if you asked to play medic I would've gladly let you have it.
And some people other than me agreed, vocally (not necessarily in this thread or on these forums), or silently. I personally find it to be a more suitable description, also 'scrim' is too much like 'Scrym'. And I am never going to do Scrym.
Besides, "talking shit to the other team and laughing as we blow them up. Or get blown up." and having a competitive match are not mutually exclusive. Why not do both?
Do tell me how to mock people on the other team when the competitive bullcrap disables all-talk.
How is it designed to reward skill?
Hmmmmm, how is a weapon called "DIRECT HIT", that deal more damage but has a smaller splash radius and minicrits targets that are airborne due to explosives rewarding skill...
The normal rocket launcher is just as capable of hitting midair targets as the direct hit is, if you have the skill.
But the regular rocket launcher deals 1) less damage, and again 2) DOES NOT DEAL MINICRIT DAMAGE.
I haven't seen anyone put forward a good reason to include random crits
Nobody is making arguments for random criticals you dumb pisser.
Welcome to Cat Herding 101.
Best. National. Sport. Ever. Yes, the internet is a nation.
(I'm sure I'm going to be accused of meta-meta-whining now, though...)
YOU META-META-META-WHININ' CONT! Your whining is sooo meta it's going to collapse and form a black hole.
I only do that when I feel it's appropriate.
So all the time you think it is appropriate? Worrying.
Describing most of anything I do as clever is just a little TOO laughter-inducing.
Word. You'd sooner piss on a third rail than think up a clever way to piss on said third rail.
Do tell me how to mock people on the other team when the competitive bullcrap disables all-talk.
Ever heard of typing? Of course, I wouldn't do it, because typing might get me killed, but you can feel free to ^_~ In any case, if that's what you want, I'm not the one you should be talking to. I don't mind if alltalk is on, because I'd be communicating with my team via alternate voice software anyway. Also, there seem to be server plugins that give you the option of having both alltalk and teamtalk. Even if we don't want it for the scrim, I would actually quite like to have a plugin like this for day-to-day use of the server. I also think that for normal server use we should probably disallow spectating of players on both teams on maps where you respawn, since it isn't really fair to spies in particular, as well as some other classes.
But the regular rocket launcher deals 1) less damage, and again 2) DOES NOT DEAL MINICRIT DAMAGE.
So? Most targets are screwed already if they're launched into the air and then proceed to be hit by a second rocket, no matter which rocket launcher you're using. Besides, if it's about skill, then if the midair rocket doesn't kill them, you could just launch another rocket at them or where they're going to land anyway, which will still do the job. If you're at medium to close range, the mini-crit damage isn't that significant, either.
The direct hit is an interesting weapon, and it's far from worthless, but you sacrifice too much by giving up that splash radius. Without the splash, any decent scout player is going to give you a lot of trouble. The lack of splash also reduces your ability to help lock down chokepoints, and it makes you a lot less useful against enemies that are bunched together.
Is it possible to switch on some of the settings we'd have for the scrim so we can practice better? Here's some settings, although I'm not sure we want all of these:
No Random Crits: tf_weapon_criticals 0
No random +-10% damage: tf_damage_disablespread 1
Consistent spread pattern for multiple-pellet weapons like the shotgun (does not apply to stuff like the minigun): tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads 1
Set the length of time for crits on capture to 0 seconds: tf_ctf_bonus_time 0
Disable first blood in arena: tf_arena_first_blood 0
Apparently items are restricted using a file called item_whitelist.txt. By default, any non-base weapons will not be allowed, so if we want to have base weapons only, it seems that all you need to do is make an empty file called item_whitelist.txt. However, it seems that this setting requires mp_tournament 1 in order to be active, which does other things that we probably don't want most of the time. Similarly, if we want stopwatch mode for asymmetric maps, we need mp_tournament_stopwatch 1, which is only active when tournament mode is on. Since tournament mode is a lot of trouble, we presumably won't bother with these settings except for as a preliminary test to make sure everything works properly. If anyone can find a way to enable tournament mode and still have the server function normally, please elaborate.
I don't know what we intend to do with CTF, but if we want to change / remove the number of captures for victory, the setting is (x being the number of captures, 0 to disable): tf_flag_caps_per_round x
Also, it seems you can make custom configurations for each map by making a file called [mapname].cfg in /maps/cfg/ This doesn't really apply as much to the scrim, but is more applicable to day-to-day server use. I'm pretty sure Neito knows about this stuff already, but these are the important settings I've seen: mp_timelimit (time limit for map) mp_match_end_at_timelimit (End the match when the time limit is hit rather than waiting for the round to end) mp_maxrounds (max # of rounds to play before map change - a round ends whenever the capture limit is reached on CTF, or when the teams switch on payload) mp_winlimit (number of team points required before the map changes) mp_stalemate_enable (enable/disable Sudden Death mode)
Let's discuss what the victory conditions should be for each map in the scrim. My thoughts:
1) pl_goldrush Each team has a single turn to attack, and one to defend. Whichever team got more checkpoints in their turn to attack is the winner; if both teams get an equal number, the victory goes to whichever team did it the quickest (i.e. stopwatch mode).
2) cp_gorge As above.
3) koth_badlands The standard 3 minute countdown for each team seems fine. However, since KoTH rounds are relatively short, I don't think we want to play only one round. Besides, we also want to see both teams try a variety of strategies, so perhaps we make it best of 3?
4) arena_sawmill As with KoTH, the default should be fine, but we definitely want multiple rounds as arena rounds are extremely short. In particular, since you can't even change class in arena, multiple rounds are a necessity so that we see some variation in strategy. Perhaps a best of 5?
5) ctf_doublecross I'm not sure how we're going to handle CTF. There was some discussion before but I don't think we came to a conclusion. For one thing, I want it to be about actually capturing the flag - if the game ends with a score of 2-0 where the cap limit is 3, the game should almost certainly go to whichever team had 2 caps. We definitely need a time limit - perhaps 15 minutes or so? I guess at the end of the time limit the winner would be decided by captures, perhaps with some use of individual player scores or kill counts. I think we should only play one round of CTF, so if we want to use a cap limit it should be reasonably high, something like 7 captures.
6) cp_granary We could do only one round of this, though I feel that wouldn't really be adequate, especially given the potential for seeing some variation in strategy. However, I don't know how long a single round would take. If it only takes 6 minutes or so, then we can do best of 3.
Comments
It's fine because we had an extra person.
Besides, when that kind of thing does happen, your typical attacking team on a pub server are the ones that go "A herp a derp a der, we just killed two defenders but that hardly matters, let's run in one by one instead of taking this opportunity to attack as a team". Mate, your argument is completely invalid because you've entirely missed the point. It's not vanilla TF2 I'm arguing for; the game has most definitely improved significantly since release. There's no way I'd argue against air blast, because the pyro was almost completely useless without it. What I want is a level playing field where we all have access to the same items, ideally including ones that do add to the game, like the Kritzkrieg and Bonk!. Vanilla TF2 is not what I want. You're the one that called it the Picnic; the term "scrim" implies some level of serious competition, as far as I know. Besides, "talking shit to the other team and laughing as we blow them up. Or get blown up." and having a competitive match are not mutually exclusive. Why not do both? How is it designed to reward skill? If anything, the faster moving rockets only make it easier to hit your enemies in midair, so in fact the Direct Hit serves to make juggling more accessible to newbs. The normal rocket launcher is just as capable of hitting midair targets as the direct hit is, if you have the skill.
Even with the faster moving rockets, if you're against decent players who move sufficiently unpredictably (and are playing classes with decent movement speed, especially Scouts), you're not going to score that many direct hits with it until you get dangerously close, even if you have plenty of skill. The normal rocket launcher also has a big advantage against groups of enemies, due to the much higher splash range. Similarly, the splash can help you take out engineers in their sentry nests, while the direct hit's extra damage against the sentry will just be repaired away.
As for the mini-crit damage against targets launched airborne, that isn't all that great. Mini-crits are only particularly useful at longer ranges, but if you're going for a midair target you're going to be reasonably close to them.
Like it or not, the direct hit is, overall, a worse weapon than the standard rocket launcher. It's not surprising that in competitive TF2 matches it tends to be used far less than the standard one. It has its uses, depending on the circumstances, but overall it's worse.
This discussion could probably go on endlessly, but the fact is that I haven't seen anyone put forward a good reason to include random crits, and I haven't seen many people come forward to say they want to have them, either.
Out of boredom, I'll put forward one reason for you guys, since you're obviously letting down your side of the argument: Crits are important to the balance of melee weapons, which have a 15% base crit rate as opposed to 2% for anything else.
While that is true, on the whole I don't think it really matters that much; with or without the extra crit, melee weapons are still inferior to the shotgun and scattergun, so for most classes melee will still be a last resort to use only when all your other weapons need to be reloaded and there's someone close by. Melee weapons also remain useful for spychecking, as 2-3 hits will still kill a spy.
One thing that could possibly screw up balance is if we allowed some of the weapons that use "no random crits" as a downside; the Eyelander and Persian Persuader become much stronger in such a situation. However, we don't have to worry about those, as in the first scrim we're not allowing them anyway.
Welcome to Cat Herding 101.
Really, though, I've never taken arguments to be an enjoyable thing. It's just a bunch of undue stress - over a video game, of all things! - as far as I'm concerned. But, I accept that people think differently about this than me, so I'll leave you to your discussion; I've said my peace, I'm out.
It wouldn't be a good plan, if I told the enemy all about it.
Edit - Took out the word clever. Describing most of anything I do as clever is just a little TOO laughter-inducing.
Oh well, it was great mowing down people while it lasted, till someone like Vicious stuck his knife up my ass..
In any case, if that's what you want, I'm not the one you should be talking to. I don't mind if alltalk is on, because I'd be communicating with my team via alternate voice software anyway. Also, there seem to be server plugins that give you the option of having both alltalk and teamtalk. Even if we don't want it for the scrim, I would actually quite like to have a plugin like this for day-to-day use of the server. I also think that for normal server use we should probably disallow spectating of players on both teams on maps where you respawn, since it isn't really fair to spies in particular, as well as some other classes. So? Most targets are screwed already if they're launched into the air and then proceed to be hit by a second rocket, no matter which rocket launcher you're using. Besides, if it's about skill, then if the midair rocket doesn't kill them, you could just launch another rocket at them or where they're going to land anyway, which will still do the job.
If you're at medium to close range, the mini-crit damage isn't that significant, either.
The direct hit is an interesting weapon, and it's far from worthless, but you sacrifice too much by giving up that splash radius. Without the splash, any decent scout player is going to give you a lot of trouble. The lack of splash also reduces your ability to help lock down chokepoints, and it makes you a lot less useful against enemies that are bunched together.
Here's some settings, although I'm not sure we want all of these:
No Random Crits:
tf_weapon_criticals 0
No random +-10% damage:
tf_damage_disablespread 1
Consistent spread pattern for multiple-pellet weapons like the shotgun (does not apply to stuff like the minigun):
tf_use_fixed_weaponspreads 1
Set the length of time for crits on capture to 0 seconds:
tf_ctf_bonus_time 0
Disable first blood in arena:
tf_arena_first_blood 0
Apparently items are restricted using a file called item_whitelist.txt. By default, any non-base weapons will not be allowed, so if we want to have base weapons only, it seems that all you need to do is make an empty file called item_whitelist.txt.
However, it seems that this setting requires mp_tournament 1 in order to be active, which does other things that we probably don't want most of the time. Similarly, if we want stopwatch mode for asymmetric maps, we need mp_tournament_stopwatch 1, which is only active when tournament mode is on. Since tournament mode is a lot of trouble, we presumably won't bother with these settings except for as a preliminary test to make sure everything works properly. If anyone can find a way to enable tournament mode and still have the server function normally, please elaborate.
I don't know what we intend to do with CTF, but if we want to change / remove the number of captures for victory, the setting is (x being the number of captures, 0 to disable):
tf_flag_caps_per_round x
Also, it seems you can make custom configurations for each map by making a file called [mapname].cfg in /maps/cfg/
This doesn't really apply as much to the scrim, but is more applicable to day-to-day server use. I'm pretty sure Neito knows about this stuff already, but these are the important settings I've seen:
mp_timelimit (time limit for map)
mp_match_end_at_timelimit (End the match when the time limit is hit rather than waiting for the round to end)
mp_maxrounds (max # of rounds to play before map change - a round ends whenever the capture limit is reached on CTF, or when the teams switch on payload)
mp_winlimit (number of team points required before the map changes)
mp_stalemate_enable (enable/disable Sudden Death mode)
1) pl_goldrush
Each team has a single turn to attack, and one to defend. Whichever team got more checkpoints in their turn to attack is the winner; if both teams get an equal number, the victory goes to whichever team did it the quickest (i.e. stopwatch mode).
2) cp_gorge
As above.
3) koth_badlands
The standard 3 minute countdown for each team seems fine. However, since KoTH rounds are relatively short, I don't think we want to play only one round. Besides, we also want to see both teams try a variety of strategies, so perhaps we make it best of 3?
4) arena_sawmill
As with KoTH, the default should be fine, but we definitely want multiple rounds as arena rounds are extremely short. In particular, since you can't even change class in arena, multiple rounds are a necessity so that we see some variation in strategy. Perhaps a best of 5?
5) ctf_doublecross
I'm not sure how we're going to handle CTF. There was some discussion before but I don't think we came to a conclusion. For one thing, I want it to be about actually capturing the flag - if the game ends with a score of 2-0 where the cap limit is 3, the game should almost certainly go to whichever team had 2 caps. We definitely need a time limit - perhaps 15 minutes or so? I guess at the end of the time limit the winner would be decided by captures, perhaps with some use of individual player scores or kill counts.
I think we should only play one round of CTF, so if we want to use a cap limit it should be reasonably high, something like 7 captures.
6) cp_granary
We could do only one round of this, though I feel that wouldn't really be adequate, especially given the potential for seeing some variation in strategy. However, I don't know how long a single round would take. If it only takes 6 minutes or so, then we can do best of 3.
7) koth_sawmill
Same as for koth_badlands