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Read about this, sadly. A dark secret from a female PAX enforcer
I've heard great things on Geek Knights about PAX and its enforcers, but as we know, nothing is 100%.
Sexual Harassment and Enforcers
Sexual Harassment and Enforcers
Post edited by VichusSmith on
Comments
While Tango is 100% responsible for being a douche, motherfucker should have been thrown out after unsolicited advance number two.
Ambiguity in these situations looks a lot like flirting to the inexperienced (or inappropriately aggressive) young dude.
Also, don't take what I'm about to say as blaming the victim, take it as future advice. Reading that story, the girl appropriately said no many times, and the dude didn't take no for an answer. Whether you are a guy or girl, if you tell someone no, even if it's just to kissing or whatever, and they do not listen to your no, just call the police immediately. Don't give a second chance. If they see you on the phone with 911 they are likely to realize they are fucking up big time. If they snap out of it and leave, the police are on their way.
Dude is a fuck, regardless.
All of the tone of the story is coming from her, and his side isn't represented, and she alludes to having been traumatized in previous experiences, which might color her perceptions of the whole thing.
All that said, even stripped of atmosphere, the bare facts do sound pretty gross especially when he declares he'll be sleeping naked in her bed.
I think my point is what I already said: don't be ambiguous. Make your "no" a very clear no, not a cat in the face, and if the "no" is disregarded, do what Rubin said. That'll make it as unambiguous as it can possibly be.
Seriously, guys like this give our demographic a bad name. More seriously, guys like this need to be stopped (and punched in the dick).
It's not just the abuse though; I seem to remember hearing or reading that most people have trouble saying no to the same thing 3 times. Add to that someone who knows how to manipulate people into feeling guilty because they have "agreed" to something even when they actually haven't, and you've got a critical mixture of douchebaggery.
I guess the only thing to be done is for guys (and girls) everywhere to treat any sort of "no", coy or otherwise, as a hard stop.
That's never gonna happen.
And if she did the silly cat thing, she may have done other things that she's leaving out of her account that made this dude think she was being coy rather than being too afraid to authoritatively and appropriately say "Look, no, I don't want to do this. Please leave."
A Google search shows that this dude's name is already all over the internet. Twitter, tumblr, etc, and his side of things doesn't appear to be in evidence yet.
Guys, like it or not, are often expected to be the forward ones. A preponderance of girls will move on in the absence of decisive moves forward by any given guy. You can call gender roles archaic but man, men and women process things in generally archetypal ways.
So, society kinda programs and sets guys up to be the solicitors, and then punishes them if they have bad intuition. The solution? Paperwork, I guess.
Now, assuming the account is complete, dude is a fucking weirdo and was highly inappropriate, but we don't know if he was following cues left unaccounted in this story.
None of this is in defense of manipulation or psychosexual abuse, but I'm not sure it's time to nail this guy to the cross he's on yet, which is something the internet LOVES to do.
If there's no response from this dude in a coupla days, well then, that will look pretty bad.
In my experience, usually a third party needs to cause a breakup. (I've literally and intentionally done just this many times in my life, starting in middle school when I recognized it for what it was).
I err on believing her story over Tango's (if it is ever presented) simply for the fact that what she describes is almost a textbook case of this phenomena. The scenario plays out almost note-for-note over and over. I could probably write a bot that emulated the behavior perfectly at this point.
“Most men fear getting laughed at or humiliated by a romantic prospect while most women fear rape and death.”
- Gavin de Becker
Many of the things culture tells us guys is "assertive" really is just "creepy" pretty much any way you slice it. Its cause we have this screwed up idea that consent is a lack of no rather than an enthusiastic yes. Personally I don't see why you can't get both ask for explicit consent and still be assertive; just don't ask in a deflective way. Be all like.
"Hello, woman! As a stereotypically alpha hetero male, I would like to touch the shit out of your breast at this moment. Is this a thing you are cool with yes/no."
Correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I understand that will probably not be misinterpreted as lack of interest if a dude says that.
I seriously doubt it.
I'm not talking about fairness, here, I'm talking about temperance and moderation and avoiding knee-jerk reactions.
Rym - Been there, done that. It's not an easy thing to pull off as none of the parties involved are very receptive, not even in their own best interest, and it can backfire in a spectacular way.
I don't.
I know all of my wife's friends (and my friends who are female) list that as a concern.
Now, if it comes to light that he was maliciously targeting women and sexually harassing them (which may be the case. I don't have all the info) then the authorities need to get involved and charges should be pressed against him.
Yes, it is a common, regular fear.
Your post is very dramatic but I don't know that it demonstrates that women fear rape as often as mean fear humiliation. I'm not even sure how it's not almost entirely a non sequitur in this thread, at the risk of sounding insensitive.
Men don't just fear humiliation, either. More like men fear prosecution. Rape doesn't have to be violent or even leave much physical evidence, it can be as simple as a lack of consent, and that lack of consent may not even have been correctly or appropriately communicated, or may have been deliberately not communicated or miscommunicated. The innocent, non-rapist guy is taking on basically all of the risk in that realm. And then guilty or not his name can also be all over the internet.
This is an incredibly emotionally charged issue, but it can still be discussed reasonably. I think you need a lot more than those two sentences to have a coherent point.