Three percent of rape accusations are false, and between 75 and 95 percent of rape is not reported. For everyone 100 people (90% women, 10% men) raped (99% of whom are raped by men), less than one guy is falsely accused.
Sketchbook, show me the part of your study where it's demonstrated that every male human should be regarded as a potential rapist.
And of course false accusation is more rare than actual rape. But then you come on a forum like this one and through hysterics and histrionics everyone becomes convinced that all men are aggressive shitbags who must constantly, consciously restrain their animalism like some sort of Jekyll trope.
Because almost a third (28%) of all women raped (5% of the population per year) are raped by strangers, and more than another third (38%) by a acquaintance. So a woman has about a one-in-fifty chance of being raped by a stranger every single year.
The assumption doesn't have to be that all men are monsters. The fact is that you don't know if a given man is a monster or not and odds are somewhere in the 1 to 5 area that, statistically, a given man has or will rape a woman. If one in five people wearing hats stabbed people who didn't wear hats in the stomach, you'd pay close fucking attention to hat wearers!
I've heard these arguments before... where was it. Oh, right. /r/mensrights. Where false accusations are around every corner. Can you please tell us about sperm jacking, too?
Because almost a third (28%) of all women raped (5% of the population per year) are raped by strangers, and more than another third (38%) by a acquaintance.
The assumption doesn't have to be that all men are monsters. The fact is that you don't know if a given man is a monster or not and odds are somewhere in the 1 to 5 area that he is!
Its unfortunate though that it comes to that line of thinking.
I've heard these arguments before... where was it. Oh, right. /r/mensrights. Where false accusations are around every corner. Can you please tell us about sperm jacking, too?
Dude obviously bitties just want to steal your vital fluids and make you a dad against your will.
muppet I think the counterpoint to that is summed up rather well by this quote.
“Most men fear getting laughed at or humiliated by a romantic prospect while most women fear rape and death.”
- Gavin de Becker
Do most women really fear rape and death? I mean, in the abstract, sure, but as often as men fear humiliation?
I seriously doubt it.
I'm not talking about fairness, here, I'm talking about temperance and moderation and avoiding knee-jerk reactions.
My girlfriend won't take a shortcut home literately up the street from where I live because there are no lights. Of the half-dozen women my age I interact with regularly, more than half have a self-defense weapon of some kind in their purses. Girls have confessed to me they dislike or outright avoid using public elevators, getting in taxis or busing home late because they are constantly uncomfortable. It is not isolated and these are not women I would define as weak or non-conformational; at least two of them could probably kick my ass in some capacity.
Read up on the concept of Schrodinger's Rapist. The constant message women get pretty much all the time is that men you do not know very well simply cannot be trusted and to be entirely fair I completely agree because we men as a whole have a terrible track record both of doing this shit and failing to call out our fellows on it, and an even bigger reason is because we as a culture reflexively blame the victim both for their victimization and the difficulty they have dealing with it later.
Also, remember, somewhere between one in three and one in five women will be raped in their lifetime. Somewhere around one in four men to one in eight men will sexually harass, abuse or rape a woman in their lifetime. It is not an isolated thing that happens so rarely it isn't worth talking about. If you know ten men, you know at least one rapist. That is reality.
To arrive at 1 in 5 you have to use the entire population of registered sex offenders, and that figure has a LOT of issues.
Not true, but fine, we can cut it to 1 in 6 or 1 in 7 and the odds are still fucking gross as all hell. I presume you know ten men? Well, one of them is a rapist. Every day when you interact with people, you probably locked eyes with or talked to a couple of men who raped somebody.
Not only that, but of the 20% or so of rape cases that get reported, and arrest is made in about 25% of those cases. Conviction rates hover around 5%. To top it off, there are thousands of incidents of police treating rape victims terribly. I have a folder where all I do is bookmark stories of rape victims being assaulted or raped by police officers they called. There are about thirty bookmarks in there, I started the file two years ago.
We do our best to imagine rapists as subhuman vermin, who don't exist except as mugshots and degenerates. All sorts of racism and classism involved in it, too. It's because we don't want to face the uncomfortable truth of how widespread it is in society and how many of the perpetrators just walk away from it, and we desperately want to treat consent in such a way that we could never violate it. And we are so wrong.
So yes, there is a fucking reason women are scared.
To arrive at 1 in 5 you have to use the entire population of registered sex offenders, and that figure has a LOT of issues.
Not true, but fine, we can cut it to 1 in 6 or 1 in 7 and the odds are still fucking gross as all hell. I presume you know ten men? Well, one of them is a rapist. Every day when you interact with people, you probably locked eyes with or talked to a couple of men who raped somebody.
Not only that, but of the 20% or so of rape cases that get reported, and arrest is made in about 25% of those cases. Conviction rates hover around 5%. To top it off, there are thousands of incidents of police treating rape victims terribly. I have a folder where all I do is bookmark stories of rape victims being assaulted or raped by police officers they called. There are about thirty bookmarks in there, I started the file two years ago.
So yes, there is a fucking reason women are scared.
Errr, no, actually it's usually one dude who does it to a lot of women. So the rate of rapists is probably MUCH lower.
It might be a generational thing. With information being so much easier to get now than, say, in the 1950s it might simply be that women are exposed to more information about potential terrors.
So it might really be that Muppet went to college in a time when women didn't worry about being raped all the time. Nowadays I think it's a genuine fear among females.
It might be a generational thing. With information being so much easier to get now than, say, in the 1950s it might simply be that women are exposed to more information about potential terrors.
So it might really be that Muppet went to college in a time when women didn't worry about being raped all the time. Nowadays I think it's a genuine fear among females.
Because the sensationalist media likes to ram it down their throats that "IF YOU DO ANYTHING YOU'RE GONNA GET RAPED!"
To arrive at 1 in 5 you have to use the entire population of registered sex offenders, and that figure has a LOT of issues.
Not true, but fine, we can cut it to 1 in 6 or 1 in 7 and the odds are still fucking gross as all hell. I presume you know ten men? Well, one of them is a rapist. Every day when you interact with people, you probably locked eyes with or talked to a couple of men who raped somebody.
Not only that, but of the 20% or so of rape cases that get reported, and arrest is made in about 25% of those cases. Conviction rates hover around 5%. To top it off, there are thousands of incidents of police treating rape victims terribly. I have a folder where all I do is bookmark stories of rape victims being assaulted or raped by police officers they called. There are about thirty bookmarks in there, I started the file two years ago.
So yes, there is a fucking reason women are scared.
Errr, no, actually it's usually one dude who does it to a lot of women. So the rate of rapists is probably MUCH lower.
Incorrect, and a myth that has been floating around for a long time. Serial rape is not very common, and most serial rapists target people close to them; family members and partners, usually. Obviously, there are less rapists than there are victims, but the numbers are disturbingly close to par.
It might be a generational thing. With information being so much easier to get now than, say, in the 1950s it might simply be that women are exposed to more information about potential terrors.
So it might really be that Muppet went to college in a time when women didn't worry about being raped all the time. Nowadays I think it's a genuine fear among females.
Because the sensationalist media likes to ram it down their throats that "IF YOU DO ANYTHING YOU'RE GONNA GET RAPED!"
That, and as a statistical fact, men have a bad habit of raping people we should probably stop. The media mostly obscures the numbers and common situations, and safely transfers most of the blame onto scary black men hiding in the bushes at the park so that the white frat boys raping girls at parties don't have to feel bad.
WTF is wrong with some of you guys? Rape is bad! It doesn't matter if you pull out statistics saying its a misconception of this or that, 1 in X do it, blah blah etc etc. Its bad and should never happen!
But it DOES happen, and I will do what I can to prevent it! I don't care if guys like muppet are butthurt that females are worried about members of his sex hurting them. I value my life and will not risk it by saying "Oh the statistics are so low, I won't be bothered ever! I wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of the nice guys who don't rape!" And by the way we aren't just afraid of being raped, its the fact that (ON AVERAGE) we're relatively known for being weak and defenseless and are great targets for rapists, thieves, axe murderers, whatever.
I don't care if guys like Muppet are mad either. I feel bad that girls get uncomfortable around me and my friends at night, but if that saves even one person, it's worth it.
WTF is wrong with some of you guys? Rape is bad! It doesn't matter if you pull out statistics saying its a misconception of this or that, 1 in X do it, blah blah etc etc. Its bad and should never happen!
But it DOES happen, and I will do what I can to prevent it! I don't care if guys like muppet are butthurt that females are worried about members of his sex hurting them. I value my life and will not risk it by saying "Oh the statistics are so low, I won't be bothered ever! I wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of the nice guys who don't rape!" And by the way we aren't just afraid of being raped, its the fact that (ON AVERAGE) we're relatively known for being weak and defenseless and are great targets for rapists, thieves, axe murderers, whatever.
I haven't seen any statistics from anyone but me thus far, and I'm with you on this one 100%. There is way too much raping going on in general and way too much defending of raping going on both in this thread and in greater culture. I am saddened that this board feels this way.
I'm sorry if the way I have been discussing this has upset you. I probably should have let a woman do this instead of mansplaining the whole thing but I got pretty angry
1 in 5 US women have been raped. Let that soak in.
Are women afraid &/ cautious? YES.
And I'm sorry (to read it), but a lot of what has been said ^ is victim blaming.
Reading this woman's account, I can imagine something of what she felt, because I've been there too. In those situations, there's so much shit going on in your head, that you do things like "Um, here is a cat." I have had a male friend invite himself into my bed and my life. It was extremely bizarre, confusing, and unwanted.
"[He] lives on psychological warfare and mental manipulation and understands how to make women feel as though they’ve agreed to something they have not." This is unfortunately too true. We had been flirting earlier in the evening. He had no place to stay. He kept asking to stay with me, and intentionally delayed me (It was very late, and I had a long walk), and guilted me ("Don't be so selfish! I'm not going to rape you or something.") until I acquiesced. I had one room at the time. I told him to sleep on the floor and laid something out for him. He lay down, but repeatedly woke me, asking to get in bed with me, that he was cold, that the floor hurt. After the sixth "no", I said "Fine. just let me sleep." He asked if he could undress, at which point I threatened to kick him out. He guilted me again, saying if I kicked him out, I'd be responsible if anything happened to him, that now it was so late he couldn't find another place to stay. I felt like I had fog in my head: I didn't know what to do and I couldn't think clearly until he was gone. It felt very much like a deer in the headlights moment. I barely slept that night. Unfortunately, I didn't trust myself in distrusting him, and after much persistence got involved in a short emotionally abusive relationship with him. It was not the first emotionally/sexually abusive relationship I had been in, but thankfully, each was shorter and more empowered than the last, as I slowly learned to set firm boundaries (not soft ones) and to give zero shits about someone who threatens them. But that's a hard lesson to learn, and I don't think many women are taught it. This is not the worst of my stories, but maybe you can empathize with rather than judge women who have been under a pressure males less commonly experience and are better prepared for.
(the above was all written before the thread was muppet'd)
WOW. On preview... just wow. So if a woman mistrusts a man at night, that's misandry. But if she gets raped, it's because she wasn't mistrusting enough?
I'm not butthurt. I'm just equating rape statistics with other crime statistics and finding some parallels between differing demographics. If it's not misandry then it's not racism either and it's certainly your prerogative not to be bothered by the similarities.
I don't think Muppet's original argument had anything to do with how afraid women are of being raped (which is a ridiculous thing to try and quantify), how many rapists there are out there, or that male embarrassment at their advances being misinterpreted is anywhere near as severe as the trauma cause by rape. He made the point that men are capable of going too far without realizing it by acting on social ques that aren't there. A point that I agree with. Since this is possible (it doesn't have to be common) it should be taken into consideration when judging the active party in a sexual harassment case.
Applying that clueless mentality to Tango, I don't think the shoe fits. The words "please don’t use the cat as a defense mechanism to avoid getting close.” acknowledges exactly what the woman was trying to do. He understood it as "no" and kept going, not only that night but on several different occasions. By all available description Tango isn't an awkward nerd trying to get laid, he's a smart bastard who knows he can get laid through force and manipulation.
Now, now. Let's not blame Muppet for this. He's trying to explain his viewpoint, in a reasonable and thoughtful fashion. If you want to blame something, blame Reddit. Reddit delenda est, and all that.
WTF is wrong with some of you guys? Rape is bad! It doesn't matter if you pull out statistics saying its a misconception of this or that, 1 in X do it, blah blah etc etc. Its bad and should never happen!
But it DOES happen, and I will do what I can to prevent it! I don't care if guys like muppet are butthurt that females are worried about members of his sex hurting them. I value my life and will not risk it by saying "Oh the statistics are so low, I won't be bothered ever! I wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of the nice guys who don't rape!" And by the way we aren't just afraid of being raped, its the fact that (ON AVERAGE) we're relatively known for being weak and defenseless and are great targets for rapists, thieves, axe murderers, whatever.
This is my justification for having a sword in my car. And soon for having a CCW license. Sure the statistics are low, but at the end of the day, better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6.
And I'm sure someone in that jury will think its awesome I killed in self-defense with a sword.
Comments
http://www.ndaa.org/pdf/the_voice_vol_3_no_1_2009.pdf
Three percent of rape accusations are false, and between 75 and 95 percent of rape is not reported. For everyone 100 people (90% women, 10% men) raped (99% of whom are raped by men), less than one guy is falsely accused.
Statistics, yo.
And of course false accusation is more rare than actual rape. But then you come on a forum like this one and through hysterics and histrionics everyone becomes convinced that all men are aggressive shitbags who must constantly, consciously restrain their animalism like some sort of Jekyll trope.
The assumption doesn't have to be that all men are monsters. The fact is that you don't know if a given man is a monster or not and odds are somewhere in the 1 to 5 area that, statistically, a given man has or will rape a woman. If one in five people wearing hats stabbed people who didn't wear hats in the stomach, you'd pay close fucking attention to hat wearers!
Not only that, but of the 20% or so of rape cases that get reported, and arrest is made in about 25% of those cases. Conviction rates hover around 5%. To top it off, there are thousands of incidents of police treating rape victims terribly. I have a folder where all I do is bookmark stories of rape victims being assaulted or raped by police officers they called. There are about thirty bookmarks in there, I started the file two years ago.
We do our best to imagine rapists as subhuman vermin, who don't exist except as mugshots and degenerates. All sorts of racism and classism involved in it, too. It's because we don't want to face the uncomfortable truth of how widespread it is in society and how many of the perpetrators just walk away from it, and we desperately want to treat consent in such a way that we could never violate it. And we are so wrong.
So yes, there is a fucking reason women are scared.
So it might really be that Muppet went to college in a time when women didn't worry about being raped all the time. Nowadays I think it's a genuine fear among females.
WTF is wrong with some of you guys? Rape is bad! It doesn't matter if you pull out statistics saying its a misconception of this or that, 1 in X do it, blah blah etc etc. Its bad and should never happen!
But it DOES happen, and I will do what I can to prevent it! I don't care if guys like muppet are butthurt that females are worried about members of his sex hurting them. I value my life and will not risk it by saying "Oh the statistics are so low, I won't be bothered ever! I wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of the nice guys who don't rape!" And by the way we aren't just afraid of being raped, its the fact that (ON AVERAGE) we're relatively known for being weak and defenseless and are great targets for rapists, thieves, axe murderers, whatever.
This is a decent overview and links to a fuckload of government studies.
I'm sorry if the way I have been discussing this has upset you. I probably should have let a woman do this instead of mansplaining the whole thing but I got pretty angry
Are women afraid &/ cautious? YES.
And I'm sorry (to read it), but a lot of what has been said ^ is victim blaming.
Reading this woman's account, I can imagine something of what she felt, because I've been there too.
In those situations, there's so much shit going on in your head, that you do things like "Um, here is a cat." I have had a male friend invite himself into my bed and my life. It was extremely bizarre, confusing, and unwanted.
"[He] lives on psychological warfare and mental manipulation and understands how to make women feel as though they’ve agreed to something they have not." This is unfortunately too true. We had been flirting earlier in the evening. He had no place to stay. He kept asking to stay with me, and intentionally delayed me (It was very late, and I had a long walk), and guilted me ("Don't be so selfish! I'm not going to rape you or something.") until I acquiesced. I had one room at the time. I told him to sleep on the floor and laid something out for him. He lay down, but repeatedly woke me, asking to get in bed with me, that he was cold, that the floor hurt. After the sixth "no", I said "Fine. just let me sleep." He asked if he could undress, at which point I threatened to kick him out. He guilted me again, saying if I kicked him out, I'd be responsible if anything happened to him, that now it was so late he couldn't find another place to stay. I felt like I had fog in my head: I didn't know what to do and I couldn't think clearly until he was gone. It felt very much like a deer in the headlights moment. I barely slept that night. Unfortunately, I didn't trust myself in distrusting him, and after much persistence got involved in a short emotionally abusive relationship with him. It was not the first emotionally/sexually abusive relationship I had been in, but thankfully, each was shorter and more empowered than the last, as I slowly learned to set firm boundaries (not soft ones) and to give zero shits about someone who threatens them. But that's a hard lesson to learn, and I don't think many women are taught it. This is not the worst of my stories, but maybe you can empathize with rather than judge women who have been under a pressure males less commonly experience and are better prepared for.
(the above was all written before the thread was muppet'd)
WOW. On preview... just wow. So if a woman mistrusts a man at night, that's misandry. But if she gets raped, it's because she wasn't mistrusting enough?
Applying that clueless mentality to Tango, I don't think the shoe fits. The words "please don’t use the cat as a defense mechanism to avoid getting close.” acknowledges exactly what the woman was trying to do. He understood it as "no" and kept going, not only that night but on several different occasions. By all available description Tango isn't an awkward nerd trying to get laid, he's a smart bastard who knows he can get laid through force and manipulation.
And I'm sure someone in that jury will think its awesome I killed in self-defense with a sword.