I don't really care if people are fake whatever, if you like it or pretend to like it awesome, get out of my way as I roll this D20.
Well said. We should all just have a good time when we're hanging out, even across different interest levels.
Per the episode comments: it does take a jerk to try to "out" someone. Comments that are either mocking or insular should be frowned upon. On the other hand, for the most part, I feel like people who self-identify all over the place are missing the point... "I am a ____, and therefore." It's weird.
I'm looking out for a fake, fake geek to appear in the tall grass sometime very soon...
The "outrage" is coming basically entirely from people who are bothered by outsiders suddenly appearing in their sacred ground.
It's the RIT Anime Club Music Night writ large.
We ran DJ'd dance parties for RIT Anime back in the day. Anime-themed mixes, dozens of semi-awkward nerds nerd-dancing. Good times.
It basically functioned as the "high school dance," but consisting solely of the anime geeks and nerds. As a result, it was a sort of "safe place" for the awkward stereotypes to cut loose and have fun. They would basically be the "cool kids" for a night.
It didn't work out that way in the long run, though. The less socially awkward and more generally socialized anime fans began to come in increasing numbers. More importantly, they danced and hung out and did what normal people do. Meanwhile, the rest of the crowd largely hung around the sidelines pretending to watch the AMVs playing on TVs and looking for an excuse not to actually get on the floor.
The stereotypically awkward nerd attendance dropped off rapidly over time. They were made to feel increasingly awkward in the presence of less awkward people, and didn't enjoy it. Their "safe place" was "invaded" by "normies."
Basically anyone who complains about "fake geeks" is actually complaining about socially well-adjusted people invading their sacred homogeneously-awkward spaces.
Funnily enough, objectively "fake anime fans" DID, for real, invade on at least one occasion.
One of the two whacko christian clubs on campus actually sent girls in to flirt with the nerds in there and try to bring them to Jesus.
I wish I was joking.
Yea I spent my last music night standing outside the event arguing theology with a craaazzzyyy Christian, it was a lot of fun but totally not the way my last music night should have gone down.
Basically anyone who complains about "fake geeks" is actually complaining about socially well-adjusted people invading their sacred homogeneously-awkward spaces.
My evil side would love to see one of these "fake geek" complainers to really have something to complain about by being ripped off by a "fake geek" con artist or something instead of their complaints about the socially well-adjusted "fakes." My rational side then says "Unfortunately, that would probably only add more fuel to the fire and make these nuts think that all the supposedly 'fake' geeks are just con artists out to rip them off."
I once ordered an Xbox game from a seller on half.com. A month later, I had forgotten about it and realized it never showed up. When I went to dispute the transaction, it turned out that the account had been closed. I was ripped off.... by the fake geek.
I once ordered an Xbox game from a seller on half.com. A month later, I had forgotten about it and realized it never showed up. When I went to dispute the transaction, it turned out that the account had been closed. I was ripped off.... by the fake geek.
How do you know it was a crook posing as a geek or just your garden variety crook? Was there something in the seller's profile on half.com that indicated that the seller was a geek? Personally, I think something like posting "I R GAMER DOOD" on a half.com profile doesn't count... I'm envisioning something more... complex... Something along the lines of posing as the fake geek for months at a time to try to honestly build up the confidence of the mark. You know, attending cons that the mark attends, visiting the mark's favorite merchants of geeky products while the mark just happens to be there as well, going to the mark's home to see their collection of geeky objects, etc., before stealing all those toys and selling them on ebay. Ripping someone off on half.com just doesn't cut it... it lacks the... art of a true con, if you will. Think of something along the lines of the monorail salesman on The Simpsons, but targeted at a geek by acting geeky.
don't get outraged by fake geek haters - if geek-ness is done in the name of fake hipster-ism then geek-ness is still done. Just like if anger and hate is done in the name of pointing out haters of fake geek-ness then anger is still done, we can all see it for what it is.
Easy on the hate - have not heard you guys get so up on something for a while - chill or you will start hating all sorts of things and I listen for your positive stuff.
don't get outraged by fake geek haters - if geek-ness is done in the name of fake hipster-ism then geek-ness is still done. Just like if anger and hate is done in the name of pointing out haters of fake geek-ness then anger is still done, we can all see it for what it is.
Easy on the hate - have not heard you guys get so up on something for a while - chill or you will start hating all sorts of things and I listen for your positive stuff.
The only people we hated on were the sexist dicks who make these pursuits uncomfortable for normal people. ;^)
don't get outraged by fake geek haters - if geek-ness is done in the name of fake hipster-ism then geek-ness is still done. Just like if anger and hate is done in the name of pointing out haters of fake geek-ness then anger is still done, we can all see it for what it is.
Easy on the hate - have not heard you guys get so up on something for a while - chill or you will start hating all sorts of things and I listen for your positive stuff.
The only people we hated on were the sexist dicks who make these pursuits uncomfortable for normal people. ;^)
don't get outraged by fake geek haters - if geek-ness is done in the name of fake hipster-ism then geek-ness is still done. Just like if anger and hate is done in the name of pointing out haters of fake geek-ness then anger is still done, we can all see it for what it is.
Easy on the hate - have not heard you guys get so up on something for a while - chill or you will start hating all sorts of things and I listen for your positive stuff.
The only people we hated on were the sexist dicks who make these pursuits uncomfortable for normal people. ;^)
gotcha - they are dicks you are correct of course. Everyone who has a brain recognizes fucked up thinking, I guess my plea here is don't give them oxygen by talking about them or spend your energy to much on hate - even righteous hate.
BTW Rym have you thought of War of the Worlds by HG as a bookclub book - it has such beautifully descriptive writing from ye olde times but not overly complex to read, I hope you as an appreciator of fine writing has read this book
The real question is has she taken her typewriter to the park?
She wanted to borrow mine, until I told her it was electric, and half-joking, told her that it wouldn't work at the park. She was genuinely disappointed, but slightly baffled how I knew she was going to take it to the park.
Oh hey this guy interviewed me once. He's not such a dick in person.
Oh, and I have on more than one occasion brought my typewriter to the park. In Williamsburg.
People-watching while writing helps get the creative juices flowing, and the only people who would want to steal the typewriter would be skinny enough that I could fend them off.
Yes, but you dress like you were ripped out of a classy nightclub in the 1930's, not like you were ripped out of the donation bin of the Salvation Army in the 1980's. It WORKS for you.
I guess my plea here is don't give them oxygen by talking about them or spend your energy to much on hate - even righteous hate.
I disagree with this a little bit. I think if you just ignore those people, you are letting them think that what they are doing is acceptable. The only way to get your point across is to make them aware that you do not approve. There are 2 ways of doing that. Telling them that you do not approve of what they are doing. Or ostracizing them from geek things. Since ostracizing is not really a practical option (it's not like you can exclude them from a Con) then the only way is to tell them. I believe there has to be some way to make clear the general consensus among geeks is; telling someone they are "fake" because they are not as into a geekery as other people is not something the geek culture will accept. What do you mean by "righteous hate"? Are you more of the opinion we should just ignore the fake geek haters?
The "fakes" are only an issue because they're destroying the insular, stunted social dynamics that manifest within large portions of particular fandoms. (Note: these dynamics need to be destroyed ;^) ).
This this this this this.
I like the way you two broke down the fan and geek categories during the show, and in a way that doesn't stigmatize being a fan. I've seen (and participated in) plenty of fan/geek interactions that basically went like this:
Fan: I really like this particular intellectual property! Geek: Have you watched/played/read this specific iteration? What did you think of it? Fan: I haven't. How is it? Would you recommend it? Geek: It's really great/awful. Let me tell you more about this topic you've expressed interest in, without treating you like an idiot.
Note that this interaction requires good, but not advanced, social skills on both parts.
Also, I don't know whether I'm a 1 or a 4. I don't post on the forum all that often, and I listen to episodes either when they're on topics of particular interest to me, or when con season is coming up and I want to stay up-to-date on the Meta Moment (in which case I might stop listening when the main topic starts). So maybe I'm a 2.5.
I guess my plea here is don't give them oxygen by talking about them or spend your energy to much on hate - even righteous hate.
I disagree with this a little bit. I think if you just ignore those people, you are letting them think that what they are doing is acceptable. The only way to get your point across is to make them aware that you do not approve. There are 2 ways of doing that. Telling them that you do not approve of what they are doing. Or ostracizing them from geek things. Since ostracizing is not really a practical option (it's not like you can exclude them from a Con) then the only way is to tell them. I believe there has to be some way to make clear the general consensus among geeks is; telling someone they are "fake" because they are not as into a geekery as other people is not something the geek culture will accept. What do you mean by "righteous hate"? Are you more of the opinion we should just ignore the fake geek haters?
fair enough I guess we are both going the same way here but our methods differ - I would protest to much hating or judging but I would not hate on the hater which would be the righteous hate - the just hating (which is often the worst kind), to much hating leaves less time for having fun.
I take your point to remain silent is potentially to not stand up against this when it is wrong. I guess my core point here is that this then becomes a us vs them debate and we hate on them and you can end up getting all sorts of hate going in all directions - I think geeks hating on fake geeks just shows me their own insecurities and that the geek doing the judging is a) insecure about his place in geek-dom or b) has some deep inferiority/superiority/social issues to deal with and when this is layered on top of a sexist (or some other immature) view of the world then it is a double whammy of screwed up thinking worthy of the shaking of the head.
We can see this sort of thinking around us in the world in all sorts of places so it is un-surprising that it exists in geek-dom as well - yes it is wrong and we should defend those wronged and prevent this when we can but we are unlikely to change their thinking and we should not hate on them to much for their thinking lest we are drawn down into the hating world they love so much and cant get away from.
I am just wary of bring to much hate here - to my mind this is more about defending people from vitriol and giving these angry geek-ness judges a wide berth, they do after-all miss out on a lot of good stuff in their efforts to feel superior and if they can let go of the negatives I am sure they would have happier times but largely I will be with others on the other side of the room enjoying interesting conversations and games. Fortunately I can't say I really don't know many of these people and those I have met don't seem to have to many friends or end up in the same place as me.
Maybe this is a bit of ignoring I guess but I would always support someone who is being picked on.
I think there are compulsive liars within geek circles, who exaggerate details about themselves out of some need to impress others, but not fake geek girls.
I am biting myself because there was a great pic of a girl doing tons of research and reading so she can create a great cosplay of Batgirl, but when she gets to the con, she's called a Fake Geek Girl. I wish I could remember what the name of the image is.
What's funniest about sexist guys calling out Fake Geek Girls is that there are guys running around at cons who would be considered very attractive, and they are far more naked than any girl is allowed to be in public. Any cries of Fake Geek there?
Comments
Per the episode comments: it does take a jerk to try to "out" someone. Comments that are either mocking or insular should be frowned upon. On the other hand, for the most part, I feel like people who self-identify all over the place are missing the point... "I am a ____, and therefore." It's weird.
I'm looking out for a fake, fake geek to appear in the tall grass sometime very soon...
It's the RIT Anime Club Music Night writ large.
We ran DJ'd dance parties for RIT Anime back in the day. Anime-themed mixes, dozens of semi-awkward nerds nerd-dancing. Good times.
It basically functioned as the "high school dance," but consisting solely of the anime geeks and nerds. As a result, it was a sort of "safe place" for the awkward stereotypes to cut loose and have fun. They would basically be the "cool kids" for a night.
It didn't work out that way in the long run, though. The less socially awkward and more generally socialized anime fans began to come in increasing numbers. More importantly, they danced and hung out and did what normal people do. Meanwhile, the rest of the crowd largely hung around the sidelines pretending to watch the AMVs playing on TVs and looking for an excuse not to actually get on the floor.
The stereotypically awkward nerd attendance dropped off rapidly over time. They were made to feel increasingly awkward in the presence of less awkward people, and didn't enjoy it. Their "safe place" was "invaded" by "normies."
Basically anyone who complains about "fake geeks" is actually complaining about socially well-adjusted people invading their sacred homogeneously-awkward spaces.
One of the two whacko christian clubs on campus actually sent girls in to flirt with the nerds in there and try to bring them to Jesus.
I wish I was joking.
Hit it and quit it.
Easy on the hate - have not heard you guys get so up on something for a while - chill or you will start hating all sorts of things and I listen for your positive stuff.
I actually want to watch it
I'm *sure* it was this episode?
It's still true for a lot of us. I'm even guilty of a few of those on the occasion, but it helps to be aware of what you're doing.
BTW Rym have you thought of War of the Worlds by HG as a bookclub book - it has such beautifully descriptive writing from ye olde times but not overly complex to read, I hope you as an appreciator of fine writing has read this book
Oh, and I have on more than one occasion brought my typewriter to the park. In Williamsburg.
People-watching while writing helps get the creative juices flowing, and the only people who would want to steal the typewriter would be skinny enough that I could fend them off.
I like the way you two broke down the fan and geek categories during the show, and in a way that doesn't stigmatize being a fan. I've seen (and participated in) plenty of fan/geek interactions that basically went like this:
Fan: I really like this particular intellectual property!
Geek: Have you watched/played/read this specific iteration? What did you think of it?
Fan: I haven't. How is it? Would you recommend it?
Geek: It's really great/awful. Let me tell you more about this topic you've expressed interest in, without treating you like an idiot.
Note that this interaction requires good, but not advanced, social skills on both parts.
Also, I don't know whether I'm a 1 or a 4. I don't post on the forum all that often, and I listen to episodes either when they're on topics of particular interest to me, or when con season is coming up and I want to stay up-to-date on the Meta Moment (in which case I might stop listening when the main topic starts). So maybe I'm a 2.5.
I take your point to remain silent is potentially to not stand up against this when it is wrong. I guess my core point here is that this then becomes a us vs them debate and we hate on them and you can end up getting all sorts of hate going in all directions - I think geeks hating on fake geeks just shows me their own insecurities and that the geek doing the judging is a) insecure about his place in geek-dom or b) has some deep inferiority/superiority/social issues to deal with and when this is layered on top of a sexist (or some other immature) view of the world then it is a double whammy of screwed up thinking worthy of the shaking of the head.
We can see this sort of thinking around us in the world in all sorts of places so it is un-surprising that it exists in geek-dom as well - yes it is wrong and we should defend those wronged and prevent this when we can but we are unlikely to change their thinking and we should not hate on them to much for their thinking lest we are drawn down into the hating world they love so much and cant get away from.
I am just wary of bring to much hate here - to my mind this is more about defending people from vitriol and giving these angry geek-ness judges a wide berth, they do after-all miss out on a lot of good stuff in their efforts to feel superior and if they can let go of the negatives I am sure they would have happier times but largely I will be with others on the other side of the room enjoying interesting conversations and games. Fortunately I can't say I really don't know many of these people and those I have met don't seem to have to many friends or end up in the same place as me.
Maybe this is a bit of ignoring I guess but I would always support someone who is being picked on.
I am biting myself because there was a great pic of a girl doing tons of research and reading so she can create a great cosplay of Batgirl, but when she gets to the con, she's called a Fake Geek Girl. I wish I could remember what the name of the image is.
What's funniest about sexist guys calling out Fake Geek Girls is that there are guys running around at cons who would be considered very attractive, and they are far more naked than any girl is allowed to be in public. Any cries of Fake Geek there?