I understand that's a reason, still not an excuse.
An excuse is, "I must perform this risky act in hope that I may survive."
The risk/ reward argument for drugs doesn't look valid. Unless you're drug use is very moderate as to counter the risks.
Excuse: Noun A reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense.
And it doesn't look valid to you because you have your own way of making choices and decisions. Some people may get more enjoyment out of a night of being drunk, whereas you may simply spend the time worrying about your liver and wouldn't be able to get any enjoyment out of it.
The risk/ reward argument for drugs doesn't look valid.
Prove it. Really, because the risk/reward on my Prozac, Trileptol, and caffeine have all been pretty stellar. Sure, those ones don't have (much of) a stigma with them, but they're drugs used to treat symptoms someone else might treat with nicotine.
I'm not denying the values and the effects that chemicals have on the human body.
Respect of due where they are use.
Like I already said, everything can be bad for you when used outside of moderation.
I'm not a doctor to prescribe anyone an appropriate chemical stimulant for whatever reason.
I'm not endorsing prozac, trileptol, caffeine or any other substance.
I'm not saying nicotine doesn't have positive effects.
I'm not oblivious to the reasons people seek chemical stimulus.
I've defined a distinction between 'reasons' and 'excuses'.
I believe people should be held accountable for the choices they make. Even if the choice only effects the individual.
It would be irrational to ingest a substance and not consider the long term effects, and having acknowledge the consequences not use that substance appropriately.
If you want nicotine, have nicotine. Why put smoke in your lungs?
It would be irrational to ingest a substance and not consider the long term effects, and having acknowledge the consequences not use that substance appropriately.
I've defined a distinction between 'reasons' and 'excuses'.
Your distinction between "reasons" and "excuses" doesn't match up to what the words actually mean. I think what you're trying to express is probably more accurately represented by "motive" as compared to "justification".
I believe people should be held accountable for the choices they make. Even if the choice only effects the individual.
In what way should they be held accountable? After all, in the individual case there is already accountability in that people suffer the consequences of their own actions.
Of the people here who do smoke, how many had their first cigarette after the age of 18-20 when our personalities start to solidify? I am going to take a guess that everyone who does, started smoking much earlier. Because of that, even aside from any chemical addiction, smoking has become part of the personalities of those who chose to do it.
Given my opinion in that, hearing someone say "stop doing x part of your personality because it is bad for you" sounds the same if it is about smoking, eating a tub of ice cream when one is feeling sad, or just generally consuming too many carbs and not exercising.
We ALL do things that are bad for us (mentally and physically) as quirks of our personalities. We generally know what those are and accept that to change that is usually more undesirable then the repercussions of continuing to do it. Most anyone only changes how their life functions when either they are forced to, or have a very strong personal desire to. So telling them to change only gets to sound annoying (they have probably heard it before), and eventually just becomes white noise.
I think you're beyond finding enlightenment in my words. I will say, however, that a good cup of coffee and a smoke in the morning is to die for.
Aw man, like hand in glove. There's a great spot near me, I cruise up the mountain in the van, grab some coffee on the way there, park with the rear to the east, open the back, and just chill out in the back of the van, smoking and drinking coffee as the sun comes up. Most excellent.
I recall other occasions that are semi-notable, such as getting ready to go out to a party with theatre lads, in the shower, Lads in the bathroom in various states of undress and drinking, I'm in the shower with a beer and a smoke in one hand, and trying to do shower stuff with the other.
Of the people here who do smoke, how many had their first cigarette after the age of 18-20 when our personalities start to solidify?
I'm pretty sure I would have been either just about to turn nineteen, or nineteen when I started smoking.
I have been cutting down over time - at one point(England and shortly after), I was smoking about a pack every two days of strong tailor-mades, now I'm smoking much lighter tobacco, in much thinner hand-rolls, less frequently.
So telling them to change only gets to sound annoying (they have probably heard it before), and eventually just becomes white noise.
We have. Most people are polite about it, and I'm polite to them in turn, and try not to bother them with my habit - as I've detailed here before. But there's always people who will get on your case, and they're always saying the same thing, over and over, and the bloody tone they always take while they're doing it doesn't help either - Nobody wants to listen to or be around someone who treats them like that. And naturally, when everyone gets hacked-off at their piss-poor attitude, it's everyone else's fault, because they're just trying to help by giving you condescending, holier-than-thou lectures about shit that everybody already knows anyway.
Of the people here who do smoke, how many had their first cigarette after the age of 18-20 when our personalities start to solidify?
I'm pretty sure I would have been either just about to turn nineteen, or nineteen when I started smoking.
I have been cutting down over time - at one point(England and shortly after), I was smoking about a pack every two days of strong tailor-mades, now I'm smoking much lighter tobacco, in much thinner hand-rolls, less frequently.
My experience lines up with Churb's, minus the bits about England.
So telling them to change only gets to sound annoying (they have probably heard it before), and eventually just becomes white noise.
We've heard it all before and most of us are in the process of quitting or cutting back.
I've been thinking harder about cigarettes and why I smoke. In my experience smoking is a weirdly comfortable case of cognitive dissonance. I enjoy smoking a lot and I don't care to stop now, but I hate smoking and I want to quit. I started smoking in a similar state of mind; it's bad but it makes life more pleasant. So Dazzle, the frustrating thing is that I agree with you, but you only give condscending nods to my point of view. My decision to smoke is informed by a very normal, very human situation. We don't choose our addictions, we fall into them at times of vulnerability and carelessness, and until we get rid of 'em we tend to enjoy 'em. Sorry I was blunt with you, I'm trying to lighten up.
No one wants to be patronised, and I don't wish to be condescending. I was merely trying to make a black + white statement, because I no most decisions humans make are emotional ones. Emotions aren't black and white. We're sometimes our own worst enemy because of this.
But I'm a firm believer of free will. We do make choices for everything we do, even if they're regrettable choices. We should be learning from or history as not to repeat it?
The best thing about the rockets is how well they keep the rain off. You can rain death on your enemies and keep the rain off of you, all in one incredibly dangerous package!
There is a tipping point where the fear of consequences is outweighed by the desire for an experience or substance, then you choose to act on it. Certain people are at an elevated risk for reaching that point. There are things I can do to prevent establishing addictions but, looking back, there is very little I could have done in the moment I started smoking. Consdering my previous habits and environment, when I reached for the nearest coping mechanism I was too far gone to look back and change my mind. For somebody in another environment it might be pills, heroin, or skydiving, but what you end up addicted to is more a function of your environment than your decisions.
Regardless, the real meat of addiction lies in what you choose to do long before you light up a smoke. You have to prevent yourself from reaching the tipping point by managing your mind and environment.
No one wants to be patronised, and I don't wish to be condescending. I was merely trying to make a black + white statement, because I no most decisions humans make are emotional ones. Emotions aren't black and white. We're sometimes our own worst enemy because of this.
But I'm a firm believer of free will.
That is our conflict. I'm more of a behaviorist than that. I don't think that people make as many decisions as they like to believe, myself included.
I'm not going to get into this argument, except to say that I agree with Churba on this issue. Also...
If I might recommend some literature, Richard Klein's Cigarettes Are Sublime is a great history of tobacco and an examination of the aesthetic and cultural causes (and effects) of smoking. In a nutshell, Klein wanted to quit, but like the eponymous character in Confessions of Zeno, he didn't think he could until he truly examined why he smoked in the first place. Hence, this book.
4 out of 5 Rolling Stones say smoking is harder to quit than heroine.
But it's mostly psychological. Numerous studies show that physiological withdrawal symptoms are gone in a matter of days since smoking cessation. It's a behavioral addiction after that point.
Also, a good percentage of smokers have immediate success with "cold turkey" quitting. Those who don't likely have other factors at play.
I can't find the article right this moment, but there was a recent one showing that people who smoke don't exhibit addictive behaviors generally, but DO exhibit pronounced inability to delay gratification.
But it's mostly psychological. Numerous studies show that physiological withdrawal symptoms are gone in a matter of days since smoking cessation. It's a behavioral addiction after that point.
Damned right, I'd say. I only start getting real physical symptoms - the shakes, headaches, etc, etc - about 8-10 hours or more after I had my last smoke, unless I've slept in that period. But you can fucking bet your left bollock I'll really, really want one a long time before I get to that point.
The worst part is, it comes and goes. You can fend off one wave of cravings, and keep your guard up against it, but it doesn't come back, until you finally let your guard down a bit, and a bit more, and next thing you know, you're struck with the most intense need for it.
Comments
Noun
A reason or explanation put forward to defend or justify a fault or offense.
And it doesn't look valid to you because you have your own way of making choices and decisions. Some people may get more enjoyment out of a night of being drunk, whereas you may simply spend the time worrying about your liver and wouldn't be able to get any enjoyment out of it.
Really, because the risk/reward on my Prozac, Trileptol, and caffeine have all been pretty stellar. Sure, those ones don't have (much of) a stigma with them, but they're drugs used to treat symptoms someone else might treat with nicotine.
EDIT: obligatory
Respect of due where they are use.
Like I already said, everything can be bad for you when used outside of moderation.
I'm not a doctor to prescribe anyone an appropriate chemical stimulant for whatever reason.
I'm not endorsing prozac, trileptol, caffeine or any other substance.
I'm not saying nicotine doesn't have positive effects.
I'm not oblivious to the reasons people seek chemical stimulus.
I've defined a distinction between 'reasons' and 'excuses'.
I believe people should be held accountable for the choices they make. Even if the choice only effects the individual.
It would be irrational to ingest a substance and not consider the long term effects, and having acknowledge the consequences not use that substance appropriately.
If you want nicotine, have nicotine. Why put smoke in your lungs?
Maybe a step further is the meta considerations . "I smoke, by doing so I'm endorsing smoking", and what effects that may have (as an example).
Given my opinion in that, hearing someone say "stop doing x part of your personality because it is bad for you" sounds the same if it is about smoking, eating a tub of ice cream when one is feeling sad, or just generally consuming too many carbs and not exercising.
We ALL do things that are bad for us (mentally and physically) as quirks of our personalities. We generally know what those are and accept that to change that is usually more undesirable then the repercussions of continuing to do it. Most anyone only changes how their life functions when either they are forced to, or have a very strong personal desire to. So telling them to change only gets to sound annoying (they have probably heard it before), and eventually just becomes white noise.
I recall other occasions that are semi-notable, such as getting ready to go out to a party with theatre lads, in the shower, Lads in the bathroom in various states of undress and drinking, I'm in the shower with a beer and a smoke in one hand, and trying to do shower stuff with the other. I'm pretty sure I would have been either just about to turn nineteen, or nineteen when I started smoking.
I have been cutting down over time - at one point(England and shortly after), I was smoking about a pack every two days of strong tailor-mades, now I'm smoking much lighter tobacco, in much thinner hand-rolls, less frequently. We have. Most people are polite about it, and I'm polite to them in turn, and try not to bother them with my habit - as I've detailed here before. But there's always people who will get on your case, and they're always saying the same thing, over and over, and the bloody tone they always take while they're doing it doesn't help either - Nobody wants to listen to or be around someone who treats them like that. And naturally, when everyone gets hacked-off at their piss-poor attitude, it's everyone else's fault, because they're just trying to help by giving you condescending, holier-than-thou lectures about shit that everybody already knows anyway.
But I'm a firm believer of free will. We do make choices for everything we do, even if they're regrettable choices. We should be learning from or history as not to repeat it?
return to random images please somebody >_<
Regardless, the real meat of addiction lies in what you choose to do long before you light up a smoke. You have to prevent yourself from reaching the tipping point by managing your mind and environment.
If I might recommend some literature, Richard Klein's Cigarettes Are Sublime is a great history of tobacco and an examination of the aesthetic and cultural causes (and effects) of smoking. In a nutshell, Klein wanted to quit, but like the eponymous character in Confessions of Zeno, he didn't think he could until he truly examined why he smoked in the first place. Hence, this book.
Also, a good percentage of smokers have immediate success with "cold turkey" quitting. Those who don't likely have other factors at play.
I can't find the article right this moment, but there was a recent one showing that people who smoke don't exhibit addictive behaviors generally, but DO exhibit pronounced inability to delay gratification.
The worst part is, it comes and goes. You can fend off one wave of cravings, and keep your guard up against it, but it doesn't come back, until you finally let your guard down a bit, and a bit more, and next thing you know, you're struck with the most intense need for it.