Fanservice: A Thread of Boobs and Dick Cutting

zeo1fan

Where do you draw the line? What defines your tolerance, enjoyment, or lackthereof? I meant to categorize this to encompass more, but it only allows one, and I see fanservice criticized rather prominently in anime, so I picked that one.

Luke Burrage

Care for a definition of fanservice, just so I know we'll all be talking about the same thing?

Li_Akahi

Where do you draw the line? What defines your tolerance, enjoyment, or lackthereof? I meant to categorize this to encompass more, but it only allows one, and I see fanservice criticized rather prominently in anime, so I picked that one.

I don't really like the T&A kind of fanservice, but the reference kind of fanservice is totally okay.

Not nine

Care for a definition of fanservice, just so I know we'll all be talking about the same thing?

Any and all kinds I'd say.

Fuck references for the sake of references, screw plain old boring titillating fanservice. At least put some crazy dialogue over it and lots of cutting. And yes I did just watch Monogatari Season 2 ep 1.

zeo1fan

Care for a definition of fanservice, just so I know we'll all be talking about the same thing?

Any and all kinds I'd say.

Fuck references for the sake of references, screw plain old boring titillating fanservice. At least put some crazy dialogue over it and lots of cutting. And yes I did just watch Monogatari Season 2 ep 1.

Yup; any and all kinds.

Luke Burrage

So if it includes any and all kinds, how do I go about drawing the line?

Victor Frost

Sexily.

Amp

You start by placing the cap in your teeth, pulling it off with a jerk, slipping into some daisy duke shorts then just going crazy.

Also High School of the dead would have been so much better without the fan service.

Cremlian

I don't know that the fan service in High School of the dead was so over the top it was almost endearing... :-p

Amp

I like to imagen that the guy who made it turned up full of smiles pitched a great idea. The chair at the end of the table turns round "more panty shots, more tit giggle", the creator slowly cries.

Anthony Heman

Fan Service: http://www.hulu.com/watch/502666

Not nine

So if it includes any and all kinds, how do I go about drawing the line?

One line is enough to draw a circle around yourself if you're that prudish.

Also High School of the dead would have been so much better without the fan service.

What? There would've literally been nothing if you took out the fanservice. The fanservice is the entire reason for that show to exist, and it was the good kind of ridiculous fanservice.

the creator slowly cries.

About what loss? What the fuck did you want from an anime called High School of the Dead? Social commentary?

Drunken Butler

Whats the working definition of fan service for this conversation? I don't think it's really fan service in High school of the dead, It's more of a primary feature.

I propose defining fan service as being something non-typical thrown into an established work to make extant fans happy. Things that would be fan service in one series may not be fan service in others. For example, geeky references in Big Bang theory aren't fan service, and nudity in pron isn't fan service, but either one would be fan service in a Star Trek series.

Nissl

I use fanservice very differently between series. In western shows, it often means using fan-popular characters multiple times or referencing fan memes. In anime I assume it means scantily clad characters of either gender. (And occasionally western shows/movies... looking at you, Star Trek). I'm guessing it's the latter we're talking about here.

I support people being drawn attractively. I'm fine with them being scantily clad if it actually makes some sense in the plot. I have problems when they're getting naked for no good reason, undermining their character, or if we suddenly go to perv cam, undermining the delivery of a scene. I don't like beach episodes that are there just so everyone can be shown in a thong; they often don't fit in a series and thus usually detract from it. I don't like characters that are just there to be attractive either, unless it's for a thematic reason.

Underage characters are particularly tricky, because it's very easy to cross some really bad lines, but it's silly to pretend that teenagers are asexual.

Luke Burrage

To be honest, I can't imagine ever being a fan of any genre where the concept of "beach episodes" is accepted, tolerated, or even imaginable. I've never heard of it before.

And seriously, if you're watching and enjoying shows about teenagers or "underage" characters (which implies you categorize characters into "reached age of consent" and "other") you should either be a teenager yourself or, quite simply, grow the fuck up and move on.

Cremlian

http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BeachEpisode

Nissl

I've learned to tolerate beach episodes, even though I dislike them, because it feels like they're in 2/3 of anime now, including a lot of sci-fi/fantasy/mecha that is otherwise good. In the west, the studios interfere with a show to make it more marketable; for example, casting pretty people who can't act or selecting characters to fill demographic niches. This is the same thing, only for pervy otaku BD sales. It's the dark side of a fan-funded industry.

I do object strenuously to the idea that there's something wrong young adults watching stories focused on teenage or child characters, at least as long as it's only part of their media diet. I mean, is there anything wrong with an adult watching... eh, pretty much any Ghibli or Pixar movie ever? It's all about how they're used and what the show is trying to say.

Luke Burrage

I do object strenuously to the idea that there's something wrong young adults watching stories focused on teenage or child characters, at least as long as it's only part of their media diet. I mean, is there anything wrong with an adult watching... eh, pretty much any Ghibli or Pixar movie ever? It's all about how they're used and what the show is trying to say.

If you object strongly, it only seems to me like you're being defensive.

I was more concerned about your language, as it betrays what is wrong. You used the words "underage characters". Doesn't this disturb you?

If I watch a Ghibli or Pixar movie, I class the children in them as "children". Or, sometimes, teenagers. The reason for this is that there is no fuzzy line for me, in the media that I watch, about whether I'm meant to be having sexual thoughts about children or teenagers, or if I'm meant to find the images of them in skimpy outfits titillating.

And, if I ever do see anything that shows any children in a titillating way, or if the movie is "trying to say" something sexual about them I know it is either:

a: innocently made for children or teenagers of the same age as the characters.
b: fucked up.

If you're 15, I'll give you a pass. If you're past 20? Grow the fuck up and stop watching that shit.

johndis

I just watched the Street Fighter live action movie for w/e reason, and the only part that's particularly cool is how all the characters undergo minor costume modifications, over the course of the last half hour or so, until they all wind up looking like their videogame counterparts. Oh and there's like that five minute or so block at the end where everyone does at least one of their special moves.

Dave

At first I was like "why you mean I can't like the Hunger Games, Luke." but then I thought about the context of your post, and read your second post, and was like "oh yeah I also don't want to think about banging children."

So we cool.

johndis

Oh also I'm super excited for Vanillaware's new game Dragon's Crown but oh my lord their sorceress design: http://www.gamefreaks.co.nz/wp-content/gallery/dragons-crown-sorceress/dargon-s-crown-dragons-crown-22778755-1280-1422.jpg (no nudity but you probably won't want people to see you looking at this)

zeo1fan

The sort of material where underage characters (though the age of consent is lower in japan) are sexualized doesn't make up all of japanese fiction, the same way material featuring attractive white 20 somethings who can't get a date doesn't make up all of American fiction.

Luke Burrage

I think the Hunger Games was super clear about the role of the kids taking part. There is no titillation. In fact, it goes as far as possible in the other direction, to the point where I thought the costume design for the movie was a bit drab. All the kids wear the same costumes which show only their arms bare, if at all. Katniss spends loads of the movie with seemingly too many layers on. If that was a real TV show in such a world, I'm sure they'd dress the kids up far sexier than in the movie.

Rym

Judge an Anime by its Cover.

Just an anime fan by the shows he/she watches.

Anthony Heman

You am play gods.

Drunken Butler

Judge an Anime by its Cover.

Just an anime fan by the shows he/she watches.

Now I hate everyone. Thanks Obama.

HMTKSteve

Luke - are you referring to any depiction of underage characters or just sexualized underage characters?

Azumamga Daioh is about teenagers but the sexualizations are usually framed around that one weird teacher. I watched that with my kid a few years ago and I enjoyed it. They had a beach episode (maybe more than one?) But the characters never went 'out of character' in that episode.

Madoka is about underage girls, am I weird for enjoying that?

Just trying to understand your post because a ton of anime involves 'underage' characters.

Eryn

This is why stuff like Gurren Lagann is tough for me, because that is a great show, but it also has Yoko. Post-timeskip, sure, she's 21, whatever, go nuts. But almost none of the fanservice related to her (either in the show or its marketing/merch) is about that point in her life; it's all about the 14-year-old with booty shorts and bikini top. That just skeeves me out so much, and it's really hard to ignore in certain episodes, especially the partial beach and hot springs episodes. At least a couple times it's made it hard for me to show the series to people because they see that shit and side-eye me, and I'm like "I know... Trust me, most of it's not like this."

It's especially frustrating for me because I kind of like Yoko's character arc. Maybe not as strongly as Simon's or Viral's, but I do like it, especially post-timeskip. But then saying that I like her just ends up feeling wrong because with the fanservice being so strong with her, I feel like I'm siding with the people who like her for other reasons when I say that. Ewww.

Luke Burrage

I am disturbed by the usage of the term "underage characters" instead of "children" or "teenagers" or "kids".

Seriously, you are describing a character in an anime purely by the fact that IF THEY WERE REAL YOU COULDN'T LEGALLY HAVE SEX WITH THEM.

What the fucking fuck? Am I the only one who finds this fucking weird?

Madoka is about underage girls, am I weird for enjoying that?

You are weird for calling any girl underage. If you're talking about a character who was "drinking underaged" then that would be an acceptable usage.

You're trying to say "I'm not weird for watching this" but the best way to make me think it's not weird is to say:

Madoka is a show about children, am I weird for enjoying that?

Apreche

You go Luke! Smack down all the pedos! Would love to see you wrestle some bears at an anime con.

Nissl

If you object strongly, it only seems to me like you're being defensive.

It's mostly generalized irritation at what I perceive to be pervasive cultural attitudes that animated stuff is for kids, or that shows have to be dark and gritty, featuring adults doing adult things, to be artistically valid. As your later post makes clear, that's probably not what you're saying, but it grinds my gears any time it's hinted.

I was more concerned about your language, as it betrays what is wrong. You used the words "underage characters". Doesn't this disturb you?

I've been arguing with too many anime fans recently, and apparently adopted their language. I can see how it's a problematic framing. Let's just stick to teenage characters, then, because I'm not sure a long debate about how much a specific word implies sexuality is going to be useful. But in general, what I'm going for in my original comment is not automatically ruling out something like Aku no Hana (not that I got very far in it, but for unrelated reasons.)

In general I feel like you're misreading my post to assign attitudes to me that just aren't there. I think I'm actually more bothered by that stuff than most in the anime watching community. I've dropped well regarded series like FLCL, Gurren Lagann, and Madoka Magica for sexualizing teenagers.

Edit: and while I was typing this, I see a few other people pegged those anime as problematic. Agreed.