I actually don't care at all about skirt length, it's the camera positioning designed to capture the panties that bothers me :-p
Have to agree.
What about a show like Ranma 1/2? I watched it years ago on borrowed VHS tapes and now I am watching the first two seasons on DVD. I do not recall seeing all the naked boobs 20 years ago and I have to admit that I am bothered by their appearance on my DVDs in large part because it means I can't share the viewing the experience with others because I would expect strange looks when the anime boobs show up.
To me the boob shots are fan service and while they are not overused (boobs only appear every few episodes and usually are story based rather than direct fan service) their appearance does limit my ability to enjoy the show in a group setting as I did 20 years ago. Would be nice if the DVDs offered an 'edited for TV' version of each episode.
"Sex comedy" is an entirely different thing. It's intrinsic to the point of the show. You can have a sexy comedy. Case in point: Oglaf. Sexy comedy can also be titillating.
If "fan service" is not intrinsic to the point of the show, it's probably aimed at creepy people looking for titillation under the guise of looking for something else.
If "fan service" is intrinsic to the point of the show and is the sole point of the show, then what you're watching is porn.
"Sex comedy" is an entirely different thing. It's intrinsic to the point of the show. You can have a sexy comedy. Case in point: Oglaf. Sexy comedy can also be titillating.
If "fan service" is not intrinsic to the point of the show, it's probably aimed at creepy people looking for titillation under the guise of looking for something else.
If "fan service" is intrinsic to the point of the show and is the sole point of the show, then what you're watching is porn.
Well, thank you for that distinction. ^_^ I enjoy a good sex comedy (such as B Gata H Kei).
If "fan service" is not intrinsic to the point of the show, it's probably aimed at creepy people looking for titillation under the guise of looking for something else.
If the how is intended for creepy people who want to hide what they are looking it, then fan service is the point of the show. Strike Witches is the best example of this. The people who love that show act like they enjoy it for the action, or the historical context. In reality, what they actually want to see are pantry shows and boobs. They just want it in a wrapper that makes them feel as if they aren't just watching porn. So, if you think a show has a creepy fan base and fan service, fan service is the main selling point of that show.
This goes for the extremes of the genre as well, such as Kodomo No Jikan and Chu*Bra.
Moe by its very nature is a fetishization of innocence, so K-On would qualify.
Moe is not a fetishization of innocence. Shows like K-On! that have no obvious sexualization are more a desire for Otaku to reclaim a high school experience they didn't have, which is something that I definitely relate too.
Moe is simply a collection of attributes. The content of the show is independent of what makes it Moe. Settings and characters determine if it is Moe. Madoka Magica is about as serious and dark a modern anime has been in the last few years and it is a Moe show because the characters and settings are pulled from the Moe Database.
The main problem with Moe is there is a class of people who cannot distinguish between good and bad anime, but simply want shows that have elements taken from the Moe Database. Which is why you have Akikan and Haruhi both classified as "Moe anime." The trouble comes when anime companies decide to go after an even smaller niche, which is under served and thus eager to spend money, they will draw from Moe elements to also sell that show to the hardcore Otaku. Fans who defend Chu*Bra defend it for the Moe elements they like, and might genuinely not understand why it's creepy. The creepy people are a much smaller subset of the fanbase the show was designed for. You don't hear from them, that's how terrifying they are.
Now my thoughts on fanservice, I prefer the kind that is an inside reference to something geeky like in Lucky Star, Genshiken and other types of nerdy shows. I hate the type that is pandering with boobs and asses blatantly. I even got kinda fed up with it in Free!, that swimming hot boy anime. (Mostly because it needed more yaoi time.)
If "fan service" is not intrinsic to the point of the show, it's probably aimed at creepy people looking for titillation under the guise of looking for something else.
If the how is intended for creepy people who want to hide what they are looking it, then fan service is the point of the show. Strike Witches is the best example of this. The people who love that show act like they enjoy it for the action, or the historical context. In reality, what they actually want to see are pantry shows and boobs. They just want it in a wrapper that makes them feel as if they aren't just watching porn. So, if you think a show has a creepy fan base and fan service, fan service is the main selling point of that show.
This goes for the extremes of the genre as well, such as Kodomo No Jikan and Chu*Bra.
Moe by its very nature is a fetishization of innocence, so K-On would qualify.
Moe is not a fetishization of innocence. Shows like K-On! that have no obvious sexualization are more a desire for Otaku to reclaim a high school experience they didn't have, which is something that I definitely relate too.
Moe is simply a collection of attributes. The content of the show is independent of what makes it Moe. Settings and characters determine if it is Moe. Madoka Magica is about as serious and dark a modern anime has been in the last few years and it is a Moe show because the characters and settings are pulled from the Moe Database.
The main problem with Moe is there is a class of people who cannot distinguish between good and bad anime, but simply want shows that have elements taken from the Moe Database. Which is why you have Akikan and Haruhi both classified as "Moe anime." The trouble comes when anime companies decide to go after an even smaller niche, which is under served and thus eager to spend money, they will draw from Moe elements to also sell that show to the hardcore Otaku. Fans who defend Chu*Bra defend it for the Moe elements they like, and might genuinely not understand why it's creepy. The creepy people are a much smaller subset of the fanbase the show was designed for. You don't hear from them, that's how terrifying they are.
It's absolutely a fetishization of innocence ('Purity' and 'Innocence' are valuable ideals in Japanese culture). Madoka's designs may fall under a 'Moe' aesthetic (they were designed by Ume Aoki after all), but the story isn't Moe at all. Your idea that the content of a show is independent of what makes it moe is reductionist. I personally think Mono No Aware is part of what makes Moe so appealing.
It's absolutely a fetishization of innocence ('Purity' and 'Innocence' are valuable ideals in Japanese culture). Madoka's designs may fall under a 'Moe' aesthetic (they were designed by Ume Aoki after all), but the story isn't Moe at all. Your idea that the content of a show is independent of what makes it moe is reductionist. I personally think Mono No Aware is part of what makes Moe so appealing.
Exactly, Moe isn't narrative based it lies in characters and settings.
If "fan service" is not intrinsic to the point of the show, it's probably aimed at creepy people looking for titillation under the guise of looking for something else.
If the how is intended for creepy people who want to hide what they are looking it, then fan service is the point of the show. Strike Witches is the best example of this. The people who love that show act like they enjoy it for the action, or the historical context. In reality, what they actually want to see are pantry shows and boobs. They just want it in a wrapper that makes them feel as if they aren't just watching porn. So, if you think a show has a creepy fan base and fan service, fan service is the main selling point of that show.
It can be damn frustrating when a good concept gets wasted on a perv show like that. I wish I could watch strike witches with out feeling dirty. I like planes from WWII and I like alien invasion stories. The concept of witches fighting aliens in the 1940's sounded like it had some potential, but then the creators had to go and make the entire cast look like teenagers and refuse to animate pants.
I tried watching it. I got through two episodes before I felt so slimy I had to turn it off, take a shower, and pitch the DVD. Now I torrent all my anime before I buy it.
What if the articles in Playboy are good and you DO just read the articles? How is anyone else going to separate you from the guy who "reads it for the articles?"
What if the articles in Playboy are good and you DO just read the articles? How is anyone else going to separate you from the guy who "reads it for the articles?"
It's not exactly a one to one considering that soft core porn is genuinely socially acceptable but sexualizing fourteen year old girls is not.
There have been a few anime's that I watched because they were on Netflix only to stop a few episodes in. For some reason I thought them being on Netflix denoted a certain level of quality.
There have been a few anime's that I watched because they were on Netflix only to stop a few episodes in. For some reason I thought them being on Netflix denoted a certain level of quality.
So silly. You should know better with some of the movie/shows they have on there. :P
It's absolutely a fetishization of innocence ('Purity' and 'Innocence' are valuable ideals in Japanese culture). Madoka's designs may fall under a 'Moe' aesthetic (they were designed by Ume Aoki after all), but the story isn't Moe at all. Your idea that the content of a show is independent of what makes it moe is reductionist. I personally think Mono No Aware is part of what makes Moe so appealing.
Exactly, Moe isn't narrative based it lies in characters and settings.
Wait, wait, wait. Let me see if I understand what you're saying. You're saying that if you had a narrative on its own you couldn't call it a Moe narrative and that the characters and settings are what make a story moe? Like, if you had a story about dinosaurs fighting nazis then it wouldn't be moe, but if the dinosaurs were sickly, innocent, pure-hearted high school girls then it would become a moe narrative?
Let me respond to one of your assertions above that I had missed. The main characters of Madoka Magica are familiar archtypes of the magical girl genre, rather than Moe archtypes; archtypes dating back to Sailor Moon (the story that birthed them). The argument could be made that the archtypes can be identified with the 'feeling' definition of Moe back before the industry consolidated Moe into deliberate character types, but that type of moe depends entirely on the viewer rather than the character. Like, if you plopped Rei Hino in front of me and I'd go: "I'm so Moe for Shinto priestesses!" That would be on me rather than the character.
There have been a few anime's that I watched because they were on Netflix only to stop a few episodes in. For some reason I thought them being on Netflix denoted a certain level of quality.
So silly. You should know better with some of the movie/shows they have on there. :P
Strike Witches was one though I don't think I made it through the first episode. Popotan was another one.
For some reason I thought Tezika or some other famous anime creator was involved with its production. When they showed the older sister's boobs I was like, "OK..." When they showed the middle sister naked I was like, "wait, what? I guess she must be older than I thought because it is on Netflix?" When they showed the youngest of the sisters naked I turned it off.
Man are we seriously going to double down on the circumcision argument in the forum? Shit bring that old thread back then, maybe it will be less annoying.
Man are we seriously going to double down on the circumcision argument in the forum? Shit bring that old thread back then, maybe it will be less annoying.
If you don't think the two are related, then how about you walk a mile in my shoes, and try keeping your incredibly long and freakish foreskin from peeking out the bottom of your miniskirt. Yeah, check your privilege maybe.
If you don't think the two are related, then how about you walk a mile in my shoes, and try keeping your incredibly long and freakish foreskin from peeking out the bottom of your miniskirt. Yeah, check your privilege maybe.
Comments
What about a show like Ranma 1/2? I watched it years ago on borrowed VHS tapes and now I am watching the first two seasons on DVD. I do not recall seeing all the naked boobs 20 years ago and I have to admit that I am bothered by their appearance on my DVDs in large part because it means I can't share the viewing the experience with others because I would expect strange looks when the anime boobs show up.
To me the boob shots are fan service and while they are not overused (boobs only appear every few episodes and usually are story based rather than direct fan service) their appearance does limit my ability to enjoy the show in a group setting as I did 20 years ago. Would be nice if the DVDs offered an 'edited for TV' version of each episode.
"Sex comedy" is an entirely different thing. It's intrinsic to the point of the show. You can have a sexy comedy. Case in point: Oglaf. Sexy comedy can also be titillating.
If "fan service" is not intrinsic to the point of the show, it's probably aimed at creepy people looking for titillation under the guise of looking for something else.
If "fan service" is intrinsic to the point of the show and is the sole point of the show, then what you're watching is porn.
This goes for the extremes of the genre as well, such as Kodomo No Jikan and Chu*Bra. Moe is not a fetishization of innocence. Shows like K-On! that have no obvious sexualization are more a desire for Otaku to reclaim a high school experience they didn't have, which is something that I definitely relate too.
Moe is simply a collection of attributes. The content of the show is independent of what makes it Moe. Settings and characters determine if it is Moe. Madoka Magica is about as serious and dark a modern anime has been in the last few years and it is a Moe show because the characters and settings are pulled from the Moe Database.
The main problem with Moe is there is a class of people who cannot distinguish between good and bad anime, but simply want shows that have elements taken from the Moe Database. Which is why you have Akikan and Haruhi both classified as "Moe anime." The trouble comes when anime companies decide to go after an even smaller niche, which is under served and thus eager to spend money, they will draw from Moe elements to also sell that show to the hardcore Otaku. Fans who defend Chu*Bra defend it for the Moe elements they like, and might genuinely not understand why it's creepy. The creepy people are a much smaller subset of the fanbase the show was designed for. You don't hear from them, that's how terrifying they are.
Now my thoughts on fanservice, I prefer the kind that is an inside reference to something geeky like in Lucky Star, Genshiken and other types of nerdy shows. I hate the type that is pandering with boobs and asses blatantly. I even got kinda fed up with it in Free!, that swimming hot boy anime. (Mostly because it needed more yaoi time.)
I tried watching it. I got through two episodes before I felt so slimy I had to turn it off, take a shower, and pitch the DVD. Now I torrent all my anime before I buy it.
Let me respond to one of your assertions above that I had missed. The main characters of Madoka Magica are familiar archtypes of the magical girl genre, rather than Moe archtypes; archtypes dating back to Sailor Moon (the story that birthed them). The argument could be made that the archtypes can be identified with the 'feeling' definition of Moe back before the industry consolidated Moe into deliberate character types, but that type of moe depends entirely on the viewer rather than the character. Like, if you plopped Rei Hino in front of me and I'd go: "I'm so Moe for Shinto priestesses!" That would be on me rather than the character.
For some reason I thought Tezika or some other famous anime creator was involved with its production. When they showed the older sister's boobs I was like, "OK..." When they showed the middle sister naked I was like, "wait, what? I guess she must be older than I thought because it is on Netflix?" When they showed the youngest of the sisters naked I turned it off.
If people want to continue to talk about it, they can post there.