This might be a silly question, but have you actually read the book? Be it Agents of Asgard or Thor(since then changeover)?
Because this is my doubting face. My doubting face thinks you've merely drunk too deep and too greedily of the gatoraide and seasoned your opinions with enough salt to make the dead sea jealous. I suspect you've skipped the important step of actually reading the book, which has been going pretty well. Reviews have been pretty strong overall, have been saying the opposite of what you're saying. Unsurprisingly. Damn those pesky dames, tekkin all de jerbs of the male heros. It's discrimination, discrimination, I tells ye.
Relevant: comicsbeat.com/chart-lady-thor-outsells-male-thor/ Many of my friends who read as many comics as possible love the new Lady Thor. But I'm also seeing there's a possibility it could have sold more because there's far more variant covers.
This might be a silly question, but have you actually read the book? Be it Agents of Asgard or Thor(since then changeover)?
Because this is my doubting face. My doubting face thinks you've merely drunk too deep and too greedily of the gatoraide and seasoned your opinions with enough salt to make the dead sea jealous. I suspect you've skipped the important step of actually reading the book, which has been going pretty well. Reviews have been pretty strong overall, have been saying the opposite of what you're saying. Unsurprisingly. Damn those pesky dames, tekkin all de jerbs of the male heros. It's discrimination, discrimination, I tells ye.
Edit - This panel seems rather apropos:
Not what I said (but for the record, I don't buy the damned thing but I keep up with the blow by blow so I can make sure I'm not missing anything re the stuff I do buy; IE: Ms. Marvel.) at all though I could totally post that page of Titania beating her husband in the face to throw a fight because of some limp wristed girl power excuse and then the version of that which reverses the character roles and then for some yucks a version that's been rewritten to make better narrative sense.
Thor's been many things upto and including a Frog (which, I'm told was part of his highest rated run before "The Lady Thor") and also a woman but we know who The Mighty Thor is in terms of his identity, where he came from and, in general terms, where he's going.
I submit to you the following question; Who the hell is The Lady Thor? Who is she? Where has she come from? Where is she going?
See, here's the thing, if this was handled like, say, Miles (or indeed Kamila) it'd be fine (Hell, I sympathise with the idea of making him the MCU Spidey, I know it makes no goddamn sense for Disney to do it right now financially and that sucks but I'd be game) but The Lady Thor has been so ham fisted that the pigs have taken control of the hand transplant patient and are using the hands as rocket punches.
And for the record, I find Loki making that pun funny.
Relevant: comicsbeat.com/chart-lady-thor-outsells-male-thor/ Many of my friends who read as many comics as possible love the new Lady Thor. But I'm also seeing there's a possibility it could have sold more because there's far more variant covers.
Variant covers don't sell unless the content is worth reading and the comics are worth having. Many indie publishers have regular variant covers which don't spike their sales.
I submit to you the following question; Who the fuck is, "The Lady Thor"?
And for the record, I find Loki making that pun funny.
The writer of this book is one of the best in the industry. Jason Aaron picked up the Marvel gig because he would earn more cash and easily be able to attract readers to characters who have been nothing more than side notes for the last 20 - 30 years.
Revising a character's background is not a new thing in comics, especially among the big publishers. Thor is now simply whoever can wield Mjolnir. I don't get why you're made but on the other hand I don't understand why you are scared of a different gender either.
So weak (or in the case of The Current Thor, nonexistent) characterization for a character is totally fine as long as the character is a woman?
I dunno, that sounds kinda ... sexist.
No, but good characterization is not a info dump at start of the story. For story to get rolling you need the bare essentials of a character and then you build them through their actions during the story, that's where good characterzation comes from. I'm not sure how many issues of new Thor there has been, but as far as I know, it's not many, and considering how in superhero comics it's important to have required amount of punching in every issue, it's to be expected that the new Thor has had little time to establish herself.
If this was the third year of new Thor with no knowledge about her and her character you'd have a point, but it isn't.
Conversely a fat load of nothin' in five months isn't exactly worthy of praise.
Funny how you said five months instead of five issues.
You also have funny definition of fat load of nothing.
From those five issues it's known that she is someone who picked up the hammer somewhat unexpectedly, even for herself. Hammer gave her powers and seemingly some knowledge, but behind it all she is little bit lost in the situation. However she keeps that hidden and tries to give strong outward appearance. She believes herself to be worthy as she was able to pick the hammer up and is clearly determined to use the power to act as Thor protecting the earth (and maybe other realm, but she is probably earthling).
Sure that's not huge amount of stuff, but like I said it's only five issues, not to mention the mystery of who she actually is, is kinda build as this selling point mystery in the series, so after we get that answer I assume there will be more, lots more. But already there is enough to drive a super hero story.
You keep doing that thing where you stuff words in my mouth. It is a disgusting habit.
You didn't answer my question. Who is she? Why should I care about this character besides that she's now "Thor" and she's a she?
She is Thor, a super hero who swings a hammer around.
Funny how I know as much about her as I know about the old Thor. Which means enough.
Technically a god not a super hero. Also all this fuss over Thor being a women. People are glossing over the part where Loki turned into a horse to trick Thor into having sex with them, now that is something that warrants a discussion.
Technically a god not a super hero. Also all this fuss over Thor being a women. People are glossing over the part where Loki turned into a horse to trick Thor into having sex with them, now that is something that warrants a discussion.
I though the talk was about the Marvel character of Thor instead of the Norse god, as I don't think anyone has been rewriting old norse mythology with girl Thor in them yet.
Technically a god not a super hero. Also all this fuss over Thor being a women. People are glossing over the part where Loki turned into a horse to trick Thor into having sex with them, now that is something that warrants a discussion.
I though the talk was about the Marvel character of Thor instead of the Norse god, as I don't think anyone has been rewriting old norse mythology with girl Thor in them yet.
Bah Marvel Thor pales in comparison to Norse Thor. I mean that dude spent most of his time in tests of strength, drinking competitions and fighting trolls. The other dude doesn't even hit the mead hall any more. Also as a question how does the copy right for Thor fall? I could image Marvel being dicks and making it a pain for other people to do Norse Thor stories in case it hurt their image.
It seems mad that people are arguing over this stuff. Its pretty easy to go down the route that Mjølner make the person Thor and as such anyone can be Thor (or have Thor like powers) as its not following the whole god angel.
Due to Thor being a mythological character first, I doubt it would fall under copyright infringement unless you have illustrations copying Marvel Thor's character design in a non-fair-use context.
Conversely a fat load of nothin' in five months isn't exactly worthy of praise.
Funny how you said five months instead of five issues.
You also have funny definition of fat load of nothing.
From those five issues it's known that she is someone who picked up the hammer somewhat unexpectedly, even for herself. Hammer gave her powers and seemingly some knowledge, but behind it all she is little bit lost in the situation. However she keeps that hidden and tries to give strong outward appearance. She believes herself to be worthy as she was able to pick the hammer up and is clearly determined to use the power to act as Thor protecting the earth (and maybe other realm, but she is probably earthling).
Sure that's not huge amount of stuff, but like I said it's only five issues, not to mention the mystery of who she actually is, is kinda build as this selling point mystery in the series, so after we get that answer I assume there will be more, lots more. But already there is enough to drive a super hero story.
As my main pulls are the Archie Action comics (IE: Megaman and Sonic) and Shonen Jump I expect most comics to keep a monthly schedule. Ergo five issues is five months and if Marvel or whoever fuck around than that's their fault, not mine.
Anyway.
To compare the five issue timing there, with Ms. Marvel you have Kamila do the Static Shock thing, get shot at and discover her healing factor, have an encouraging talk from the head of her local mosque, get caught up in a bunch of things involving the antagonist of the arc's weapons and, ultimately, have said antagonist actively show up (and be a brid thing...cuz comics).
Conversely, all I see from that list of "The Lady Thor's" 'achievements' there is a bunch of faffing off.
Hell, if I was to compare it to the previously mentioned Archie comics (which have a four issue per arc mandate) even with Sonic's first arc from the recent reboot they had the writers got everything ready to go from the Reboot point to the Shattered World Status quo (from Sonic Unleashed) in four issues where they have established who all characters are in the post rewrite status quo.
So, yeah, when a half dead Sega's half dead franchise (and Capcom's Fully Dead one) can run rings around the development of a character who's basically the Ringo (though would she now be the Yoko Ono? Huh) of a fairly well to do Multimedia franchise then there's a problem.
Her being a woman doesn't even factor into it beyond it being annoying that the only thing defining her is her gender.
You keep doing that thing where you stuff words in my mouth. It is a disgusting habit.
You didn't answer my question. Who is she? Why should I care about this character besides that she's now "Thor" and she's a she?
She is Thor, a super hero who swings a hammer around.
Funny how I know as much about her as I know about the old Thor. Which means enough.
Technically a god not a super hero. Also all this fuss over Thor being a women. People are glossing over the part where Loki turned into a horse to trick Thor into having sex with them, now that is something that warrants a discussion.
Are we talking about mythology? Because Loki turned into a mare so that Svaðilfari (a great dark stallion) would be distracted; Svaðilfari's owner (the builder who offered to build the Aesir a wall in exchange for Freyja and the sun and moon) spent the last night of his contract chasing down his stallion, allowing the Aesir to escape paying for the wall (because the builder had to finish it in three days).
Loki later gave birth to Sleipnir, Oðin's 8-legged horse.
Conan has previously demonstrated being a misogynistic fuckwit. Why are we still expecting reasonable complaints from him?
"Fuckwit" I will absolutely cop to but I do not see what's misogynist of me to want Sarkesian to follow through on what she was given a hefty amount of money to do close to two years ago (and I might very well have slipped into "misogynist" if I had actually backed her kickstarter -I didn't as she had far passed her goal at the point where the situation was brought up to me- and things had played out the same because that's my fucking money and I gave it in good faith), the likes of Schafer to not act like raving lunatics at awards shows and for The New Thor to have something interesting happen to her except beating straw men and wimps around.
If I was a misogynist (and a generally terrible person) I'd be asking why Thor "changed" into a woman at all. Not just into a flat Jack Chick Tract for boring people. For a bonus I'd also be asking why Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel now instead of bringing back Mar-Vel and why Ms. Marvel is now a muslim but I get the feeling that you'll just pigeonhole what I just said into the "I can't be homophobic, I have gay friends" memory hole as is the action of arseholes.
What I am is antagonistic to people claiming to be "Progressive" but instead are raving lunatics who's idea for "Progression" is to switch the proper nouns around and call it a day or, worse, pretend to be for equality, pocket the cash and leave those who have the cognitive facilities to actually be progressive with a Monorail.
The long and short of it is; we need to manipulate the manual, yes.
The way it's being done, however, will not solve a damn thing and I think the fact that Gamer Gate (and let's put this one to bed; I might be sympathetic to the ideas of GG but I refuse to call myself as such in much the same way that one person looks at the insane stuff that spills out of the "Progressive" mouth and says "Yeah, I'm for equal pay but I'm not with these jackasses") has gone on for over six months without fizzling is pretty damning of the "Progressive" side all said.
I find it funny how you attempt to demonstrate that you aren't a misogynist by saying what you could say about Captain Marvel and the Miss Marvel series and the recent changes of who the characters bearing that title are, but you are apparently blissfully unaware that the only reason you talk about the new Thor series is about those changes (and perhaps a small side-gag by a different writer).
I'm not sure whether you are obtuse about it or haven't actually read it, but the new Thor series is very meta in its approach. The current Thor series is largely not about that character, the new female Thor. She is portrayed as an inscrutable force of outside origin picking up the mantle of a know hero. Her origin and motivation is largely left vague other than the rudimentary necessities.
Instead we see how the known quantities of the Marvel universe react to her, largely with disdain and borderline suicidal curiosity, prodding into her life not out of good faith but an pseudo-instinctive, defensive reaction because they want to regain and maintain the previous status quo and remove or reduce this unknown quantity they are ill-equipped to deal with. They do this also through rather shady means like attempting to browbeat Heimdal into revealing her identity and hiring Cul to bring the new Thor in. Odin in particularly exemplifies this, or as Freya basically tells us "He is not one to accept change willingly. Despots so rarely do."
Does this seem in any way familiar to you?
In the meantime she is basically the only one that is actively trying to stop the unholy alliance between Malekith and Agger, while the established powers that be are routinely throwing rocks in her way rather than helping her.
Anita Sarkeesian is a thoroughly unlikable individual for whom I hold in the lowest regard possible. To call her a "Bitch" is an insult upon dogs.
Admittedly, I have something of a hair-trigger temper when it comes to gendered insults, but I feel that your unreasonable-seeming dislike for Sarkeesian and willingness to quickly throw out "bitch" like that indicates something of a bias. Maybe not a conscious bias, but one that exists.
You've nicely compounded that by describing the new Thor as a "[feminist] Jack Chick Tract" because they have the gall to have story arcs focusing on how having a new, female Thor affects other Marvel characters' attitudes and interactions with her. You're acting as if having a lady Thor shouldn't affect the way the stories go at all, which itself would be unrealistic and bad writing.
I said to call Sarkeaian a bitch is to being dogs low. I have too much respect for dogs to have them be associated with her.
Didn't call her a bitch.
And I called Thor a chick tract because its about as well written as one. Hell, Dark Dungeon had character development and, hey a "Strong Female Protagonist (tm)" so that's two up!
So your defense is "I didn't call her a bitch. I said that she is worse than that." and you think that exonerates you from being called a misogynist?
I also completely disagree with your statement of the new Thor series to be written on the level of a Chick Tract, and making that comparison basically reveals you as completely unqualified to make such estimates at all (though that wasn't quite necessary considering that you didn't pick up on the fact that the lack of characterization of the Thor character, as well as the difficulty of the audience and the characters inside the comic to cope with that, is so far kind of the point of the comic).
Also, because it keeps bothering me whenever I look at one of your posts: The secret identity of the new Ms. Marvel is Kamala Khan, not Kamila.
Comments
I like it
Silly Thor.
Get some character.
Because this is my doubting face. My doubting face thinks you've merely drunk too deep and too greedily of the gatoraide and seasoned your opinions with enough salt to make the dead sea jealous. I suspect you've skipped the important step of actually reading the book, which has been going pretty well. Reviews have been pretty strong overall, have been saying the opposite of what you're saying. Unsurprisingly. Damn those pesky dames, tekkin all de jerbs of the male heros. It's discrimination, discrimination, I tells ye.
Edit - This panel seems rather apropos:
Thor's been many things upto and including a Frog (which, I'm told was part of his highest rated run before "The Lady Thor") and also a woman but we know who The Mighty Thor is in terms of his identity, where he came from and, in general terms, where he's going.
I submit to you the following question; Who the hell is The Lady Thor? Who is she? Where has she come from? Where is she going?
See, here's the thing, if this was handled like, say, Miles (or indeed Kamila) it'd be fine (Hell, I sympathise with the idea of making him the MCU Spidey, I know it makes no goddamn sense for Disney to do it right now financially and that sucks but I'd be game) but The Lady Thor has been so ham fisted that the pigs have taken control of the hand transplant patient and are using the hands as rocket punches.
And for the record, I find Loki making that pun funny.
Revising a character's background is not a new thing in comics, especially among the big publishers. Thor is now simply whoever can wield Mjolnir. I don't get why you're made but on the other hand I don't understand why you are scared of a different gender either.
Also, hey, ignoring the part where I mention two examples that did it right, bonus points there.
You didn't answer my question. Who is she? Why should I care about this character besides that she's now "Thor" and she's a she?
Funny how I know as much about her as I know about the old Thor. Which means enough.
I dunno, that sounds kinda ... sexist.
If this was the third year of new Thor with no knowledge about her and her character you'd have a point, but it isn't.
You also have funny definition of fat load of nothing.
From those five issues it's known that she is someone who picked up the hammer somewhat unexpectedly, even for herself. Hammer gave her powers and seemingly some knowledge, but behind it all she is little bit lost in the situation. However she keeps that hidden and tries to give strong outward appearance. She believes herself to be worthy as she was able to pick the hammer up and is clearly determined to use the power to act as Thor protecting the earth (and maybe other realm, but she is probably earthling).
Sure that's not huge amount of stuff, but like I said it's only five issues, not to mention the mystery of who she actually is, is kinda build as this selling point mystery in the series, so after we get that answer I assume there will be more, lots more. But already there is enough to drive a super hero story.
Technically a god not a super hero. Also all this fuss over Thor being a women. People are glossing over the part where Loki turned into a horse to trick Thor into having sex with them, now that is something that warrants a discussion.
It seems mad that people are arguing over this stuff. Its pretty easy to go down the route that Mjølner make the person Thor and as such anyone can be Thor (or have Thor like powers) as its not following the whole god angel.
Anyway.
To compare the five issue timing there, with Ms. Marvel you have Kamila do the Static Shock thing, get shot at and discover her healing factor, have an encouraging talk from the head of her local mosque, get caught up in a bunch of things involving the antagonist of the arc's weapons and, ultimately, have said antagonist actively show up (and be a brid thing...cuz comics).
Conversely, all I see from that list of "The Lady Thor's" 'achievements' there is a bunch of faffing off.
Hell, if I was to compare it to the previously mentioned Archie comics (which have a four issue per arc mandate) even with Sonic's first arc from the recent reboot they had the writers got everything ready to go from the Reboot point to the Shattered World Status quo (from Sonic Unleashed) in four issues where they have established who all characters are in the post rewrite status quo.
So, yeah, when a half dead Sega's half dead franchise (and Capcom's Fully Dead one) can run rings around the development of a character who's basically the Ringo (though would she now be the Yoko Ono? Huh) of a fairly well to do Multimedia franchise then there's a problem.
Her being a woman doesn't even factor into it beyond it being annoying that the only thing defining her is her gender.
Loki later gave birth to Sleipnir, Oðin's 8-legged horse.
Thor did not factor into it at all.
If I was a misogynist (and a generally terrible person) I'd be asking why Thor "changed" into a woman at all. Not just into a flat Jack Chick Tract for boring people.
For a bonus I'd also be asking why Carol Danvers is Captain Marvel now instead of bringing back Mar-Vel and why Ms. Marvel is now a muslim but I get the feeling that you'll just pigeonhole what I just said into the "I can't be homophobic, I have gay friends" memory hole as is the action of arseholes.
What I am is antagonistic to people claiming to be "Progressive" but instead are raving lunatics who's idea for "Progression" is to switch the proper nouns around and call it a day or, worse, pretend to be for equality, pocket the cash and leave those who have the cognitive facilities to actually be progressive with a Monorail.
The long and short of it is; we need to manipulate the manual, yes.
The way it's being done, however, will not solve a damn thing and I think the fact that Gamer Gate (and let's put this one to bed; I might be sympathetic to the ideas of GG but I refuse to call myself as such in much the same way that one person looks at the insane stuff that spills out of the "Progressive" mouth and says "Yeah, I'm for equal pay but I'm not with these jackasses") has gone on for over six months without fizzling is pretty damning of the "Progressive" side all said.
I'm not sure whether you are obtuse about it or haven't actually read it, but the new Thor series is very meta in its approach. The current Thor series is largely not about that character, the new female Thor. She is portrayed as an inscrutable force of outside origin picking up the mantle of a know hero. Her origin and motivation is largely left vague other than the rudimentary necessities.
Instead we see how the known quantities of the Marvel universe react to her, largely with disdain and borderline suicidal curiosity, prodding into her life not out of good faith but an pseudo-instinctive, defensive reaction because they want to regain and maintain the previous status quo and remove or reduce this unknown quantity they are ill-equipped to deal with. They do this also through rather shady means like attempting to browbeat Heimdal into revealing her identity and hiring Cul to bring the new Thor in. Odin in particularly exemplifies this, or as Freya basically tells us "He is not one to accept change willingly. Despots so rarely do."
Does this seem in any way familiar to you?
In the meantime she is basically the only one that is actively trying to stop the unholy alliance between Malekith and Agger, while the established powers that be are routinely throwing rocks in her way rather than helping her.
You've nicely compounded that by describing the new Thor as a "[feminist] Jack Chick Tract" because they have the gall to have story arcs focusing on how having a new, female Thor affects other Marvel characters' attitudes and interactions with her. You're acting as if having a lady Thor shouldn't affect the way the stories go at all, which itself would be unrealistic and bad writing.
Didn't call her a bitch.
And I called Thor a chick tract because its about as well written as one. Hell, Dark Dungeon had character development and, hey a "Strong Female Protagonist (tm)" so that's two up!
I also completely disagree with your statement of the new Thor series to be written on the level of a Chick Tract, and making that comparison basically reveals you as completely unqualified to make such estimates at all (though that wasn't quite necessary considering that you didn't pick up on the fact that the lack of characterization of the Thor character, as well as the difficulty of the audience and the characters inside the comic to cope with that, is so far kind of the point of the comic).
Also, because it keeps bothering me whenever I look at one of your posts: The secret identity of the new Ms. Marvel is Kamala Khan, not Kamila.