Well, in a rare turn of events, I have good news for you - They probably haven't. They're partnering with Feminist Frequency in their diversity efforts, but there's absolutely no evidence they're giving money to Feminist Frequency. The only people who have assumed that is, of course, Gamergate and the associated chicken littles like Breitbart. It's based on the assumption that because there was a large amount of donations late in 2014, it MUST be because intel handed her a stack of cash, not because around the same time she got much broader national and international attention outside of the gaming press which, let's be honest, the vast, vast majority of people don't read.
Also, what's with the sudden inclusion of McIntosh? Not by you specifically, I mean in general - where previously only Sarkeesian would merit a mention(and usually, an insult) suddenly her producer's on the chopping block, as if he's a recent addition.
Ahhhh Conan-San, Anita is pretty much doing that with her video's she's showing some very basic things that are being done to women in video games like the Ms. Hero trope she just looked at. Just knowing that those tropes exists actually helps us all. It makes everyone a better writer and hopefully will lead to better female characters in games compared to some of the well.. sorta insulting examples.
I was only informed of him recently. He's gotten kind of infamous as of late for some insulting tweets against Israel, Chris Hitchens, and white people.
Also people have dug up his old anti-US army videos, in which he portrays the Army as savage killers. I hate when people these people demonize servicemen. Why can't he use his fame to influence policy or protest war?
- "All the racist and sexist slurs are just trash talk, everybody knows that! It's not really being racist and sexist! It's just an integral part of online play!"
Boy, does that sound familiar.
^Listen to that angry piece of crap. So fucking awkward. People want to say that hardcore gamers will not be sexist or racists because they only care about games...when that so isn't true.
Totalbiscuit is a real twat at this point. Moviebob is a fool for getting in the fight, but I don't think he's that wrong. People really want attach themselves to this anti-intellectualism argument within gaming.
"Games are not about feelings." "Games are not about emotions." "Games are not supposed to be art." "Games are supposed to be fantasy." "Games are only mindless fun." "Games should not commentate on serious/social issues." "Games are for hardcore gamers only."
I imagine these are people who only organize games into two categories of Call of Duty and Candy Crush. Anything outside of those boundaries gets labeled as being art/emotions/feelings simulators. Yet every gamergater goes "Not all games are just Call of Duty and Candy Crush!" Yeah, but clearly you want it to be that way if you don't want gaming at all to evolve or grow as an art form. If you believe that playing games is an art as well as any creative facet in your life, then just fucking accept that you are playing a form of interactive art and shut the fuck up.
Because using your fame to combat sexism is also a commendable endeavor?
So it's okay for him to attack Servicemen as long as he's also 'defending' women? Women are serving in the military too you know, don't they deserve his respect?
Point the first: I'm super uncomfortable with the idea that we should venerate our soldiers as heroes or treat them as above reproach just because they chose to join the army. I don't think they're that much more deserving of respect than anybody else.
Point the second: You said earlier that these were old videos. Why are we arguing about them now? Is it just "McIntosh is a person of bad character because he said bad things about soldiers, so we should also ignore the feminist videos he's producing now"?
Point the first: I'm super uncomfortable with the idea that we should venerate our soldiers as heroes or treat them as above reproach just because they chose to join the army. I don't think they're that much more deserving of respect than anybody else.
Now I didn't say that. I'm saying if he has a problem with the military, he should take it to government. In the US we have the freedom of speech to criticize the government. But Harassment is when you target individuals.
Point the second: You said earlier that these were old videos. Why are we arguing about them now?
Churba wanted to know why there's so much hate for McIntosh. These 'old' videos are still hosted on his website. I never said he was a bad person, I only mentioned hating his methods.
- "All the racist and sexist slurs are just trash talk, everybody knows that! It's not really being racist and sexist! It's just an integral part of online play!"
Boy, does that sound familiar.
I remember that particular individual getting his head handed to him for acting like a prick, him saying that removing inflammatory language makes the fighting game scene Starcraft and no one buying it if that's what you mean.
Point the second: You said earlier that these were old videos. Why are we arguing about them now?
Churba wanted to know why there's so much hate for McIntosh. These 'old' videos are still hosted on his website. I never said he was a bad person, I only mentioned hating his methods.I was more wondering why the GlimmerGabblers cared, but I suppose that's just because it's another reason they can tell people to hate Sarkeesian's videos. Sorry for the not-very-useful side-thread.
Churba wanted to know why there's so much hate for McIntosh. These 'old' videos are still hosted on his website. I never said he was a bad person, I only mentioned hating his methods.
Well, really, I was more asking "Why now" rather than just why, but I appreciate the honest response.
So it's okay for him to attack Servicemen as long as he's also 'defending' women? Women are serving in the military too you know, don't they deserve his respect?
No, but this and that are different things. One does not invalidate the other, not that you said it did, but it appears many others are treating it that way.
And it depends on the nature of what he said, since I haven't looked myself as of yet - after all, there's a lot of people who are super pissed about people "attacking" Chris Kyle, when said attacks amount to pointing out that he told a bunch of barefaced lies. Which he absolutely did.
It seems to imply that he thinks they get off on torture. You can take it as you like. I can't understand why people who hate GG would even defend him? He really offers little to Feminists except unhinged leftism.
"Hitchens was a bad person" is hardly a leftist position. In fact, there are a whole lot more people I know about on the right part of the political spectrum that despised Hitchens because of his atheist beliefs. Hitchens himself considered himself a socialist and Marxist, though he had his detractors on that side of the spectrum as well after the Iraq war fiasco, criticism I agree with. I for my part disagree with McIntosh there because despite his failings Hitchens was in my opinion an overall positive influence on the world.
I for my part did not really understand celebrating the death of Osama Bin Laden. Yeah, he was a terrible person and responsible for the deaths of thousands, but I for my part believe he should have stood trial and had to confront his evil deeds, rather than just be killed outright. In any case, his death was no cause of celebration, even if he didn't really deserve to die anymore.
As for the video: I don't really see the problem with it. It's obviously criticism of torture practices used by U.S. military and intelligence operatives which have been proven they engaged in and with little repercussion from people in the know before it exploded into the news with stuff like Abu Ghraib scandal. Maybe you don't remember it, but there were a whole lot of people attempting to justify this kind of bullshit, which I can only shake my head at.
But hey, don't let me stop you from posting obvious propaganda.
I can't understand why people who hate GG would even defend him? He really offers little to Feminists except unhinged leftism.
Well, if you want to lob me a softball, alright - Again, it's because this and that have little to do with each other.
He doesn't speak as Feminist Frequency. He doesn't appear in the videos. He helps write scripts, but isn't the primary driving force. He's a producer, cameraman and sound engineer. He shoots video, edits video, captures and edits sound. All with oversight from other parties, I might add. His personal beliefs don't have any bearing on his ability to perform in that role.
On top of that, all these examples are pretty old. The videos against the military are from 2008, before Feminist Frequency had even formed, and the tweets are from before Tropes Vs Women - which, let's be honest here, is the reason gamergate makes a target of him. It's been four years - people can change their minds in four years.
Finally - You don't have to agree with everything a person says, because you agree with one thing they say. You don't even have to agree with everything they say about a topic you generally agree with them on. For example, I've had blazing rows with Open Sketch about progressive topics, doesn't mean we don't both generally agree on those ideas. Andrew, Linkiji, Rym, Chaos, Kate, yourself, you'd be hard-pressed to find someone in this thread or generally active on this forum that I've not argued with, but often agree with and generally like.
He doesn't speak as Feminist Frequency. He doesn't appear in the videos. He helps write scripts, but isn't the primary driving force.
He is in videos now. The two of them are very vocal on twitter. Right now they are playing a bingo game that criticizes any game with violence and male characters.
It is a bit unfair to pick apart peoples twitter posts, since the reactionary nature of them. But in general I find the posts very self righteous. Like he's an anti-capitalist but when he applies morality to arguments about politics that makes me angry.
you'd be hard-pressed to find someone in this thread or generally active on this forum that I've not argued with, but often agree with and generally like.
I don't think that's really true. Every interaction I've had with Rym and Scot was them lecturing me on being a horrible person. I actually had to stop listening to the show cause I can imagine them saying it in their voice.
I'm not even that extreme, I've never even sent a death threat in my life.
He is in videos now. The two of them are very vocal on twitter. Right now they are playing a bingo game that criticizes any game with violence and male characters.
Oh my god! Someone is playing bingo on twitter. Alert the fun police these people must be put down immediately!
Oh my god! Someone is playing bingo on twitter. Alert the fun police these people must be put down immediately!
No I just feel like his criticism is baseless. What does he have against violent video games? Why does anyone have anything against violent video games?
Why would you criticize violent games, and never actually create or patronize non-violent games?
Welp, that'll teach me for speaking about it when I'm behind on the videos. Still, point stands - it's not like he's injecting his views on other stuff.
Right now they are playing a bingo game that criticizes any game with violence and male characters.
See, this might be why Rym and Scott aren't very patient with you. Well, among other reasons, but the other ones aren't really your fault for the most part. As behind on the videos as I am, even I can tell that's a pretty unfair interpretation - after all, I strongly doubt that violence and having male characters are the reasons they're taking issue. Apart from occasions where it's meant to be humorous, nobody around here takes too kindly to such blatant twisting of someone's point, most of the time.
I don't think that's really true.
Oh buddy, you wanna bet? Maybe not in this thread - which I realise I wasn't terribly clear about, sorry - but on this forum in general, I sure as hell have. As a group, we are SUPER argumentative.
I would have to argue that argumentative is the wrong word. We are more like a debating society that likes to sharpen its wits upon the cold stones of others thoughts and ideas. We don't cling to ideas that are roundly proved to be false though we may on occasion spend a little bit too much time trying to sharpen a dull blade before giving it up.
Oh my god! Someone is playing bingo on twitter. Alert the fun police these people must be put down immediately!
No I just feel like his criticism is baseless. What does he have against violent video games? Why does anyone have anything against violent video games?
Why would you criticize violent games, and never actually create or patronize non-violent games?
Do you know why and how bingo cards like that are born. People usually don't make them about rare things that never happen, as not getting bingos ever would be boring. Bingo card memes like that are always filled with common tropes, ideas and themes.
Is there anything inherently wrong about video game being violent or it's protagonist being Gruff White McDude? Not really, at least I don't think so. Question is, why so many games are like that, why is the Gruff McDude the default video game protagonist of these days.
The point is not to take individual games and say these are bad, but to point out the common themes and ask questions like "why are these elements this common", "could there be alternatives", "what does these themes being common tell us about current video game industry and it's consumer base". Those are valid valuable questions to be asked.
You just seem to share the same defensive attitude as other bullshitgaters do where any criticism towards game(s) you like is taken as a personal attack. That "I don't want to be told that I'm bad person for liking these games" attitude. Just because you like games with Gruff White McDudes doesn't make you a bad person, no one is saying that, you are allowed to like whatever kind of games you like and people who make games are allowed to make whatever kinds of games they want, no one is changing that and won't. So stop being so defensive, stop caring about how other people don't like things you like and play more video games.
Then please I implore you to go on McIntosh's twitter and read his posts. He even claims Sonic is violent and macho. Read it first.
Er, Sonic The Hedgehog is a brash, tough, arrogant, take-the-fight-to-them always up for a scrap type of dude(Hedgehog?), who kicks the shit out of anything that gets in his way. He IS violent and macho, cartoonish as he is about it.
Minus points for conflating Sonic and Shadow, though. And he doesn't get the "But I'm talking about the series, not the character" defence, since it's Male PROTAGONIST bingo, not video game series character bingo.
The point is not to take individual games and say these are bad, but to point out the common themes and ask questions like "why are these elements this common", "could there be alternatives", "what does these themes being common tell us about current video game industry and it's consumer base". Those are valid valuable questions to be asked.
I think part of the problem people have is the misconception that progressive people are out to stop those types of games, when that's not the case, for the most part. They want other options besides gruff antihero McWhitey, of which there's depressingly few, unless you only want to play a lot of procedurally generated themed dungeon crawls, or yet another stupidly themed psuedo-simulator game.
The great irony is that a lot of people in the market segment that type of game serves seems to fear a horrible future, where only games that cater to a specific group they're not a part of are made, yet they cannot or refuse to realize that's exactly the situation that the people they're opposing are in, and they're the ones that are fighting against that changing. They don't want it to happen to them because that would be horrible, but fuck those other people it's already happening to.
Yeah, like, to bring up the much-hated Gone Home, me loving that game doesn't mean that I must hate the Manshooters by extension. I love the manshooters. I just wish there was more room for games about stuff like riot grrrl music and queer narratives in between the thousand and one games about exploding nazis.
Now if only somebody could make a game about female punk rockers exploding nazis...
Well my main criticism of his criticism is that it is negative and doesn't create anything. (Well that and the white guilt stuff is annoying.)
So instead of complaining to Podcasters and their audience, who I assume very few of actually like me or care about my opinion, I should just do my own podcast. They say the best revenge is living well. So my revenge to Scott and Rym for calling me a terrible person is have fun making my own podcast!
I don't expect to be more famous then them or anything like that. But If I'm actually having fun with it, well it's better than listening to people who hate me over differing opinions.
You are talking about thing A and thing B that don't correlate (add metaphor here).
Not liking a single podcast is very different than criticizing a whole current video game industry. Your solution applied to that would mean to create a wholly new video game industry and that doesn't even make sense.
You are saying that McIntosh's criticism doesn't create anything, but like I said, it creates questions and pondering about those questions creates more thinking and more thinking is something that we really need in the Internet.
Comments
Also, what's with the sudden inclusion of McIntosh? Not by you specifically, I mean in general - where previously only Sarkeesian would merit a mention(and usually, an insult) suddenly her producer's on the chopping block, as if he's a recent addition.
Also people have dug up his old anti-US army videos, in which he portrays the Army as savage killers. I hate when people these people demonize servicemen. Why can't he use his fame to influence policy or protest war?
^Listen to that angry piece of crap. So fucking awkward. People want to say that hardcore gamers will not be sexist or racists because they only care about games...when that so isn't true.
Totalbiscuit is a real twat at this point. Moviebob is a fool for getting in the fight, but I don't think he's that wrong. People really want attach themselves to this anti-intellectualism argument within gaming.
"Games are not about feelings."
"Games are not about emotions."
"Games are not supposed to be art."
"Games are supposed to be fantasy."
"Games are only mindless fun."
"Games should not commentate on serious/social issues."
"Games are for hardcore gamers only."
I imagine these are people who only organize games into two categories of Call of Duty and Candy Crush. Anything outside of those boundaries gets labeled as being art/emotions/feelings simulators. Yet every gamergater goes "Not all games are just Call of Duty and Candy Crush!" Yeah, but clearly you want it to be that way if you don't want gaming at all to evolve or grow as an art form. If you believe that playing games is an art as well as any creative facet in your life, then just fucking accept that you are playing a form of interactive art and shut the fuck up.
Point the second: You said earlier that these were old videos. Why are we arguing about them now? Is it just "McIntosh is a person of bad character because he said bad things about soldiers, so we should also ignore the feminist videos he's producing now"?
I remember that particular individual getting his head handed to him for acting like a prick, him saying that removing inflammatory language makes the fighting game scene Starcraft and no one buying it if that's what you mean.
And it depends on the nature of what he said, since I haven't looked myself as of yet - after all, there's a lot of people who are super pissed about people "attacking" Chris Kyle, when said attacks amount to pointing out that he told a bunch of barefaced lies. Which he absolutely did.
It seems to imply that he thinks they get off on torture. You can take it as you like. I can't understand why people who hate GG would even defend him? He really offers little to Feminists except unhinged leftism.
For example:
I for my part did not really understand celebrating the death of Osama Bin Laden. Yeah, he was a terrible person and responsible for the deaths of thousands, but I for my part believe he should have stood trial and had to confront his evil deeds, rather than just be killed outright. In any case, his death was no cause of celebration, even if he didn't really deserve to die anymore.
As for the video: I don't really see the problem with it. It's obviously criticism of torture practices used by U.S. military and intelligence operatives which have been proven they engaged in and with little repercussion from people in the know before it exploded into the news with stuff like Abu Ghraib scandal. Maybe you don't remember it, but there were a whole lot of people attempting to justify this kind of bullshit, which I can only shake my head at.
But hey, don't let me stop you from posting obvious propaganda.
He doesn't speak as Feminist Frequency. He doesn't appear in the videos. He helps write scripts, but isn't the primary driving force. He's a producer, cameraman and sound engineer. He shoots video, edits video, captures and edits sound. All with oversight from other parties, I might add. His personal beliefs don't have any bearing on his ability to perform in that role.
On top of that, all these examples are pretty old. The videos against the military are from 2008, before Feminist Frequency had even formed, and the tweets are from before Tropes Vs Women - which, let's be honest here, is the reason gamergate makes a target of him. It's been four years - people can change their minds in four years.
Finally - You don't have to agree with everything a person says, because you agree with one thing they say. You don't even have to agree with everything they say about a topic you generally agree with them on. For example, I've had blazing rows with Open Sketch about progressive topics, doesn't mean we don't both generally agree on those ideas. Andrew, Linkiji, Rym, Chaos, Kate, yourself, you'd be hard-pressed to find someone in this thread or generally active on this forum that I've not argued with, but often agree with and generally like.
It is a bit unfair to pick apart peoples twitter posts, since the reactionary nature of them. But in general I find the posts very self righteous. Like he's an anti-capitalist but when he applies morality to arguments about politics that makes me angry. I don't think that's really true. Every interaction I've had with Rym and Scot was them lecturing me on being a horrible person. I actually had to stop listening to the show cause I can imagine them saying it in their voice.
I'm not even that extreme, I've never even sent a death threat in my life.
Why would you criticize violent games, and never actually create or patronize non-violent games?
Sorry couldn't resist
Is there anything inherently wrong about video game being violent or it's protagonist being Gruff White McDude? Not really, at least I don't think so. Question is, why so many games are like that, why is the Gruff McDude the default video game protagonist of these days.
The point is not to take individual games and say these are bad, but to point out the common themes and ask questions like "why are these elements this common", "could there be alternatives", "what does these themes being common tell us about current video game industry and it's consumer base". Those are valid valuable questions to be asked.
You just seem to share the same defensive attitude as other bullshitgaters do where any criticism towards game(s) you like is taken as a personal attack. That "I don't want to be told that I'm bad person for liking these games" attitude. Just because you like games with Gruff White McDudes doesn't make you a bad person, no one is saying that, you are allowed to like whatever kind of games you like and people who make games are allowed to make whatever kinds of games they want, no one is changing that and won't. So stop being so defensive, stop caring about how other people don't like things you like and play more video games.
Minus points for conflating Sonic and Shadow, though. And he doesn't get the "But I'm talking about the series, not the character" defence, since it's Male PROTAGONIST bingo, not video game series character bingo.
The great irony is that a lot of people in the market segment that type of game serves seems to fear a horrible future, where only games that cater to a specific group they're not a part of are made, yet they cannot or refuse to realize that's exactly the situation that the people they're opposing are in, and they're the ones that are fighting against that changing. They don't want it to happen to them because that would be horrible, but fuck those other people it's already happening to.
Now if only somebody could make a game about female punk rockers exploding nazis...
So instead of complaining to Podcasters and their audience, who I assume very few of actually like me or care about my opinion, I should just do my own podcast. They say the best revenge is living well. So my revenge to Scott and Rym for calling me a terrible person is have fun making my own podcast!
I don't expect to be more famous then them or anything like that. But If I'm actually having fun with it, well it's better than listening to people who hate me over differing opinions.
Not liking a single podcast is very different than criticizing a whole current video game industry. Your solution applied to that would mean to create a wholly new video game industry and that doesn't even make sense.
You are saying that McIntosh's criticism doesn't create anything, but like I said, it creates questions and pondering about those questions creates more thinking and more thinking is something that we really need in the Internet.
Checkmate, atheists.