Okay guys, since we were on the topic of what classes people suck at, I have to admit that I royally suck as a spy. Hence, it is also my least used class (~2 hours total, compared to Pyro and Soldier which I clocked over 32 hours each so far). However, I have decided that I need to change that. So, beside cloaking, staying the fuck away from Pyros, and staying out of people's vision in general, anybody got a good guide how to play spy effectively? Also, what is the best loadout for the spy? I heard Dead Ringer is pretty good, but I haven't used it at all.
As counterproductive as this sounds, be aggressive. Trying to lurk or hang back makes you stand out even more to spy-checkers and nothing makes you a target like running the wrong way. Just slip in behind a group of enemies, stab as many as you can as fast as you can, and then cloak and double back. Unless you are hunting snipers or softening the enemy up for an assault, you should avoid going farther back.
Avoid sapping isolated teleporter exits, it lets people know you are coming and they can knock the sapper off from the other end anyway.
Don't bother sapping turrets if your team isn't engaging yet, it's a fast way to die quickly. Wait for the sentry and engineer to be otherwise occupied before you take them out.
Your best disguises are as engineers, pyro, and other spies.
Yeah, that stuff is pretty much correct. One thing that you probably already know (but I used to fail at) is that you need to be very careful where you choose to decloak. Obviously you need to be out of enemies' line of sight, but you also need to make sure you've got some distance between you and your enemies. Due to the sound you make when you're decloaking, if there's enemies just around the corner when you do it, you're screwed.
I guess I just need to not do the things that I use to identify spys with, i.e. running back into base while displaying full health (or at all uncloaked) or disguise as a class that makes no sense (i.e. as a sniper way back in the base).
When I play a Spy, I stick with the regular layout. A lot of open_sketchbooks tactics are correct, you be offensive the same time as your team to get those backstabs and cause bedlam amongst the main group. This is probably why people are loving the "Your Eternal Reward" so much, because it works for such gameplay. If I could add my suggestions...
-Use the Higher Ground. Always take in account the higher ground when playing a Spy, as it'll make the descending backstabs much more fluid and easy to manuever. You're company will most likely be Snipers and Engineers which are focused on their one target. Swooping down, right behind the enemy is usually the best tactic to take out running groups.
-THE REVOLVER IS POWERFUL. Hell, even better if you have an Enforcer. The backstab isn't always a winner, because of lag, positioning, crowded level of fire, or even something like the Razorback. Sometimes it's best to snipe an enemy with your gun than go for the stab. It can be rather fast and deadly.
-Never disguise as a Medic or Scout. It's too easy to make yourself stand out. Depending on the map, people will not suspect the Sniper, however you can't camp too long. I find that a Demoman is a pretty good disguise too, as they shoot from afar. (However, this may have changed considering how strong Demoknights are) Going as a Heavy is useful for distracting Medics, but that's about it. You might have some luck on your side because Heavies are constantly slowing down and moving forward with the minigun, but that'll last 10 seconds max.
-Pay attention to the layout of the map, to see if it'll allow the enemy free movement. Spies, like Snipers can be detrimented by the map because of how well the defense can play by sticking to the wall. Goldrush is my best example for this. For Maps 1 and 3, a Spy has a lot of leverage for moving around. However, it's hard for a Spy in Map 2 because of the box layout of the ending checkpoint. A Spy should not go up against a turtle scenario alone, unless you really need to take out Engineer Buildings. (Sappers are free and instant!)
Yeah, I dominated a server (~67 points; next most was something like 50) as medic just now, even though people repeatedly failed to properly use my ubers. The problem with Medic is you're reliant on other people not being stupid, and on a public server that's a big gamble.
I'll reveal some of my Spy tactics for newbie Spies. 1) Stick with the original knife for now, the Your Eternal Reward and the Conniver's Kunai should be avoided until you know what you are doing (especially the YER.)
2) There are no "best disguise(s)," or "worst disguise(s)." The best disguise is the one that fits the situation. You just have to make sure you play the part. I've had just as much success disguising as a Scout as disguising as a Heavy. I once walked into an enemy intelligence room, had a scout shoot me a few times (to the point that one more shot would have killed me,) he then believed I was on his team, and I spent 10 minutes in that flag room with him before getting the chance to kill him and take the intelligence.
3) Know the layout of a level, especially the locations of all the ammo and health packs (and especially the out of the way ones that people don't either know about or don't grab often.) Knowing all a maps nooks and crannies is probably the most important thing to learn as a Spy since you'll need to know how to sneak up on anyone, where it is safe to cloak/uncloak/disguise without being seen, etc.
4) The revolvers are powerful tools, but you don't need to use them very often. Truthfully you really only need them to shoot Razerback Snipers (I usually like to stand right next to them to do this,) and shooting sentries (from outside it's range) and dispensers (also from a distance if you can't get close enough.) While they are powerful, they do have some bullet scatter like the pistols do, so they aren't always as accurate as you want them to be. The Ambassador is the exception to this if you wait long enough between shots for the cross hair to reset, but even then it generally shoots too slowly to be useful most of the time. Also the revolvers have very distinct sounds when fired, which may alert other players to your presence.
5) Always avoid any confrontation unless it is on your terms. You should always be the one to initiate combat, otherwise it's best to just runaway (see point 3.)
. I once walked into an enemy intelligence room, had a scout shoot me a few times (to the point that one more shot would have killed me,) he then believed I was on his team,
That's one thing I've noticed. Too many people rely on the "ding" sound from shooting people, which DOESN'T HAPPEN if you shoot a disguised spy. Just act like you're not getting hit, and 7 times out of 10, they'll go back to their business.
. I once walked into an enemy intelligence room, had a scout shoot me a few times (to the point that one more shot would have killed me,) he then believed I was on his team,
That's one thing I've noticed. Too many people rely on the "ding" sound from shooting people, which DOESN'T HAPPEN if you shoot a disguised spy. Just act like you're not getting hit, and 7 times out of 10, they'll go back to their business.
Actually this occurred way back in the days before the ding. I think this happened even before the Medic update.
. I once walked into an enemy intelligence room, had a scout shoot me a few times (to the point that one more shot would have killed me,) he then believed I was on his team,
That's one thing I've noticed. Too many people rely on the "ding" sound from shooting people, which DOESN'T HAPPEN if you shoot a disguised spy. Just act like you're not getting hit, and 7 times out of 10, they'll go back to their business.
There are no "best disguise(s)," or "worst disguise(s)." The best disguise is the one that fits the situation. You just have to make sure you play the part. I've had just as much success disguising as a Scout as disguising as a Heavy. I once walked into an enemy intelligence room, had a scout shoot me a few times (to the point that one more shot would have killed me,) he then believed I was on his team, and I spent 10 minutes in that flag room with him before getting the chance to kill him and take the intelligence.
I recall a good one where I was disguised as the enemy heavy, and I just walked right into the intel room at the start of the match, and stayed there. People ran in, saw the intel being guarded, and left. As soon as I heard gunfire outside, I grabbed the intel and fucked off at top speed, and made the cap, because by the time I was halfway across the map, they were only just getting to the intel room.
I found the ding annoying when I tried it(Especially playing heavy - DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING), but I like having damage displayed for me, and a few other tidy little options.
You know that "Q" is the quick swap key right? It swaps between your last used weapon slots
Yeah, but I'm still getting used to using the keyboard for movement. My reload and crouch are part of my additional mouse buttons. Perhaps since I have autoreload on, I'll change one of my mouse buttons to switch to previous weapon.
I'd wish it was switch weapons instead of last weapon.
So I'm joining my usual Turbine server, spying it up and all, and there were at least three players already who had the Cow Mangler (which is an awesome name btw). Since I don't think it randomly dropped for all three within the last 24 hours, I have to unfortunately assume that Valve's Nickle and Diming system unfortunately actually works. One dude actually had the full on Dr. Grordbort's Victory Pack. Well I guess he keeps the economy going by dropping a cool $ 37 or so for the gear...
I love the "DING ON HIT" setting. It's awesome respawning and hearing a chorus of DINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDING of all the fuckers who are still burning. So delicious.
I love the "DING ON HIT" setting. It's awesome respawning and hearing a chorus of DINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDINGDING of all the fuckers who are still burning. So delicious.
Comments
Avoid sapping isolated teleporter exits, it lets people know you are coming and they can knock the sapper off from the other end anyway.
Don't bother sapping turrets if your team isn't engaging yet, it's a fast way to die quickly. Wait for the sentry and engineer to be otherwise occupied before you take them out.
Your best disguises are as engineers, pyro, and other spies.
-Use the Higher Ground. Always take in account the higher ground when playing a Spy, as it'll make the descending backstabs much more fluid and easy to manuever. You're company will most likely be Snipers and Engineers which are focused on their one target. Swooping down, right behind the enemy is usually the best tactic to take out running groups.
-THE REVOLVER IS POWERFUL. Hell, even better if you have an Enforcer. The backstab isn't always a winner, because of lag, positioning, crowded level of fire, or even something like the Razorback. Sometimes it's best to snipe an enemy with your gun than go for the stab. It can be rather fast and deadly.
-Never disguise as a Medic or Scout. It's too easy to make yourself stand out. Depending on the map, people will not suspect the Sniper, however you can't camp too long. I find that a Demoman is a pretty good disguise too, as they shoot from afar. (However, this may have changed considering how strong Demoknights are) Going as a Heavy is useful for distracting Medics, but that's about it. You might have some luck on your side because Heavies are constantly slowing down and moving forward with the minigun, but that'll last 10 seconds max.
-Pay attention to the layout of the map, to see if it'll allow the enemy free movement. Spies, like Snipers can be detrimented by the map because of how well the defense can play by sticking to the wall. Goldrush is my best example for this. For Maps 1 and 3, a Spy has a lot of leverage for moving around. However, it's hard for a Spy in Map 2 because of the box layout of the ending checkpoint. A Spy should not go up against a turtle scenario alone, unless you really need to take out Engineer Buildings. (Sappers are free and instant!)
The problem with Medic is you're reliant on other people not being stupid, and on a public server that's a big gamble.
1) Stick with the original knife for now, the Your Eternal Reward and the Conniver's Kunai should be avoided until you know what you are doing (especially the YER.)
2) There are no "best disguise(s)," or "worst disguise(s)." The best disguise is the one that fits the situation. You just have to make sure you play the part. I've had just as much success disguising as a Scout as disguising as a Heavy. I once walked into an enemy intelligence room, had a scout shoot me a few times (to the point that one more shot would have killed me,) he then believed I was on his team, and I spent 10 minutes in that flag room with him before getting the chance to kill him and take the intelligence.
3) Know the layout of a level, especially the locations of all the ammo and health packs (and especially the out of the way ones that people don't either know about or don't grab often.) Knowing all a maps nooks and crannies is probably the most important thing to learn as a Spy since you'll need to know how to sneak up on anyone, where it is safe to cloak/uncloak/disguise without being seen, etc.
4) The revolvers are powerful tools, but you don't need to use them very often. Truthfully you really only need them to shoot Razerback Snipers (I usually like to stand right next to them to do this,) and shooting sentries (from outside it's range) and dispensers (also from a distance if you can't get close enough.) While they are powerful, they do have some bullet scatter like the pistols do, so they aren't always as accurate as you want them to be. The Ambassador is the exception to this if you wait long enough between shots for the cross hair to reset, but even then it generally shoots too slowly to be useful most of the time. Also the revolvers have very distinct sounds when fired, which may alert other players to your presence.
5) Always avoid any confrontation unless it is on your terms. You should always be the one to initiate combat, otherwise it's best to just runaway (see point 3.)
I found the ding annoying when I tried it(Especially playing heavy - DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING DING), but I like having damage displayed for me, and a few other tidy little options.
I'll turn on the ding and see how that works out. I honestly have issues switching weapons on the fly especially when in close range combat.
I'd wish it was switch weapons instead of last weapon.
Drops go live on an update right away so it *could* have dropped for them.
And hopefully my friend who is going to SDCC will be able to get a coupon code for me to get them freeeeeeeeeeee!