Relatively recently (and somewhat unexpectedly) got into an LDR since about early August or so. My "significant other" is definitely an amazing person, but the overall experience is actually kinda tough.
We video chat and play games online and meet up once every 3-weeks (at PAX, Pokemon Worlds, just at each other's places, etc), but it can get pretty lonely during the downtimes.
So I have been on a few dates and my relationship appears to be flourishing. The other day, my partner was telling me about vibrational medicine and it set off a load of alarm bells.
She told me there was evidence for it now and that she was pleased about it because that'd stop people thinking she was crazy.
I told her I was skeptical but I'd look it up. I didn't find it. I guess the burden of proof is on her so I should ask her to show me where to look.
But at the same time I'd rather just not worry about it and enjoy the journey... Grr... Should I just leave this alone?
As long as she isn't thinking about going to Africa to teach people to use vibrational healing to treat malaria instead of science based medicine.
Which actually happened to me when I dated an acupuncturist. I mean, I kinda did up until she told me that, and then I knew it wasn't going to go anywhere.
Yesterday, I had a really rough conversation with my girlfriend. As our relationship is online, she has a hard time talking about things like about meeting each other or even possibly living together. Because financial/travel restrictions, we haven't been able to do it lately. She now feels really confused about if she wants to start dating people in her own country. She wants to be a realist about the situation and doesn't want our relationship to be about devoting to each other just based on dreams and speculation.
At the same time, she's really wrapped up in guilt and confusion about this. She said to me several times she doesn't quite know what she wants or what to say. Even if I ask her straight if she wants me to improve anything about myself or wants me to do anything to be proactive, she's still unsure. She's worried about having too much expectations that couldn't be met at this point. But even then, she also admitted she's barely interested in an acquaintance of hers (mostly because of their parents wanting to push them together) and doubts how she would do in the dating field. She doesn't even say it's about a need for sexual urges.
I've had to say some blunt things to her. I have no urges to be with other women. I'm completely happy with how our relationship is. I had to tell her directly to not pin this on "No matter what, I want you to be happy and experience things." I don't WANT to experience things with other women but her. I'm not going to immediately jump into dating if we break up. I have the faith our relationship will work out when we finally meet and start forming plans. This is one of those situations where I'm not going to back down on this relationship because I believe in it.
I told her explicitly, I don't want her to date other men because I want to date her. But...I can't stop her. I'm not physically there. And I'm not that kind of domineering guy. I feel so afraid that my relationship is going to fall apart not because of our personalities changing or physical problems...but out of her sheer fear of complacency. Especially when I'm not told about any other issues. Most of it is "I don't know." "I don't know what to think." "I don't know what my own future will be." "I hate my own indecisiveness."
Even with how much I tell her how I love her and want her and find her special and how she's the most attractive, interesting woman to me...she still doesn't know. She still fears that things might go bad.
This is terrifying. I don't want us to break apart because of what feels like nothingness. Now I don't know what to explore or say. I feel like I said everything I can. Can I even convince her of anything? I really, genuinely believe we will get somewhere, it just hasn't happened yet.
I know for the better judgment of me, I know the Friend Zone doesn't exist and guys put themselves in there because they thought sex would come from being nice to them. But how can you not feel that way when she tells you "I trust our friendship more than all else" even if we might break up. You just don't tell someone you has openly told you they loved you and sent you gifts and waxed on about your relationship and believe that "Just Friends" is okay at this point. It's hurtful. Is it so wrong to want our relationship to go to that next level as it already has done?
I don't want to come off as pessimistic, just realistic, but you might as well end it now. Or at least prepare for the end now. There is no happy end to this relationship, not until you break up and start a new, fresh, real-life-in-person relationship.
If, for any reason, you are terrified about something in a relationship, and neither you nor the other person has any power to stop you being terrified, it's either a failing, failed, or simply damaging relationship. At the moment you are causing two people unimaginable levels of stress for something that can literally be called "long distance friendship with no benefits".
People change. The person who you are with at the start of your relationship won't be the person you are with 7 months into your relationship, and it will certainly not be the same person 7 years after that. Especially so if you are both young. EVERYONE discovers this.
The disadvantage of being long distance is that it both extends and compresses time. Time spent together feels rushed as you cram in as much as you can before being apart again. Time spent apart drags longer, of course. The changes your partner goes through isn't then a long process that you experience over time, but a jarring realization that hits you each time you meet.
In a non-long-distance relationship, you can learn and react face to face, and if things don't work out, you know there's nothing you can do, and you both move on. But in your situation, you've not seen each other for so long that the changes are creeping in, and are noticeable even via communication channels 100% under your girlfriend's control, unlike the messiness of meeting face to face and the unbounded wonders of body language as an independent side-channel for non-lies, or at least non-untruths.
You think that if you just hang on long enough, your girlfriend will change back to the person she was before. Or that she'll hold on long enough so that you can meet up again and you'll find out what you really need to do to bring her back onside.
In reality, it's likely she just needs/wants a firm fucking, and is questioning the "it's not allowed" albatross around her neck. You say she says it's not that, but she's not going to tell you, because you are the albatross/millstone/pick one.
Don't think I don't speak from very painful experience with any of the above points.
I guess in that terms of etiquette, would I have to be the one to break it up despite the fact that I don't have this level of confusion or doubt compared to her? Since she's the one who wants change or wants to pursue other relationships, can't she just flat out stop it? I can't quite grasp the issue since I don't know exactly everything she feels, so does that give me the duty to end it because these conflicting feelings exist?
I understand that women are taught to let people done gently and still offer friendship even after the break-up...but I don't think I could accept that if we were to break up because of this lack of faith. If we had met in real life before and didn't click, I'd understand that. But because that hasn't happened yet, I'm a bit more concerned and frustrated. Maybe she is so determined on saving the friendship and not wanting to hurt my feelings that she doesn't want to do it...but I'm already distraught. I've told her everything and she's still confused.
I'm more so terrified that we could end because I never knew I had to change. I didn't know she was so unsure or wanted me to do more. But not knowing or not being told is what eats away at you. I genuinely don't want to end it because I'm completely unsure of what made all this indecisiveness sprout up.
Trust me, this advice really helps out. I've never really had to do this before so it prepares me more for the bad outcome.
2. "I don't think I could accept that if we were to break up because of this lack of faith." This is everything that is wrong. If you lack faith/trust in the other person, you don't have the relationship you want to have. Stop lying to yourself.
3. "Hey, this is causing us both distress, and it doesn't have to. I've enjoyed my time with you. I hope you've enjoyed your time with me. If we happen to meet and start something up in the future, that's cool. Relationships change. It's okay for them to end. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with either of us. For now, let's get rid of the relationship commitment and just be friends."
You ARE going to be fine. You are an autonomous human being. If you look at yourself and find things you want to change, change them. Don't try to change things you don't already want to change just to satisfy someone else.
Nuri's generic relationship advice: Get cool with you, and do the things you enjoy doing. In the doing, you may find someone else who is cool with you. If you are also cool with that person, be cool together. If during the course of that relationship something changes and one or both of you is no longer cool with the other, it's okay for the relationship to change or end.
2. "I don't think I could accept that if we were to break up because of this lack of faith." This is everything that is wrong. If you lack faith/trust in the other person, you don't have the relationship you want to have. Stop lying to yourself.
I want to set something straight. She brought up to me that she has this lack of faith. She doesn't know where it wants to go. She's curious about potentially trying to date other people, but she consistently clarifies she has no idea what she wants. I can accept the breakup, but I can't still be immediately friends with someone after breaking up with me. That requires time and healing.
I have faith we will work out. I want it to work. I am willing to change to make everything possible. But if she wants to break up with me to experience new things...then she needs to be the one to say it. Is it wrong to thing that? If she's trying to fall back on "I want you to be happy to, no matter what" and "I still want friendship," but she is so unsure about saying anything definite.
I'm freaked out and sad because there is now doubt in me. I don't know this is a "break" or "vacation" from the relationship or if it's the actual lead up to the break-up. I still love her and trust her more than anyone else, but I have no idea what to think or trust or believe anymore until I have a definite answer.
The thing is, you both have to have faith and trust in the other. It won't work otherwise. I will immediately end a romantic relationship if I find out the other person doesn't trust me.
Do you want to be with a person who doesn't trust you but stays with you out of guilt? Plenty of people have a martyr complex and will sacrifice their own happiness because they think someone else "deserves" to be happy more than they do.
Can you be happy in a relationship knowing the other person isn't?
If you can't do friendship, then just say so. It will be fine. There will be pain, but you will both be fine.
The thing is, you both have to have faith and trust in the other. It won't work otherwise. I will immediately end a romantic relationship if I find out the other person doesn't trust me.
Do you want to be with a person who doesn't trust you but stays with you out of guilt? Plenty of people have a martyr complex and will sacrifice their own happiness because they think someone else "deserves" to be happy more than they do.
Can you be happy in a relationship knowing the other person isn't?
If you can't do friendship, then just say so. It will be fine. There will be pain, but you will both be fine.
Yeah. I don't want to be in the relationship if she isn't happy. What really sucks is that I'm at the point where I don't even know how to access the situation because so much of it goes back to "I don't know or I don't know how I feel."
She puts all of this squarely on her own indecisive nature. So does it go to that martyr complex? If I say too much about how far our relationship has gone, does that tread into guilting her? Is this just a rough patch or is it actually the sign that things should end? The answer to every single question about what is troubling her, what worries her, if there's anything on her mind or any honest, serious concern is "I don't know."
So that's all...incredibly troubling to say the least. There's suddenly no communication there and continued indecisiveness about what she exactly wants is making me really confused and sad and paranoid. Has anyone else experienced something like that? Relationships are tough and hard and this is a conversation that is always open, but this was a roadblock I have no idea how to handle at all.
Dude, even if she doesn't mean to be, she's stringing you along. You're obviously more committed in this than she is, and that sucks, so the best thing for you to do is end it, take the time to deal with the pain, and move on. This is toxic to your well being.
If you've never met your girlfriend in person, it's almost impossible to call it anything more than friendship anyway. Sorry to be blunt, but really you have no claim over her dating options or sex life. You're providing nothing in that department except wishes and dreams. In return you're getting nothing but stress and heartache.
You guys are right. I talked to her again today about if she feels any different any there really isn't any change now other than understanding each other's pain. She did admit though that the only thing I did to make her feel uncomfortable was to start telling people she was my girlfriend. Telling more people about her and praising her in public made her more uncomfortable apparently.
She's going to see her psych on Wednesday to try to sort out some of her own feelings. This'll decide on if we end it now or make the commitment to actually visit one another or pool money together to make it happen. We'll see how it goes, but I'm preparing for the hard choice.
Had a discussion last night with my partner after I dismissed her at a party when she claimed to have once levitated at a group ritual. She was upset with my rudeness.
I talked about how I'd need evidence to accept such a claim as levitation. She'd seen the evidence herself and said that I'd get to see the evidence myself in the future.
She told me the story of how a series of prophetic dreams she had had had let her save her work colleague's life. She worked with rehabilitating dangerous criminals at the time.
She told me she'd seen ghosts and that her niece had seen the same one too at a different time.
My inner rational being is upset with this situation. She must be wrong. Maybe she was tricked. But I know that I need to look at these situations without personal bias using the same evidence based mindset I would encounter a situation which I had no emotional investment. Interestingly she's also into the same evidence based approach as me but she believes that she's already seen the evidence herself as is therefore right about these phenomena.
I think that I need to promise us both that I will believe it when I see it. If she comes out with more of this I think I will have to the attitude I take. And if I do see it then I will believe it.
I'm trying not to let something silly like this ruin what is otherwise beautiful. I'm just bad for overthinking things, and making everything about me.
This will ruin it unless she's still outside of the Randi Event Horizon. If she can be convinced by, say, the failure to levitate someone again in your presence, then there's a chance.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If she's seen a ghost, and ghosts are (therefore) real, that shit is the most important discovery in the history of humanity. That literally changes everything and needs to be in textbooks.
So either, SHE has evidence of something that will literally and foundationally change the world as we know it... or she's mistaken.
Be earnest, but you probably need to (in the words of a great scientist) "rip that band aid off now." She might be beyond the Randi Event Horizon. Those people are permanently lost to reason.
If you want to approach this cleverly, start subtly making similarly extraordinary claims about other things, and see if she challenges you. If she does, use her same arguments (but don't make it obvious what you're doing just yet). Make sure that there are several specific claims that have gone down this road over a period of at least 3-4 weeks.
You have to get her to attack your claims repeatedly on the same grounds that you've attacked hers.
If you can achieve this, then wait for a good opportunity and confront her with this openly the next time she makes an extraordinary claim.
Don't be mean or petty: but follow the strategy and keep a poker face.
Do your best to make her see reason, but if it can't be done, it can't be done. If she is beyond reason there is no hope. James Randi himself said he has not once in his entire life been able to change the mind of a true believer. And that's literally all he works on.
If this is the case, and you stick with it, then there are much worse things down the road. You get married and she gives a bunch of money to charlatans and woo-peddlers. You have children and you have to fight over getting them vaccinated. You love her, but she gets sick and dies because she refused real medicine. The harm caused by having someone with irrational woo beliefs in your life is VAST.
The issue has nothing to do with her being wrong, or you being rational, or anything that should lead you to decide or do anything.
It's about trust. She thinks that you saying she is wrong means that you don't trust her. That's it. She saw something, but you are putting your own thought processes and all that ABOVE her word on the subject.
It doesn't matter that you are right in this case (almost certainly) or that she will never have proof enough to convince you. It matters that she told you something and you put not believing her above believing her. Don't ask for evidence! That's a real dick move!
These experiences for her were REAL experiences. They might have been based on faulty reasoning or unclear perception, but that doesn't make them any less real FOR HER. You trying discount these experiences, or diminish them, is exactly the problem hardcore atheists have with spiritual people. As in, the spiritual experiences are real and meaningful, even if they don't come about because of the reasons the believer thinks they do.
Do not do what Rym suggests. Ridiculing her by making up shit is terrible. It is demeaning real and important life experiences of hers in the past... and for what? To be smug? To be right? To laugh at her behind a straight face?
Do your best to make her see reason, but if it can't be done, it can't be done. If she is beyond reason there is no hope. James Randi himself said he has not once in his entire life been able to change the mind of a true believer. And that's literally all he works on.
Scott, you've got to admit to being wrong on this one. Give it up. Your argument here is the single biggest and most on-point example of the No True Scotsman logical fallacy. I've pointed it out before, and now you're back at it. Do you do it again because you can now mix it with an Appeal To Authority and some Anecdotal Evidence? Do you see if you want to add a fourth in a single paragraph?
If you really see yourself as a proponent of rationality, you'll retract this bullshit and never repeat it.
The issue has nothing to do with her being wrong, or you being rational, or anything that should lead you to decide or do anything.
It's about trust. She thinks that you saying she is wrong means that you don't trust her. That's it. She saw something, but you are putting your own thought processes and all that ABOVE her word on the subject.
It doesn't matter that you are right in this case (almost certainly) or that she will never have proof enough to convince you. It matters that she told you something and you put not believing her above believing her. Don't ask for evidence! That's a real dick move!
These experiences for her were REAL experiences. They might have been based on faulty reasoning or unclear perception, but that doesn't make them any less real FOR HER. You trying discount these experiences, or diminish them, is exactly the problem hardcore atheists have with spiritual people. As in, the spiritual experiences are real and meaningful, even if they don't come about because of the reasons the believer thinks they do.
Do not do what Rym suggests. Ridiculing her by making up shit is terrible. It is demeaning real and important life experiences of hers in the past... and for what? To be smug? To be right? To laugh at her behind a straight face?
You are correct that those experience are real for her. But that is what makes it even worse. A person for whom supernatural things are real is a scary person. Not only should they not be trusted, they should not be associated with. They are a real danger to themselves and others.
Luke is correct that there is no point in arguing to be "right" for the sake of being smug or laughing at them. That is pointless. The only point in even discussing these things would be if you could possibly truly convince them and bring them back to rationality. That is nearly impossible. If it can't, or won't be accomplished, just run away as fast as possible.
Do not do what Rym suggests. Ridiculing her by making up shit is terrible. It is demeaning real and important life experiences of hers in the past... and for what? To be smug? To be right? To laugh at her behind a straight face?
To see if she can understand why her assertions are problematic. To see if she'll attack his ideas and distrust them in the same fashion, and then to see if she realizes the irony in doing so.
If she doesn't see it, attacks his beliefs, and declares them fundamentally different from her own, I have a hard time believing that the relationship will last.
It's about trust. She thinks that you saying she is wrong means that you don't trust her. That's it. She saw something, but you are putting your own thought processes and all that ABOVE her word on the subject.
The thing is, I wouldn't trust someone like that. If someone tells me they've levitated another person, and they are earnest and defend that assertion without evidence, I do not and will likely never trust that person. The relationship would thus never have the possibility of a foundation on trust.
He doesn't trust her. He will, I suspect, never trust her on these assertions. The relationship can not last in a healthy fashion if that is true without a studious avoidance of ever discussing these things or a point of reckoning.
It's probably a fucked up thing, but as I get older, I have almost no energy to deal with irrational people. I often seed conversations with potential new friends or strangers (say, at conventions) with bait topics hoping to "trigger" any crazy woo-woo at the outset.
If someone reacts, and is obviously woo-woo, they basically get one chance to debate it. If crazy continues, I give up and just never talk to them again.
It's misanthropic and probably quite counterproductive. But at the same time, I only have 60 or so years left to live, and I increasingly have no interest in spending them with irrational people for whom debate is impossible.
I used to argue with people on twitter. Now, if someone's obviously dumb or impossible-to-debate, I just block them and never look back.
I used to earnestly try to convince new friends that homeopathy isn't effective. After having had the same conversation with hundreds of people, I never want to have it again. I politely make my exit at the first socially acceptable opportunity and never talk to them again.
I've walled myself off from a good chunk of the world, for better or (probably) worse.
I'm not saying that he should trust her on these assumptions. I'm saying that him being concerned if she is wrong or right on the topic should be secondary to him trying NOT to debunk meaningful and important events or experiences in her life IF he can't replace them with equally meaningful and important experiences.
If you like someone, be the change yourself. Provide them with a new way of living that is just as fulfilling as the old woo-way. If you can't, or if you don't want to, get out now! But if you care about the person, wouldn't it be rewarding to try?*
But Guy, don't let Mr. 40 Year Old Virgin Who Has Never Had A Girlfriend or Mr. Hyper Confident Only One Long Term Relationship be your guide on this. Please. Wait for advice from people who have real life experience, not just hypotheticals.
You are right to a certain extent. My mom is really into homeopathic medicine to try and treat minor issues but I pretty much just say no thank you whenever she suggests stuff like that. My dad isn't into it and my brother tries it but mostly because some of it just makes him feel better with some of his medical problems, he still goes to normal doctors and follows their advice. You don't need to believe it, but sometimes its not really worth disproving something or someone for little to no reason other than personal satisfaction.
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We video chat and play games online and meet up once every 3-weeks (at PAX, Pokemon Worlds, just at each other's places, etc), but it can get pretty lonely during the downtimes.
She told me there was evidence for it now and that she was pleased about it because that'd stop people thinking she was crazy.
I told her I was skeptical but I'd look it up. I didn't find it. I guess the burden of proof is on her so I should ask her to show me where to look.
But at the same time I'd rather just not worry about it and enjoy the journey... Grr... Should I just leave this alone?
Which actually happened to me when I dated an acupuncturist. I mean, I kinda did up until she told me that, and then I knew it wasn't going to go anywhere.
At the same time, she's really wrapped up in guilt and confusion about this. She said to me several times she doesn't quite know what she wants or what to say. Even if I ask her straight if she wants me to improve anything about myself or wants me to do anything to be proactive, she's still unsure. She's worried about having too much expectations that couldn't be met at this point. But even then, she also admitted she's barely interested in an acquaintance of hers (mostly because of their parents wanting to push them together) and doubts how she would do in the dating field. She doesn't even say it's about a need for sexual urges.
I've had to say some blunt things to her. I have no urges to be with other women. I'm completely happy with how our relationship is. I had to tell her directly to not pin this on "No matter what, I want you to be happy and experience things." I don't WANT to experience things with other women but her. I'm not going to immediately jump into dating if we break up. I have the faith our relationship will work out when we finally meet and start forming plans. This is one of those situations where I'm not going to back down on this relationship because I believe in it.
I told her explicitly, I don't want her to date other men because I want to date her. But...I can't stop her. I'm not physically there. And I'm not that kind of domineering guy. I feel so afraid that my relationship is going to fall apart not because of our personalities changing or physical problems...but out of her sheer fear of complacency. Especially when I'm not told about any other issues. Most of it is "I don't know." "I don't know what to think." "I don't know what my own future will be." "I hate my own indecisiveness."
Even with how much I tell her how I love her and want her and find her special and how she's the most attractive, interesting woman to me...she still doesn't know. She still fears that things might go bad.
This is terrifying. I don't want us to break apart because of what feels like nothingness. Now I don't know what to explore or say. I feel like I said everything I can. Can I even convince her of anything? I really, genuinely believe we will get somewhere, it just hasn't happened yet.
I know for the better judgment of me, I know the Friend Zone doesn't exist and guys put themselves in there because they thought sex would come from being nice to them. But how can you not feel that way when she tells you "I trust our friendship more than all else" even if we might break up. You just don't tell someone you has openly told you they loved you and sent you gifts and waxed on about your relationship and believe that "Just Friends" is okay at this point. It's hurtful. Is it so wrong to want our relationship to go to that next level as it already has done?
I don't want to come off as pessimistic, just realistic, but you might as well end it now. Or at least prepare for the end now. There is no happy end to this relationship, not until you break up and start a new, fresh, real-life-in-person relationship.
If, for any reason, you are terrified about something in a relationship, and neither you nor the other person has any power to stop you being terrified, it's either a failing, failed, or simply damaging relationship. At the moment you are causing two people unimaginable levels of stress for something that can literally be called "long distance friendship with no benefits".
People change. The person who you are with at the start of your relationship won't be the person you are with 7 months into your relationship, and it will certainly not be the same person 7 years after that. Especially so if you are both young. EVERYONE discovers this.
The disadvantage of being long distance is that it both extends and compresses time. Time spent together feels rushed as you cram in as much as you can before being apart again. Time spent apart drags longer, of course. The changes your partner goes through isn't then a long process that you experience over time, but a jarring realization that hits you each time you meet.
In a non-long-distance relationship, you can learn and react face to face, and if things don't work out, you know there's nothing you can do, and you both move on. But in your situation, you've not seen each other for so long that the changes are creeping in, and are noticeable even via communication channels 100% under your girlfriend's control, unlike the messiness of meeting face to face and the unbounded wonders of body language as an independent side-channel for non-lies, or at least non-untruths.
You think that if you just hang on long enough, your girlfriend will change back to the person she was before. Or that she'll hold on long enough so that you can meet up again and you'll find out what you really need to do to bring her back onside.
In reality, it's likely she just needs/wants a firm fucking, and is questioning the "it's not allowed" albatross around her neck. You say she says it's not that, but she's not going to tell you, because you are the albatross/millstone/pick one.
Don't think I don't speak from very painful experience with any of the above points.
I guess in that terms of etiquette, would I have to be the one to break it up despite the fact that I don't have this level of confusion or doubt compared to her? Since she's the one who wants change or wants to pursue other relationships, can't she just flat out stop it? I can't quite grasp the issue since I don't know exactly everything she feels, so does that give me the duty to end it because these conflicting feelings exist?
I understand that women are taught to let people done gently and still offer friendship even after the break-up...but I don't think I could accept that if we were to break up because of this lack of faith. If we had met in real life before and didn't click, I'd understand that. But because that hasn't happened yet, I'm a bit more concerned and frustrated. Maybe she is so determined on saving the friendship and not wanting to hurt my feelings that she doesn't want to do it...but I'm already distraught. I've told her everything and she's still confused.
I'm more so terrified that we could end because I never knew I had to change. I didn't know she was so unsure or wanted me to do more. But not knowing or not being told is what eats away at you. I genuinely don't want to end it because I'm completely unsure of what made all this indecisiveness sprout up.
Trust me, this advice really helps out. I've never really had to do this before so it prepares me more for the bad outcome.
2. "I don't think I could accept that if we were to break up because of this lack of faith." This is everything that is wrong. If you lack faith/trust in the other person, you don't have the relationship you want to have. Stop lying to yourself.
3. "Hey, this is causing us both distress, and it doesn't have to. I've enjoyed my time with you. I hope you've enjoyed your time with me. If we happen to meet and start something up in the future, that's cool. Relationships change. It's okay for them to end. It doesn't mean there's something wrong with either of us. For now, let's get rid of the relationship commitment and just be friends."
You ARE going to be fine. You are an autonomous human being. If you look at yourself and find things you want to change, change them. Don't try to change things you don't already want to change just to satisfy someone else.
Nuri's generic relationship advice:
Get cool with you, and do the things you enjoy doing. In the doing, you may find someone else who is cool with you. If you are also cool with that person, be cool together. If during the course of that relationship something changes and one or both of you is no longer cool with the other, it's okay for the relationship to change or end.
I have faith we will work out. I want it to work. I am willing to change to make everything possible. But if she wants to break up with me to experience new things...then she needs to be the one to say it. Is it wrong to thing that? If she's trying to fall back on "I want you to be happy to, no matter what" and "I still want friendship," but she is so unsure about saying anything definite.
I'm freaked out and sad because there is now doubt in me. I don't know this is a "break" or "vacation" from the relationship or if it's the actual lead up to the break-up. I still love her and trust her more than anyone else, but I have no idea what to think or trust or believe anymore until I have a definite answer.
Do you want to be with a person who doesn't trust you but stays with you out of guilt? Plenty of people have a martyr complex and will sacrifice their own happiness because they think someone else "deserves" to be happy more than they do.
Can you be happy in a relationship knowing the other person isn't?
If you can't do friendship, then just say so. It will be fine. There will be pain, but you will both be fine.
She puts all of this squarely on her own indecisive nature. So does it go to that martyr complex? If I say too much about how far our relationship has gone, does that tread into guilting her? Is this just a rough patch or is it actually the sign that things should end? The answer to every single question about what is troubling her, what worries her, if there's anything on her mind or any honest, serious concern is "I don't know."
So that's all...incredibly troubling to say the least. There's suddenly no communication there and continued indecisiveness about what she exactly wants is making me really confused and sad and paranoid. Has anyone else experienced something like that? Relationships are tough and hard and this is a conversation that is always open, but this was a roadblock I have no idea how to handle at all.
She's going to see her psych on Wednesday to try to sort out some of her own feelings. This'll decide on if we end it now or make the commitment to actually visit one another or pool money together to make it happen. We'll see how it goes, but I'm preparing for the hard choice.
I talked about how I'd need evidence to accept such a claim as levitation. She'd seen the evidence herself and said that I'd get to see the evidence myself in the future.
She told me the story of how a series of prophetic dreams she had had had let her save her work colleague's life. She worked with rehabilitating dangerous criminals at the time.
She told me she'd seen ghosts and that her niece had seen the same one too at a different time.
My inner rational being is upset with this situation. She must be wrong. Maybe she was tricked. But I know that I need to look at these situations without personal bias using the same evidence based mindset I would encounter a situation which I had no emotional investment. Interestingly she's also into the same evidence based approach as me but she believes that she's already seen the evidence herself as is therefore right about these phenomena.
I think that I need to promise us both that I will believe it when I see it. If she comes out with more of this I think I will have to the attitude I take. And if I do see it then I will believe it.
I'm trying not to let something silly like this ruin what is otherwise beautiful. I'm just bad for overthinking things, and making everything about me.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If she's seen a ghost, and ghosts are (therefore) real, that shit is the most important discovery in the history of humanity. That literally changes everything and needs to be in textbooks.
So either, SHE has evidence of something that will literally and foundationally change the world as we know it... or she's mistaken.
Be earnest, but you probably need to (in the words of a great scientist) "rip that band aid off now." She might be beyond the Randi Event Horizon. Those people are permanently lost to reason.
If you want to approach this cleverly, start subtly making similarly extraordinary claims about other things, and see if she challenges you. If she does, use her same arguments (but don't make it obvious what you're doing just yet). Make sure that there are several specific claims that have gone down this road over a period of at least 3-4 weeks.
You have to get her to attack your claims repeatedly on the same grounds that you've attacked hers.
If you can achieve this, then wait for a good opportunity and confront her with this openly the next time she makes an extraordinary claim.
Don't be mean or petty: but follow the strategy and keep a poker face.
If this is the case, and you stick with it, then there are much worse things down the road. You get married and she gives a bunch of money to charlatans and woo-peddlers. You have children and you have to fight over getting them vaccinated. You love her, but she gets sick and dies because she refused real medicine. The harm caused by having someone with irrational woo beliefs in your life is VAST.
It's about trust. She thinks that you saying she is wrong means that you don't trust her. That's it. She saw something, but you are putting your own thought processes and all that ABOVE her word on the subject.
It doesn't matter that you are right in this case (almost certainly) or that she will never have proof enough to convince you. It matters that she told you something and you put not believing her above believing her. Don't ask for evidence! That's a real dick move!
These experiences for her were REAL experiences. They might have been based on faulty reasoning or unclear perception, but that doesn't make them any less real FOR HER. You trying discount these experiences, or diminish them, is exactly the problem hardcore atheists have with spiritual people. As in, the spiritual experiences are real and meaningful, even if they don't come about because of the reasons the believer thinks they do.
Do not do what Rym suggests. Ridiculing her by making up shit is terrible. It is demeaning real and important life experiences of hers in the past... and for what? To be smug? To be right? To laugh at her behind a straight face?
If you really see yourself as a proponent of rationality, you'll retract this bullshit and never repeat it.
Luke is correct that there is no point in arguing to be "right" for the sake of being smug or laughing at them. That is pointless. The only point in even discussing these things would be if you could possibly truly convince them and bring them back to rationality. That is nearly impossible. If it can't, or won't be accomplished, just run away as fast as possible.
If she doesn't see it, attacks his beliefs, and declares them fundamentally different from her own, I have a hard time believing that the relationship will last. The thing is, I wouldn't trust someone like that. If someone tells me they've levitated another person, and they are earnest and defend that assertion without evidence, I do not and will likely never trust that person. The relationship would thus never have the possibility of a foundation on trust.
He doesn't trust her. He will, I suspect, never trust her on these assertions. The relationship can not last in a healthy fashion if that is true without a studious avoidance of ever discussing these things or a point of reckoning.
If someone reacts, and is obviously woo-woo, they basically get one chance to debate it. If crazy continues, I give up and just never talk to them again.
It's misanthropic and probably quite counterproductive. But at the same time, I only have 60 or so years left to live, and I increasingly have no interest in spending them with irrational people for whom debate is impossible.
I used to argue with people on twitter. Now, if someone's obviously dumb or impossible-to-debate, I just block them and never look back.
I used to earnestly try to convince new friends that homeopathy isn't effective. After having had the same conversation with hundreds of people, I never want to have it again. I politely make my exit at the first socially acceptable opportunity and never talk to them again.
I've walled myself off from a good chunk of the world, for better or (probably) worse.
And I'm DEEPLY happier for it.
If you like someone, be the change yourself. Provide them with a new way of living that is just as fulfilling as the old woo-way. If you can't, or if you don't want to, get out now! But if you care about the person, wouldn't it be rewarding to try?*
But Guy, don't let Mr. 40 Year Old Virgin Who Has Never Had A Girlfriend or Mr. Hyper Confident Only One Long Term Relationship be your guide on this. Please. Wait for advice from people who have real life experience, not just hypotheticals.
* all other relationship variables being equal.