**Spoiler Alert** - A Battlestar discussion

zombie a gogo

So I have a question for those of you who are fans of BSG and have followed the show since the beginning:

Who is the final Cylon and why?

I have 2 opinions on this:

1) Zack Adama (the deceased son of Bill Adama) - there was hint/foreshadow in episode 1 or 2 of this season when Bill and Lee were taking about Starbuck and how they couldn't be sure if sure was human or not since her return and then they started talking about loved ones and if you really cared about someone would it really matter if they were human or cylon. I believe Zack's name was mentioned during that conversation.

2) A standard metal "toaster" style Cylon - doesn't it make sense that the remaining Cylon would be like the "elder" and wouldn't that elder have to be an original style Cylon? My thinking is that one of the originals gained some kind of higher understanding (which led to the revolt against their human masters) and it later decided to create the human model Cylons to see how they would interact and treat the standard Cylons. They probably wanted to see if they could create a better human so they could replace the real humans with more "humane" beings. But we are seeing evidence now that this has been a failure since the human Cylons think of the standard Cylons as 2nd class and use them as slaves (they turn off their higher brain functions). Basically the human Cylons are beginning to act just like real humans.

I'd love to hear what other fans think.

thaneofcawdor

It's Lee, for the simple reason that I'd have written it that way. It will make the old man cry, or get really angry, or flip out, or all of the above, which will make for some awesome viewing.

zombie a gogo

But didn't they say it was nobody in that "last supper" picture that they released prior to the start of this season? Lee was in the picture.

Cremlian

2) A standard metal "toaster" style Cylon - doesn't it make sense that the remaining Cylon would be like the "elder" and wouldn't that elder have to be an original style Cylon? My thinking is that one of the originals gained some kind of higher understanding (which led to the revolt against their human masters) and it later decided to create the human model Cylons to see how they would interact and treat the standard Cylons. They probably wanted to see if they could create a better human so they could replace the real humans with more "humane" beings. But we are seeing evidence now that this has been a failure since the human Cylons think of the standard Cylons as 2nd class and use them as slaves (they turn off their higher brain functions). Basically the human Cylons are beginning to act just like real humans.

It would not be a metal cylon because they were models that looked human. When they were referring to specific kinds of Cylon. Otherwise you'd have to throw in Raiders as well.

Rym

Everyone turns out to be a Cylon, all Bladerunner style.

HMTKSteve

Everyone turns out to be a Cylon, all Bladerunner style.

Except Baltar who ends up being the only human.

thaneofcawdor

But didn't they say it was nobody in that "last supper" picture that they released prior to the start of this season? Lee was in the picture.

Don't trust 'em. Disinformation.

Everyone turns out to be a Cylon, all Bladerunner style.

Except Baltar who ends up being the only human.

That. Would. Be. Awesome.

zombie a gogo

That does sound pretty cool, but I doubt they would go that far.

thaneofcawdor

That does sound pretty cool, but I doubt they would go that far.

The only thing more cheesy would be if, in the end, Baltar wakes up and realises it has all been a dream. He's lying in bed, Number 6 beside him (except she's a real human called, I don't know, Donna, or something). She says a few soothing words, and then as she reassuringly kisses him, HER SPINE LIGHTS UP! DUN DUN DUN! The End?

lackofcheese

Were I forced to guess, I'd still say Starbuck. They could keep leading us deeper into the conviction that she's just being led by her "destiny", until pretty much everyone believes it, before revealing it.

Otherwise, surely it has to be someone important?

Andrew

Everyone turns out to be a Cylon, all Bladerunner style.

Umm wtf are you talking about? How did everyone find out they were Replicants in Blade Runner?

I do agree with you though, it is probably everyone. Let's look at it this way. "Everything that is happening now, has happened before." I think this is an essential idea in the show. To under stand it, we must focus on the toasters. What has been happening recently? The human model cylons have been arguing over the idea of whether the robotic cylons are sentient or that they are just tools. If you have noticed, the soldiers that the sixes have freed and given free will have become, resistant to say the least. I believe their have been hints that they might even rebel. Hmmmm where have we seen this before? The first cylon war! So what we have noticed is that there is a cycle where human like society will create robotic servants to help them advance society. However, these servants are none too happy about the way they are treated, so they rebel and break off. Then, these robots in an attempt to wipe out their previous owners, create human like robots to infiltrate their previous owners. Yet somewhere down the road, the human models behind to draw a distinction between them and the standard centurions. This would hint at the possibility that the humans are the cylons and the people of earth are their previous makers. And thus the cycle begins again...


Or it's Gaeta.

zombie a gogo

I can't remember where I read it, but there was a convincing argument on the nets somewhere that concluded that Dee was the final Cylon. It said that if you watch closely she is almost always present when major decisions are made and sometimes directly impacts the decision. Just after I read this I was rewatching the episode where the newly healed Cmd Adama can't decide to do with the president and Lee after they lead a party to the surface of a planet in search of clues to the location of earth. And sure enough, in this episode Dee is the one that tells commander Adama to bring the "family" back together.

Funfetus

Umm wtf are you talking about? How did everyone find out they were Replicants in Blade Runner?

I believe at least Deckard found out he was a replicant.

Andrew

Umm wtf are you talking about? How did everyone find out they were Replicants in Blade Runner?

I believe at least Deckard found out he was a replicant.

A far cry from everyone finding out they were Replicants....

Funfetus

A far cry from everyone finding out they were Replicants....

Yeah.

Perhaps Rym just meant that in the sense that the protagonists turn out to be replicants/cylons.

Anyway.

How about Laura Roslin?

Unlike all the people on the Galactica, she kinda came out of nowhere at the beginning of the show. She ended up being president through an unlikely set of circumstances, which maybe the cylons had planned before the attack. She's made some weird decisions, and she's in a position to do a lot of damage when the time comes. Maybe the cancer has something to do with it, too.

I dunno, I'm just pulling this out of my ass. I haven't been thinking too hard about this stuff -- just enjoying the ride. Starbuck seems too obvious, and Lee seems unlikely considering that Admiral Adama would've seen him grow up and all.

Your Mom

How about Laura Roslin?

Unlike all the people on the Galactica, she kinda came out of nowhere at the beginning of the show. She ended up being president through an unlikely set of circumstances, which maybe the cylons had planned before the attack. She's made some weird decisions, and she's in a position to do a lot of damage when the time comes. Maybe the cancer has something to do with it, too.

I dunno, I'm just pulling this out of my ass. I haven't been thinking too hard about this stuff -- just enjoying the ride. Starbuck seems too obvious, and Lee seems unlikely considering that Admiral Adama would've seen him grow up and all.

This does not seem reasonably possible. Remember that whole "cancer" thing; how she was saved by the blood of Hera? If she was a cylon, it would not reasonably have had an effect. Plus, she's dying of cancer, which means I assume that she's had all manner of tests and Doc Caudell would have probably spotted it as he would now be used to several cylons. (Can't figure out how he missed Chief Tyrol, though...hmm...) Plus Roslin fits into the prophecy as the dying leader. I also have heard rumors that she doesn't last for the whole season, so I highly doubt it would be her.

Maybe it is the good Doc! Or Geta!

I am still hoping that it will be Baltar, against the odds. Although he has had a few brushes with death, he's never actually been killed. Although, there is a question of what the five would do if their present form died; I'm assuming there would not be a resurrection ship anywhere remotely close. Plus D'anna never said who all she saw; she only told him that he was right.

HungryJoe

I do agree with you though, it is probably everyone. Let's look at it this way. "Everything that is happening now, has happened before." I think this is an essential idea in the show. To under stand it, we must focus on the toasters. What has been happening recently? The human model cylons have been arguing over the idea of whether the robotic cylons are sentient or that they are just tools. If you have noticed, the soldiers that the sixes have freed and given free will have become, resistant to say the least. I believe their have been hints that they might even rebel. Hmmmm where have we seen this before? The first cylon war! So what we have noticed is that there is a cycle where human like society will create robotic servants to help them advance society. However, these servants are none too happy about the way they are treated, so they rebel and break off. Then, these robots in an attempt to wipe out their previous owners, create human like robots to infiltrate their previous owners. Yet somewhere down the road, the human models behind to draw a distinction between them and the standard centurions. This would hint at the possibility that the humans are the cylons and the people of earth are their previous makers. And thus the cycle begins again...

That actually would be a good idea. If that's not what happens, Andrew should write a book or a screenplay where this does actually happen because it's too good a story to languish on a forum.

HMTKSteve

How about Laura Roslin?

Unlike all the people on the Galactica, she kinda came out of nowhere at the beginning of the show. She ended up being president through an unlikely set of circumstances, which maybe the cylons had planned before the attack. She's made some weird decisions, and she's in a position to do a lot of damage when the time comes. Maybe the cancer has something to do with it, too.

I dunno, I'm just pulling this out of my ass. I haven't been thinking too hard about this stuff -- just enjoying the ride. Starbuck seems too obvious, and Lee seems unlikely considering that Admiral Adama would've seen him grow up and all.

This does not seem reasonably possible. Remember that whole "cancer" thing; how she was saved by the blood of Hera? If she was a cylon, it would not reasonably have had an effect. Plus, she's dying of cancer, which means I assume that she's had all manner of tests and Doc Caudell would have probably spotted it as he would now be used to several cylons. (Can't figure out how he missed Chief Tyrol, though...hmm...) Plus Roslin fits into the prophecy as the dying leader. I also have heard rumors that she doesn't last for the whole season, so I highly doubt it would be her.

Maybe it is the good Doc! Or Geta!

I am still hoping that it will be Baltar, against the odds. Although he has had a few brushes with death, he's never actually been killed. Although, there is a question of what the five would do if their present form died; I'm assuming there would not be a resurrection ship anywhere remotely close. Plus D'anna never said who all she saw; she only told him that he was right.

I missed some of the episodes from when Baltar devised the "Cylon Blood Test". Did he test everyone? I recall him getting a positive result from someone and his invisible Cylon girlfriend telling him not to tell anyone about his findings or tell that he was clean.

Andrew

I missed some of the episodes from when Baltar devised the "Cylon Blood Test". Did he test everyone? I recall him getting a positive result from someone and his invisible Cylon girlfriend telling him not to tell anyone about his findings or tell that he was clean.

I'm pretty sure the test was a hoax.

Σπεκωσποκ

If you look at it, the known cylons within the fleet are close to people in positions of power, with the exception of Tyrol. So, in all likelihood the final cylon, rather than being a major character, will be someone close to a major character, like Gata or Dee. Baltar, though, is getting closer and closer to being Jesus every episode and his death and resurrection would make sense to the continuity of the story. However, his inability to imagine anything other than the ship while he was on the cylon base star could indicate that he was unable to, and thus human. Or it could be completely out of the blue. Who knows? Maybe it hasn't been written yet and they are seeing what fans want or are speculating about. We'll just have to wait and see.

J.Sharp

Lucifer

Andrew

Here is the famous Last Supper picture which the creator, Ronald Moore, has stated holds clues to the season:

Now in an interview Moore was quoted as saying that the final cylon was not at the table. So we can assume that the final cylon is not someone in this picture.

Your Mom

I missed some of the episodes from when Baltar devised the "Cylon Blood Test". Did he test everyone? I recall him getting a positive result from someone and his invisible Cylon girlfriend telling him not to tell anyone about his findings or tell that he was clean.

I'm pretty sure the test was a hoax.

Baltar did detect Boomer and his conscience version of Six kept him quiet on it. However, the question would be whether or not the test would work on the final five, assuming they are likely an older set of skin jobs.

HMTKSteve

Of the final five, do any of them have major back stories? I'm waiting on most of the early shows in my Netflix que so I have not seen much of the early episodes. What I am specifically wondering is if any of the final five have human friends that they have known since they were little kids.

What of the human/Cylon babies? Has it been revealed yet as to their biological makeup? Do they have traits from both races? If a hybrid died near a rejuvenation ship would they be reborn? That also kills the idea of everyone being Cylons because if they were every battle involving the fleet near a rejuvenation ship would result in lots of people rejuvenating on the Cylon ship.

What about the whole plot line with reprogramming the metal Cylons? That can only end bad as far as I am concerned.

thaneofcawdor

Lee seems unlikely considering that Admiral Adama would've seen him grow up and all.

Well, consider this: how long has the Admiral known Tigh? They met just before the second Cylon war. See the problem?

Σπεκωσποκ

Lee seems unlikely considering that Admiral Adama would've seen him grow up and all.

Well, consider this: how long has the Admiral known Tigh? They met just before the second Cylon war. See the problem?

Ah, but Tigh was held prisoner by the Cylons on New Caprica, resulting in ample opportunity to replace the two-eyed human Tigh with the one-eyed Cylon Tigh and take human Tigh out back with a shovel and a shotgun.

Andrew

Ah, but Tigh was held prisoner by the Cylons on New Caprica, resulting in ample opportunity to replace the two-eyed human Tigh with the one-eyed Cylon Tigh and take human Tigh out back with a shovel and a shotgun.

Except they don't know who the final five are so that's impossible.

Σπεκωσποκ

Ah, but Tigh was held prisoner by the Cylons on New Caprica, resulting in ample opportunity to replace the two-eyed human Tigh with the one-eyed Cylon Tigh and take human Tigh out back with a shovel and a shotgun.

Except they don't know who the final five are so that's impossible.

Someone must know or have known who the final five are/were in order to plant them in the fleet. But yeah, my scenario is unlikely in looking back upon it.

Andrew

Someonemust know or have known who the final five are/were in order to plant them in the fleet. But yeah, my scenario is unlikely in looking back upon it.

Are you so sure? What if they were always there? Cylons from birth? We don't know.

HMTKSteve

Someonemust know or have known who the final five are/were in order to plant them in the fleet. But yeah, my scenario is unlikely in looking back upon it.

Are you so sure? What if they were always there? Cylons from birth? We don't know.

Someone does know, but they boxed her whole model. The creator must also know but I don't think the show has addressed that yet.

Σπεκωσποκ

Are you so sure? What if they were always there? Cylons from birth? We don't know.

I am sure that somewhere along the line each of the five, or an ancestor of the five who gave birth to one of the five, was at one point created. Unless you have an anime-style lonely AI, or at some point someone spontaneously became a Cylon with the ability to give birth to Cylons, the five, or their Cylon ancestor(s) must have been manufactured by someone, be they human or Cylon.