In tangentially related news, I got downvoted/shouted down into a hole on reddit last night for saying that most Libertarians are privileged white males. Shame on me. :P
Yes, shame on you for saying something that is demonstrably true, you utter bastard.
I'm kind of reminded by various articles about women who aren't feminists, not because they don't believe that women deserve equal rights, but because they think that the most vocal (if not the most mainstream) feminists have gone totally off the deep end. We're talking about some of the extreme nutters who think that even consensual male/female sex is always rape or who won't allow mothers to bring their sons into battered woman shelters because their sons are male. That sort of thing.
I think I said something to the effect of "I'm not really a feminist or any of that, I just think we should all not be enormous dicks to people especially on an institutional level" on the last FNPL, but I'm not sure because A)I don't really remember anything I say on any show until I listen to it again, and B)I was running on about two hours of fitful sleep at best.
Every movement, no matter how well-intentioned, attracts extremists and nutters. One of the tests of a movement is how it deals with them, or having had them in the past, moves away from those ideals. Libertarianism, on the whole, has not done well, accepting these people with open arms, and in some cases, idolizing them. Feminisim - at least until the latest round of the Fourth-wave intersectionalist sorts, where things are starting to go off the rails a bit - dealt with it well, by hearing out the more hardcore, taking on board their good ideas, and eliminating the stuff that was too crazy.
For example, Andrea Dworkin - who was the first one to publically and loudly espouse the view that all sex is rape - was also a very important feminist whose work was foundational to our modern concept of the patriarchy. However, while the idea of the patriarchy has remained(and grown, as these things do over time), you don't find many radical "All heterosexual sex is rape" feminists around anymore.
No, but you find other radical viewpoints being repeated and supported in its place. The trouble is that with the internet everybody has a megaphone. It's pretty disheartening when it becomes institutionalized in places like /r/feminism, though, because then it has credibility. They went through a long jag of defending condemnation of "stare rape" for one example.
That's not to say that male gaze can't ever be an issue, but it's a more sociological issue with cultural implications and cultural solutions than a physical one. It certainly doesn't rise to the severity of rape. But for weeks and weeks /r/feminism mods supported the idea that it does.
Not that /r/feminism speaks for modern feminists as a whole, but they've got credibility of size and reach.
Discrediting movements and ideologies is easy and it's something anybody with an important message ought to be vigilant about, but humans are humans and humans get frustrated and angry. Tough problem.
While that's true in that case(as even you note about how it isn't speaking for feminists as a whole), I personally prefer to avoid using reddit as an example like that - the nature of the platform provides incentive to simply say what will please the crowd, and makes it all too easy to suppress dissent of any type, leading to a lot of different spaces which are simply echo-chambers for that chosen area's popular opinion - the ratio of extreme sorts to moderates doesn't have to be far out of whack to accelerate the process, either, considering most people will look away(or even just leave) rather than get involved against the loud and aggressive but somewhat cohesive group.
It's not that you're wrong, I'm not saying you are, it's more that the platform itself makes it hard to draw an accurate measure, and that's something we should be mindful of. And something that should give a bit of peace of mind - sure, it's bad there, but there's a reason for it that can be understood, even if it's not exactly nice to see in action.
Reddit is especially prone to dirty forum tricks, but isn't THAT unique in that regard. It still is something that can generally be thwarted by diligence and clarity of stance (and the willingness to reject extremist viewpoints even if you perceive them to be "on your side.") I mean sure, if you're getting brigaded by 4chan, that's pretty much a wash, but otherwise...
Most people looking away or leaving when their message is getting hijacked is the problem just as much as the underlying issues are. This applies to WAY MORE than feminism, of course.
What it all comes down to is "Humans suck at being objective so the best medicine is your earnest attempt at calm rationality" I guess.
Not that there shouldn't be rant spaces, but probably not in places intended to also be representative of your cause/ideology.
Well my initial thoughts on the topic were solidified after actually going to a strip bar with friends when I went to University. The girls ended up sitting with us after their act and they felt completely empowered, weren't fooling themselves and were incredibly honest.
Real life conversations for these subjects assist in helping people work out the situation.
Not forums or reddit which is why I don't give these parts of the Internet my attention on the subject.
Well that's fine for your understanding of the issues, but sadly there are a thousand or more people to balance you that ARE influenced by those places, so.. what do? It's all well and good to be above it all except that it's kinda antithetical to advocacy and common understanding.
Well I doubt it's the majority of people on the internet, but I don't believe for a second that these places are self contained and don't flavor the conversation elsewhere.
Well I doubt it's the majority of people on the internet, but I don't believe for a second that these places are self contained and don't flavor the conversation elsewhere.
I agree with that, I guess it may be likened to the rift between academia and the real world.
My daughter calls it "Tumblr Feminism" because that's where she encounters it. I think it's something a lot of people are aware of and have to decide about, but where the boundaries of extremist viewpoints and troll battles and etc etc are, who knows.
My flu is gone but I still have a really bad gut. This is very, very stressful as I'm performing twice a day at the Ed Fringe, along with loads of promotional work. When you fart in the morning and shit yourself by accident, it means that the rest of the day is very, very on edge.
Buried in an online argument for daring to suggest that the Slippery Slope Fallacy does not apply to any and all attempts to discuss the consequences of any action or decision.
Actually I had a similar experience going to SLC this past weekend. Didn't have a lot of time and was starving. Only quick thing in my area was a Burger King. Got some chicken sammich thing. Felt sick for a bit afterwards. Just can't really handle that food anymore.
In the 12 hour window my new phone could have been delivered, I was in the shower when the Fedex guy came by. But that's a tiny fail compared to how insanely pissed off this made me, easily an order of magnitude greater than any reasonable amount. What the fuck is wrong with me.
I'm being forced to do a beginners Engineering unit which is essentially just a big group project.
No one knows how cloud computing works, Google docs is apparently too hard, Hangouts is alien yet Facetime is an option, one person doesn't have access to the Internet another one uses an iPad to write research on but does so in a manner that looks like a scrap book, sending a 4mb word file from her iPad. People take 5 days to respond to emails.
Non Internet kids are scarily stupid compared to their counterparts (last semester all my projects were on Github with all other communication on emails with responses within 2 minutes).
In the 12 hour window my new phone could have been delivered, I was in the shower when the Fedex guy came by. But that's a tiny fail compared to how insanely pissed off this made, easily an order of magnitude greater than any reasonable amount. What the fuck is wrong with me.
I know those feels, the Auspost guys that deliver parcels will knock on the door and run back to their van because most people are at work and they have large routes. 50% of the time I get them, the other 50% of the time I have to go to the post office.
It was really great when I lived in an apartment with my post office across the road.
I know those feels, the Auspost guys that deliver parcels will knock on the door and run back to their van because most people are at work and they have large routes. 50% of the time I get them, the other 50% of the time I have to go to the post office.
To be honest, if I don't answer the door when a parcel is being delivered, I don't mind having to go to the post office to pick it up. It beats leaving it on the front doorstep where it's likely to get stolen (which has happened to me before).
The annoying thing is that only the postal service really has conveniently located post offices. If your package is being delivered by FedEx or UPS or some other private shipping service, you often have to go to some semi-remote shipping warehouse in order to pick up your package. I think one of the big shipping services now offers you to have your package dropped off at one of their local affiliates (I thin it's FedEx since they purchased Kinko's and now have tons of local offices all over the place), which is actually not quite so bad as they are pretty ubiquitous.
In the 12 hour window my new phone could have been delivered, I was in the shower when the Fedex guy came by. But that's a tiny fail compared to how insanely pissed off this made me, easily an order of magnitude greater than any reasonable amount. What the fuck is wrong with me.
It's kind of ridiculous how often I have issues getting packages from Fedex. It feels like their failure-to-deliver-on-first-try rate with me is about 80%, whereas UPS is less than 5%. Just last week I knew they were delivering a package that I needed to sign for, and they said the delivery time that day would be around 4:30pm. Actual deliver time? 11:30am, when I'm still at work. WTF? They have also not delivered on the day they said they would, claiming that no one was home to receive it (though strangely I never got a call from the callbox, nor was any note left on the door). They straight up marked a package as return to sender, claiming that the receiver didn't live there (I guess all houses/apartments are expected to have every person living there on the outside for all see?). /endrant
Seriously, if I had the choice, I would never let someone send something to me using Fedex. I have had 0 issues with UPS/USPS, but Fedex is almost every time. They must give out good rates or something because their service is terrible (at least here it is).
It would be really, really had to live without a doorman now that I am accustomed to having one. Packages are just automatically taken care of no matter what.
Apparently, according to /r/mensrights, if you go outside in a skirt, your panties are in "public view" and it's "State violence" that there are anti-upskirting laws.
/r/mensrights suffers from a lot of trolling and poor moderation. There have been about a dozen takeover attempts that I'm aware of. It's pretty much a wasteland now.
/r/egalitarian is generally much more interesting.
Comments
Every movement, no matter how well-intentioned, attracts extremists and nutters. One of the tests of a movement is how it deals with them, or having had them in the past, moves away from those ideals. Libertarianism, on the whole, has not done well, accepting these people with open arms, and in some cases, idolizing them. Feminisim - at least until the latest round of the Fourth-wave intersectionalist sorts, where things are starting to go off the rails a bit - dealt with it well, by hearing out the more hardcore, taking on board their good ideas, and eliminating the stuff that was too crazy.
For example, Andrea Dworkin - who was the first one to publically and loudly espouse the view that all sex is rape - was also a very important feminist whose work was foundational to our modern concept of the patriarchy. However, while the idea of the patriarchy has remained(and grown, as these things do over time), you don't find many radical "All heterosexual sex is rape" feminists around anymore.
That's not to say that male gaze can't ever be an issue, but it's a more sociological issue with cultural implications and cultural solutions than a physical one. It certainly doesn't rise to the severity of rape. But for weeks and weeks /r/feminism mods supported the idea that it does.
Not that /r/feminism speaks for modern feminists as a whole, but they've got credibility of size and reach.
Discrediting movements and ideologies is easy and it's something anybody with an important message ought to be vigilant about, but humans are humans and humans get frustrated and angry. Tough problem.
It's not that you're wrong, I'm not saying you are, it's more that the platform itself makes it hard to draw an accurate measure, and that's something we should be mindful of. And something that should give a bit of peace of mind - sure, it's bad there, but there's a reason for it that can be understood, even if it's not exactly nice to see in action.
Most people looking away or leaving when their message is getting hijacked is the problem just as much as the underlying issues are. This applies to WAY MORE than feminism, of course.
What it all comes down to is "Humans suck at being objective so the best medicine is your earnest attempt at calm rationality" I guess.
Not that there shouldn't be rant spaces, but probably not in places intended to also be representative of your cause/ideology.
Real life conversations for these subjects assist in helping people work out the situation.
Not forums or reddit which is why I don't give these parts of the Internet my attention on the subject.
I can like, relate.
And it has a terrible title.
http://www.reddit.com/r/relationships/comments/2cpgy4/update_i_32f_just_discovered_my_husband_34_of_six/
Nearly vomited after finishing the meal, probably should have.
Actually I had a similar experience going to SLC this past weekend. Didn't have a lot of time and was starving. Only quick thing in my area was a Burger King. Got some chicken sammich thing. Felt sick for a bit afterwards. Just can't really handle that food anymore.
No one knows how cloud computing works, Google docs is apparently too hard, Hangouts is alien yet Facetime is an option, one person doesn't have access to the Internet another one uses an iPad to write research on but does so in a manner that looks like a scrap book, sending a 4mb word file from her iPad. People take 5 days to respond to emails.
Non Internet kids are scarily stupid compared to their counterparts (last semester all my projects were on Github with all other communication on emails with responses within 2 minutes).
I know those feels, the Auspost guys that deliver parcels will knock on the door and run back to their van because most people are at work and they have large routes. 50% of the time I get them, the other 50% of the time I have to go to the post office.
It was really great when I lived in an apartment with my post office across the road.
The annoying thing is that only the postal service really has conveniently located post offices. If your package is being delivered by FedEx or UPS or some other private shipping service, you often have to go to some semi-remote shipping warehouse in order to pick up your package. I think one of the big shipping services now offers you to have your package dropped off at one of their local affiliates (I thin it's FedEx since they purchased Kinko's and now have tons of local offices all over the place), which is actually not quite so bad as they are pretty ubiquitous.
Seriously, if I had the choice, I would never let someone send something to me using Fedex. I have had 0 issues with UPS/USPS, but Fedex is almost every time. They must give out good rates or something because their service is terrible (at least here it is).
/r/egalitarian is generally much more interesting.