I haven't been to TumblrinAction for a long time. I remember when it was progressives having a laugh people who had well and truly gone off the deep end. Nowdays, it's basically the home of MRAs, Bio-troofs mean wimmins is weak, dumb and hysterical, some right-wing/libertarian/ancaps, and all the people who hate and fear women enough to be in gamergate, but don't like video games that much.
While Kotakuinaction is the home of Gamergate, TiA has become the representative and mascot for Reddit's general anti-progressive, anti-feminist right-wing stance.
Yeah pretty much, except in hindsight I don't know if I was actually around during the good old days. There's occasionally still some good stuff but you have to dig through shit to find it. Nowadays it's almost purely "blackall lives matter".
Yeah pretty much, except in hindsight I don't know if I was actually around during the good old days. There's occasionally still some good stuff but you have to dig through shit to find it. Nowadays it's almost purely "blackall lives matter".
Unfortunately. It used to be dumb headline, and then some jokes and maybe a discussion about how it's a misinterpretation of feminist theory and/or reality. Then, it was a case of checking out the links and ignoring the comments. And now, it's mostly ignore both, with occasional nuggets of worthwhile stuff.
It's the usual progression for a subreddit like this - you have a bunch of moderates, a few odious pricks come in and start shitting up the place a bit, a few moderates leave, a few more pricks come in, a few more moderates leave, etc, etc, until all you have left is the assholes.
I haven't been to TumblrinAction for a long time. I remember when it was progressives having a laugh people who had well and truly gone off the deep end. Nowdays, it's basically the home of MRAs, Bio-troofs mean wimmins is weak, dumb and hysterical, some right-wing/libertarian/ancaps, and all the people who hate and fear women enough to be in gamergate, but don't like video games that much.
While Kotakuinaction is the home of Gamergate, TiA has become the representative and mascot for Reddit's general anti-progressive, anti-feminist right-wing stance.
Are you and I reading the same Reddit? TiA is pretty right wing extreme yes, but the majority of the site is very left-leaning, and most comments to the contrary get downvoted to hell.
Reddit is Left wing in the same way Libertarianisim is left wing - Very in favor of legalizing weed, not big on religion, but right-wing to the core otherwise.
We call ourselves left-wing, and we point to the smaller progressive subreddits, but reddit on the whole is constantly attacking progressive thought, hating on feminists and feminism, attacking what's normally left wing political points("Why would we raise the minimum wage? There's no incentive for me to become an engineer if I don't make that much more than some kid at McDonalds!" is genuinely an argument I've seen there), we've upvoted right-wing think-tank agenda videos to the front page on multiple occasions because they pat us on the head and tell us our opinions are clever.
Face it dude, we tell ourselves we're a left-wing group, but we're just telling ourselves that to make us feel better. The closest reddit comes to left wing is taking that political compass test on the site of the same name, and feeling comforted by the fact it comes up "left/libertarian", despite that it will come up left libertarian 99% of the time even if you just answer by plugging in the results of a random number generator.
Reddit still just seems so weird to me. I can't shake the "4chan for the masses" impression I first got from it. Although that might just be Tumblr from what little I've seen of it.
Churba is spot on. It's kind of distressing to know that most redditors ACTUALLY DO SEEM TO THINK THEY'RE LIBERAL while being anything but, except on very specific issues that appeal to their broader demographic.
I do suspect a fair amount of astroturfing and debate-shaping to be going on there, though. /r/undelete can get a little conspiracy-theorist, but there's also some interesting insights to be had there if you're willing to sift it all.
My manga studio file somehow got corrupted and I could finish my project in time that was due this morning. Today is a stay in bed and fuck the world day.
Reddit still just seems so weird to me. I can't shake the "4chan for the masses" impression I first got from it. Although that might just be Tumblr from what little I've seen of it.
That's because it's all the same. It's large number of people saying whatever they want to a supposedly huge crowd, where no one cares or listens as they are too busy shouting their own things.
To me that's tumblr, but I can certainly see how it applies to reddit. Reddit does have smaller sub communities where discussion takes place (receptiveness to new ideas and viewpoints varies) while Tumblr seems to actively discourage any interaction other than HEY THIS IS ME LOOK AT WHAT I LIKE.
There's actually a lot of good stuff on tumblr, and it's easier to find than the good stuff on reddit. It gets a bad name because it houses these cultures like otherkin and extremist queer activism, but if you never go looking for that you can have a perfectly good time there.
There's actually a lot of good stuff on tumblr, and it's easier to find than the good stuff on reddit. It gets a bad name because it houses these cultures like otherkin and extremist queer activism, but if you never go looking for that you can have a perfectly good time there.
Otherkin don't bother me, they're kids and they'll grow out of it. Extremist gay/trans/feminist/etc activism can be a problem when it's violent and tries to marginalize classes seen as aggressors (as well as tell minority/oppressed classes "how they should be"), but again, mostly kids.
I don't agree that it's easy to find the good stuff. I find Tumblr insanely difficult to search and reddit very easy, but that's probably down to familiarity with the platform.
My main "gripe" about tumblr, to the extent that I spend enough time thinking about it to gripe about it, is that it's not really a discussion/collaborative platform in any way and its design actively discourages basically anything other than posting a slew of shit on your feed for others to consume. Any exchange/rebuttal/conversation happens incidentally if ever.
Tumblr makes it pretty easy to find a lot of stuff that you agree with/agrees with you, due to their suggested blogs feature. Unless you go looking, which IS a pain in the ass, you can easily set up an echo chamber/circlejerk in your newsfeed there.
Also you're right Muppet that Tumblr is not set up to be a platform for discussion, but I don't think that was it's original intended purpose. Still, that's why I stick to inconsequential things on it, like following my favorite artists.
It's fine if that's not what it was designed for, and I get that, but when teenagers are basically abandoning facebook in droves (also fine), etc, and their socialization is pretty much tumblr (where people get them) and their limited scope IRL socialization (where nobody, or very few people, get them)... that's kind of a recipe for disaster, I think.
The only mass chat rooms any young person seems to use anymore are intended for hooking up.
It's a weird, isolationist culture that I don't get at all and that can't possibly be healthy.
At least there's conventions, which I think are SUPER healthy, especially for marginalized groups, but outside of that there seems to be only Tumblr, and that's concerning.
EDIT - obviously very generalized as places such as this exist, but mainstream teens aren't really using special interest or OT forums as a group. Even my kid who's, well, sorry but wicked smart, is basically just on tumblr and Facebook once a week. I don't think her email account has been used in a year, and she's not on any forums. She's not unusual amongst her peers whatsoever, from what I gather.
Oh it isn't healthy. I'm a product of that type of socialization, and it's only been the past few years that I've had to break out of that shell for my jobs and university. At least with Reddit you have the opportunity to see opposing viewpoints if you look hard enough, but it is becoming a hivemind. Tumblr is more walled gardens, which isn't conducive to broad discussions.
Not to defend reddit as some sort of paragon, because it's not, but you can just as easily challenge yourself severely on reddit as you can find huge circlejerks. It just takes some time.
My positions on feminism, social justice, LGBT, and similar, have all been challenged, improved, fixed, and made more informed and robust by reddit (although there is a tendency in certain subreddits to ban people who actually want to learn something because the knee-jerk response is to label them sea lions and other stupidity.)
It's hard depending on the subject matter, I guess, but very possible. I'm not sure where to point as a great example of how these platforms SHOULD work, because I don't think the definitive model exists.
Muppet, that's because reddit is the platform you have been using. Had you been involved in discussions, or communication in tubmrl or 4chan even, you could maybe say same thing about those places. But because you have only used Reddit, of course it seems like a only place that can impact you in that manner.
Reddit is literally built from the ground up to be a discussion platform, though. There are a lot of echo chambers, but the architecture of the software is that of a discussion platform. The same isn't true of Tumblr at all.
4chan had good intentions I think, but it basically became what reddit is trying (misguidedly and ineffectively) to stop itself from becoming: a cesspool for the worst the internet has to offer.
I was trying to back off from being way too general and derailing the conversation with "but we're here on FRC", but yeah, I agree. I think it goes beyond that, though. I think places like this are becoming VERY niche. It's not a good thing.
Muppet, that's because reddit is the platform you have been using. Had you been involved in discussions, or communication in tubmrl or 4chan even, you could maybe say same thing about those places. But because you have only used Reddit, of course it seems like a only place that can impact you in that manner.
Discussion can happen on Tumblr, but it is so unwieldy that it, for all intents and purposes, it limits discussion just by its architecture. Trying to read a 5 reblog pyramid and keep up with who said what is a pain in the ass, now imagine 20 people getting into a discussion. Now also imagine threads breaking off from the original point made to discuss other things entirely and you've got a hot mess.
I was trying to back off from being way too general and derailing the conversation with "but we're here on FRC", but yeah, I agree. I think it goes beyond that, though. I think places like this are becoming VERY niche. It's not a good thing.
Such has always been the way.
A TON of people read this forum, but do not actively post.
Most Internet conversation among strangers is the same small set of pointless arguments over and over. Here, the arguments are mostly settled, and what's left is philosophical or esoteric at best.
I just don't really like Reddit because it seems like an easy vector for people to try and find communities of like minded people, but it just has no character since it's all purpose. 4chan is all purpose as well but has very distinct character to me (although I never really went on anything but /b/). A LOT of people I know use Reddit, and they're people that would never post on a forum like this. But also Reddit, like Tumblr, have that viral aspect to them that 4chan had, but it's just so superficial. I felt like if something came out of 4chan, it was some quality material. But if you went in there you saw the black underbelly. There's no black underbelly to Reddit, it just seems like a rehash of the surface material from that underbelly.
And more than anything it just makes me feel like it's supposed to be "Internet-ing made easy" which just seems lame to me.
Comments
blackall lives matter".It's the usual progression for a subreddit like this - you have a bunch of moderates, a few odious pricks come in and start shitting up the place a bit, a few moderates leave, a few more pricks come in, a few more moderates leave, etc, etc, until all you have left is the assholes.
We call ourselves left-wing, and we point to the smaller progressive subreddits, but reddit on the whole is constantly attacking progressive thought, hating on feminists and feminism, attacking what's normally left wing political points("Why would we raise the minimum wage? There's no incentive for me to become an engineer if I don't make that much more than some kid at McDonalds!" is genuinely an argument I've seen there), we've upvoted right-wing think-tank agenda videos to the front page on multiple occasions because they pat us on the head and tell us our opinions are clever.
Face it dude, we tell ourselves we're a left-wing group, but we're just telling ourselves that to make us feel better. The closest reddit comes to left wing is taking that political compass test on the site of the same name, and feeling comforted by the fact it comes up "left/libertarian", despite that it will come up left libertarian 99% of the time even if you just answer by plugging in the results of a random number generator.
I do suspect a fair amount of astroturfing and debate-shaping to be going on there, though. /r/undelete can get a little conspiracy-theorist, but there's also some interesting insights to be had there if you're willing to sift it all.
I don't agree that it's easy to find the good stuff. I find Tumblr insanely difficult to search and reddit very easy, but that's probably down to familiarity with the platform.
My main "gripe" about tumblr, to the extent that I spend enough time thinking about it to gripe about it, is that it's not really a discussion/collaborative platform in any way and its design actively discourages basically anything other than posting a slew of shit on your feed for others to consume. Any exchange/rebuttal/conversation happens incidentally if ever.
Also you're right Muppet that Tumblr is not set up to be a platform for discussion, but I don't think that was it's original intended purpose. Still, that's why I stick to inconsequential things on it, like following my favorite artists.
The only mass chat rooms any young person seems to use anymore are intended for hooking up.
It's a weird, isolationist culture that I don't get at all and that can't possibly be healthy.
At least there's conventions, which I think are SUPER healthy, especially for marginalized groups, but outside of that there seems to be only Tumblr, and that's concerning.
EDIT - obviously very generalized as places such as this exist, but mainstream teens aren't really using special interest or OT forums as a group. Even my kid who's, well, sorry but wicked smart, is basically just on tumblr and Facebook once a week. I don't think her email account has been used in a year, and she's not on any forums. She's not unusual amongst her peers whatsoever, from what I gather.
My positions on feminism, social justice, LGBT, and similar, have all been challenged, improved, fixed, and made more informed and robust by reddit (although there is a tendency in certain subreddits to ban people who actually want to learn something because the knee-jerk response is to label them sea lions and other stupidity.)
It's hard depending on the subject matter, I guess, but very possible. I'm not sure where to point as a great example of how these platforms SHOULD work, because I don't think the definitive model exists.
4chan had good intentions I think, but it basically became what reddit is trying (misguidedly and ineffectively) to stop itself from becoming: a cesspool for the worst the internet has to offer.
Now also imagine threads breaking off from the original point made to discuss other things entirely and you've got a hot mess.
A TON of people read this forum, but do not actively post.
Most Internet conversation among strangers is the same small set of pointless arguments over and over. Here, the arguments are mostly settled, and what's left is philosophical or esoteric at best.
And more than anything it just makes me feel like it's supposed to be "Internet-ing made easy" which just seems lame to me.