Ergo, as I said before, it could be the best game in the world, but I will never know it. I won't ever play it.
That's a shame, because it is pretty awesome. Once again Iwantact all bothered by how much weight you put on something that I just find amusing, but I really haven't got an argument beyond that. More power to ya', I suppose.
It is a shame that the creators of what may be a good game felt they needed to utilize a concept and design that reduces its female character to a gross stereotype that promotes an unrealistic body type and a form of stiletto-badassery that is in no way genuinely empowering or inspiring. If it is such a good game, it shouldn't need to pander and pimp to its audience. I am all for strong, sexy chicks killing some "bad guys", unfortunately this is a cliche of a cliche that goes so far as to be truly gross.
It is my general experience in life that more women then men take note and are offended by media stereotypes of their respective sexes.
Maybe because they're more vocal about it? Remember, we're men; we don't have feelings. We're stoic fortresses of vascular steel.
No griping about the male characters? I most certainly have and do, Pete. I only brought up Bayonetta because the character made me feel ill.
I've only ever really heard you grip significantly about portrayals of females in video games, at least in the context of "this makes me ill." If it's a gripe about a male, it's usually more like, "This archetype is overused" or "that's too ridiculous to be believable" or so forth. That's my perception on the way that you vocalize your thoughts about those stereotypes.
Also, I have to wonder what the problem is with Bayonetta; I looked at the character design, and it's a hell of a lot more realistic than most representations of females in video games. I think that most fighting games are an order of magnitude worse in that regard. Her costume is certainly ridiculous, but her body structure isn't unbelievable. Actually, I'm surprised her boobs aren't bigger.
The problem is with finding appeal in these stereotypes and not in material that doesn't pander to their audience by utilizing them.
Well, the appeal of a stereotype is a universal problem. It's a lot easier for people to believe a stereotype than to actually interact with another human being. I'm not saying it's an invalid gripe, just the oldest of gripes.
It bothers me immensely when men buy into the male stereotypes too. The over-macho muscle-bound competitive male is...tiring.
It is funny that you say that, Pete, yet you (whether genuinely or not) seem to glory in the machismo and primal grunting of viking and metal stereotypes. :P My problem isn't only with her costume, it is with her ridiculous weapons. Seriously, stiletto pistols? WTF? You might as well have her wearing pearls and heels while she vacuums the bad guys to death. As for griping about male characters, I was recently disgusted by the recent(ish) Mercenaries game and their male characters. Adam can confirm that I asked him not to play it in my presence because I find it truly disgusting.
My problem isn't only with her costume, it is with her ridiculous weapons. Seriously, stiletto pistols? WTF? You might as well have her wearing pearls and heels while she vacuums the bad guys to death.
Personally, I think the character design is idiotic, and the costume is pretty hideous. Though, I don't get a "housekeeper" type vibe from her so much as a "sexy nun" vibe. And the "sexy nun" vibe always creeps me right the fuck out.
As for griping about male characters, I was recently disgusted by the recent(ish) Mercenaries game and their male characters. Adam can confirm that I asked him not to play it in my presence because I find it truly disgusting.
I suppose Mercenaries is bad, but you should take a look at Army of Two. You may actually vomit on the spot.
It is funny that you say that, Pete, yet you (whether genuinely or not) seem to glory in the machismo and primal grunting of viking and metal stereotypes.
If we're going to cross into other media, Then please explain how "Sex in the City" isn't sexist, when if you changed the main characters and supporting characters to the opposite genders, and kept the plots identical as possible, it would be a source of outrage and decried as "Chavinist propaganda", yet because the characters are female, It's empowering and good?
I suppose Mercenaries is bad, but you should take a look at Army of Two. You may actually vomit on the spot.
Ludicrous violence + Overdoses of testosterone + bromance = Army of Two
I am finally running Windows again! I got an educational copy of Windows 7 and bootcamp'd it into my macbook. First thing I did was install Steam. Second thing was install NS. Third thing was install THIS.
EDIT: Now that I have Windows again, what games are people playing? I heard some good things about Left4Dead 2. Any good strategy/shooter/rpg/etc games come out in the last year or so?
It is funny that you say that, Pete, yet you (whether genuinely or not) seem to glory in the machismo and primal grunting of viking and metal stereotypes.
If we're going to cross into other media, Then please explain how "Sex in the City" isn't sexist, when if you changed the main characters and supporting characters to the opposite genders, and kept the plots identical as possible, it would be a source of outrage and decried as "Chavinist propaganda", yet because the characters are female, It's empowering and good?
QFT. Unless Kate thinks "Sex in the City" is sexist, then this point is absolutely correct. We are in a society where I find that females are just as perverted as males, and yet males acting in a typical perverted manner is looked upon as chauvinistic, and they are told that they should respect the females more, and the opposite is never done for females. We are in a society that is fulfilled with overly idealized media. I mean, deep down, I am offended on some level by Duke Nukem or Marcus Fenix. I mean, I'm a short, scrawny, brainy kid who could never lift a gun half my size. The fact that a character similar to me is not idealized in most popular media does bother me on a certain level. But past that, I recognize it as entertainment, and that media is about ideals. The creators make the game to MAKE MONEY. You may say that this is not a good excuse to reinforce stereotypes, but since when is it the job of video game creators/TV producers/movie directors to correct society? Society isn't going to change, media has always been filled with the ideal character of the times. Female characters have evolved from being perfect wives to being hyper-attractive, buttkicking, take-no-prisoner assassins.
If you don't want to further these stereotypes, then good on you. That is an excellent goal. You're allowed to find it disgusting. But you should attack it from all angles, as I hardly ever see you criticizing someone like, I dunno...Link, from Zelda? Or how about Spike from Cowboy Bebop? Any character that is cool, and legendary, and extraordinary embodies the same kinds of problems you have with Bayonetta, but that's just not how you choose to look at it. Should I hate Spike because he is suave, attractive (in some way, I suppose Link fits that bill more), kicks butt, and is infinitely cooler than me? Not that Bayonetta is cooler than you or that you're jealous, but just because she embodies something you're not, it doesn't mean that you have to endlessly criticize it.
Tl;dr version: Characters will always be created as the ideals of the time, you can fight against it, but the fight is fruitless and your energy could be much better spent.
Unless Kate thinks "Sex in the City" is sexist, then this point is absolutely correct.
Well, I wasn't clear - I didn't mean specifically by Kate, more by people at large. For all I know, she does find SITC Sexist.
Tl;dr version: Characters will always be created as the ideals of the time, you can fight against it, but the fight is fruitless and your energy could be much better spent.
Also, consider this - one of the most accurate portrayals of a man in videogaming is Larry Laffer. He's shlubby, kinda clueless and hopeless, and in all respects average, as opposed to Rico Suave combined with Fabio and a pair of pistols, or some hulking brick shithouse of a dude who eats steroid-filled wrestlers and linebackers for breakfast, wielding a BFG like a pistol.
Also, consider this - one of the most accurate portrayals of a man in videogaming isLarry Laffer.He's shlubby, kinda clueless and hopeless, and in all respects average, as opposed to Rico Suave combined with Fabio and a pair of pistols, or some hulking brick shithouse of a dude who eats steroid-filled wrestlers and linebackers for breakfast, wielding a BFG like a pistol.
Yeah. Characters like the ones I described are just as much eye candy as Bayonetta. A girl crushing on one of those male characters is viewed as okay, a la Edward Cullen, whereas enjoying a character like Bayonetta is obsessive or perverse.
Doomguy is the most accurate representation of men in videogames. I too would duel-wield chainguns through Hell to save my bunny, as I am both sensitive and a powerhouse of righteous fury.
That is a whole other discussion, but suffice it to say, No, crushing on Edward Cullen is really, really not okay.
It is a different discussion, albeit related to this one. The situation Kate has with Bayonetta is the same as ours with Edward Cullen. Not that Kate doesn't argue against Edward Cullen, but I don't think she realizes the extent to which all of this, well, extends.
The situation Kate has with Bayonetta is the same as ours with Edward Cullen.
No, it's not.
Well, it's the same as the problem I have with Edward Cullen, which does seem to be different than most on these forums. I dislike him for being a stereotype created to appeal in every way to females. I will admit that he is a creepy stalker, though.
Well, it's the same as the problem I have with Edward Cullen, which does seem to be different than most on these forums. I dislike him for being a stereotype created to appeal in every way to females. I will admit that he is a creepy stalker, though.
And what stereotype would that be? The girly, emo, stalker man who glitters stereotype? That's a new one to me.
Well, it's the same as the problem I have with Edward Cullen, which does seem to be different than most on these forums. I dislike him for being a stereotype created to appeal in every way to females. I will admit that he is a creepy stalker, though.
And what stereotype would that be? The girly, emo, stalker man who glitters stereotype? That's a new one to me.
Okay, I lied, he's a stereotype amalgamation. He's your typical superhero boyfriend, saving his defenseless girlfriend from evil. He's also a human bishounen (bishie, if you will), the brooding loner boyfriend who only likes his girlfriend...And the fact that he's a vampire is a cliche in and of itself.
Yeah, he's not really a stereotype. He's just an appalling ideal that young girls are fixated by. I mean, it's completely unhealthy that young women want to be watched while they sleep because it's "romantic," or "tested" by having their boyfriend break their heart to make sure they're "strong," or, y'know, having the guy punch them out and then rape them during sex.
Yes, and he proceeds to beat the shit out of her and finish before she comes to...and she takes it.
I thought the whole point was that they didn't have sex. Which book does this happen in? I'm sure I can download a PDF or something. I want to see this.
Yes, and he proceeds to beat the shit out of her and finish before she comes to...and she takes it.
It should be noted that this leads to them having a baby which Jacob, the werewolf, falls in love with at first sight. Yes, Twilight has a werewolf falling in love with a baby.
Okay, I lied, he's a stereotype amalgamation. He's your typical superhero boyfriend, saving his defenseless girlfriend from evil. He's also a human bishounen (bishie, if you will), the brooding loner boyfriend who only likes his girlfriend...And the fact that he's a vampire is a cliche in and of itself.
Those aren't stereotypes. Those are literary archetypes.
I thought the whole point was that they didn't have sex. Which book does this happen in? I'm sure I can download a PDF or something. I want to see this.
Comments
I am all for strong, sexy chicks killing some "bad guys", unfortunately this is a cliche of a cliche that goes so far as to be truly gross.
Also, I have to wonder what the problem is with Bayonetta; I looked at the character design, and it's a hell of a lot more realistic than most representations of females in video games. I think that most fighting games are an order of magnitude worse in that regard. Her costume is certainly ridiculous, but her body structure isn't unbelievable. Actually, I'm surprised her boobs aren't bigger. Well, the appeal of a stereotype is a universal problem. It's a lot easier for people to believe a stereotype than to actually interact with another human being. I'm not saying it's an invalid gripe, just the oldest of gripes.
It bothers me immensely when men buy into the male stereotypes too. The over-macho muscle-bound competitive male is...tiring.
My problem isn't only with her costume, it is with her ridiculous weapons. Seriously, stiletto pistols? WTF? You might as well have her wearing pearls and heels while she vacuums the bad guys to death.
As for griping about male characters, I was recently disgusted by the recent(ish) Mercenaries game and their male characters. Adam can confirm that I asked him not to play it in my presence because I find it truly disgusting.
EDIT: Now that I have Windows again, what games are people playing? I heard some good things about Left4Dead 2. Any good strategy/shooter/rpg/etc games come out in the last year or so?
We are in a society where I find that females are just as perverted as males, and yet males acting in a typical perverted manner is looked upon as chauvinistic, and they are told that they should respect the females more, and the opposite is never done for females. We are in a society that is fulfilled with overly idealized media. I mean, deep down, I am offended on some level by Duke Nukem or Marcus Fenix. I mean, I'm a short, scrawny, brainy kid who could never lift a gun half my size. The fact that a character similar to me is not idealized in most popular media does bother me on a certain level. But past that, I recognize it as entertainment, and that media is about ideals. The creators make the game to MAKE MONEY. You may say that this is not a good excuse to reinforce stereotypes, but since when is it the job of video game creators/TV producers/movie directors to correct society? Society isn't going to change, media has always been filled with the ideal character of the times. Female characters have evolved from being perfect wives to being hyper-attractive, buttkicking, take-no-prisoner assassins.
If you don't want to further these stereotypes, then good on you. That is an excellent goal. You're allowed to find it disgusting. But you should attack it from all angles, as I hardly ever see you criticizing someone like, I dunno...Link, from Zelda? Or how about Spike from Cowboy Bebop? Any character that is cool, and legendary, and extraordinary embodies the same kinds of problems you have with Bayonetta, but that's just not how you choose to look at it. Should I hate Spike because he is suave, attractive (in some way, I suppose Link fits that bill more), kicks butt, and is infinitely cooler than me? Not that Bayonetta is cooler than you or that you're jealous, but just because she embodies something you're not, it doesn't mean that you have to endlessly criticize it.
Tl;dr version: Characters will always be created as the ideals of the time, you can fight against it, but the fight is fruitless and your energy could be much better spent.
/shudder
I hate those books so much.
Well, just when I thought it couldn't get any worse, they do it.