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    Oh crap, that's Meepo in there. He splits himself into four but they're not illusions so you have to micro all of them as killing one kills all of them.
  • edited July 2013
    Actually, if you look closely at the buffrow you see that he activated ghost scepter in the end, so still pretty good dunk.
    I noticed. It's not how you dunk though. Eblade + scepter for glorious dunks. The ghost scepter was just used defensively so Storm couldn't right-click back and Blade Fury doesn't deal damage fast enough to kill him on the gif.
    What item should I buy that I can use to escape death?
    There's none. The items mentioned can prolong your life, but that's only going to be the case if you use them proper.
    What is the deal with ghost scepter? I've tried to use it, but it doesn't work as advertised.
    Ghost Scepter works EXACTLY as advertised, you just didn't fucking read the ad at all! It doesn't say it makes you untargetable. It clearly states you take a lot of extra magic damage. Even the fucking flavour text clarifies its function for fuck's sake. If you don't know how an item works, look it up in the library before or after the game. It's the exact same dialogue box to boot!
    Post edited by Not nine on
  • A commentary I've always had about the MOBA community is that the vast majority of people can't see the forest for the trees. They dwell on counter picks and the meta game and all the other popularized high level heuristics. They often skip first-order heuristics like "working together on a single strategy is usually more effective than working on five simultaneous divergent strategies" and "communication helps."

    This is obviously just a point at the lower level and for public play, but fuck if that isn't 90% of the people playing.
  • edited July 2013
    A little further back the subject of hard counters came up. I think it is not as much of a big deal in captains draft but I think that it still not that good in the other modes. Having a strategy helps but but dammit if I do not have people helping me against a good pudge as a squishy. Early level dota is really messy. I second the 90% lower public play comment.
    Post edited by folytopo on
  • DOTA is so much like Bridge it's almost sickening.
  • edited July 2013
    So today I randomed into the Tinker. The extra gold from randoming helped a ton as I started with a bottle. Whoever made that build gave really easy to follow instructions. Q followed by W = killing. This dude had the cheap impossible to doge long range attacks that have plagued me. And they actually worked on other people. I got mad early kills and was strongest on my team. Yeah, the secret to getting levels way ahead of everyone else is just to get kills early and often.

    The thing is the late game was a mess. I mean, if I'm the best player on the team, you know something is wrong. Part of the reason I was best was because I was solo-ing top getting extra XP. My teammates were even worse than I was, and we lost even though I personally did well for once.

    So I played again choosing Tinker. No bonus gold for randoming really made a big difference. Anyway, this opposing team was better, and my Q/W trick didn't get early kills like before. However, a friend taught me the trick of the late game where you use the march, then the reset, then the march, then the magic boots, then the reset, and repeat.

    I fucked it up at first. I didn't realize the reset you have to stand still, so I kept accidentally canceling it and screwing myself over. When I finally got the hang of it, it worked ok. I booted to empty lanes, pushed, and booted back to base. On a good team this may have really pressured the enemy. On our team, it just delayed the inevitable. I was worst on the team this time. Any time I made even one mistake and went near the enemies, I was dead. Even if our entire team was there, it didn't help. My combo attacks did so little damage.

    Played one more game where I randomed into axe. What a creative name! The instructions in the guide said to just go out there and chop with gusto. It claimed I had HP regen and defense, so I should just get in there and not give a shit. That was sort of true. Maybe 10% of the time I could jump in there and chop a guy up. Most of the time I had to run away and let the HP regen do its thing. I did manage to run away several times with almost no HP left. We actually had some teamwork going on, and for awhile we were slightly ahead. Then the other team overtook us and we got steamrolled.

    The major problem with the axe guy and the tinker that I see are that they are really good against creeps, but not so good against heros. At least Tinker is good against heros in the early game, but not the late game.

    But being good against creeps doesn't help you. All it does is give you a bunch of last hits by blowing away creeps. You could get those last hits with skill, so devoting mana or XP to getting more last hits is just setting you back. Only abilities that nail other heros are really worthwhile, since that is the only way to get ahead.

    One more thing. There are some annoying interactions between teammates abilities. The one I noticed was when I was AXE. My teammate did the attack that surrounded an enemy with trees. Great. But now I can't get in there to chop him up while he's stuck. If I chop a tree down, they can get out. Those two characters are the opposite of complementary, so putting them on the same team or same lane sort of fucks you. I feel like every ability should be crafted such that it always works well with your teammates and works poorly for the enemy. Friendly units should be able to pass through those trees.

    Oh, I also played as omni knight, like I said I would. He has a lot of stuff that seems great on paper, but does not work in reality. I would greatly increase the damage radius on the Q healing spell. The W magic immunity spell didn't work even once. I cast it on people and then watched them die. I cast it on myself and died. The ultimate had similar issues, where I cast it and people died anyway. I even cast both on myself at once and died! What kind of damage is there besides physical and magical? And his aura was really bad. You have to get so close, and his hammer is so weak. The aura ends up being meaningless. If you go in close enough for it to have an effect, you are putting yourself out there to die.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Random pointless fact - Axe is one of the characters voiced by John St John. Kunnka, Enigma and Bloodseeker are also his work.
  • So today I randomed into the Tinker. The extra gold from randoming helped a ton as I started with a bottle. Whoever made that build gave really easy to follow instructions. Q followed by W = killing. This dude had the cheap impossible to doge long range attacks that have plagued me. And they actually worked on other people. I got mad early kills and was strongest on my team. Yeah, the secret to getting levels way ahead of everyone else is just to get kills early and often.

    The thing is the late game was a mess. I mean, if I'm the best player on the team, you know something is wrong. Part of the reason I was best was because I was solo-ing top getting extra XP. My teammates were even worse than I was, and we lost even though I personally did well for once.

    So I played again choosing Tinker. No bonus gold for randoming really made a big difference. Anyway, this opposing team was better, and my Q/W trick didn't get early kills like before. However, a friend taught me the trick of the late game where you use the march, then the reset, then the march, then the magic boots, then the reset, and repeat.

    I fucked it up at first. I didn't realize the reset you have to stand still, so I kept accidentally canceling it and screwing myself over. When I finally got the hang of it, it worked ok. I booted to empty lanes, pushed, and booted back to base. On a good team this may have really pressured the enemy. On our team, it just delayed the inevitable. I was worst on the team this time. Any time I made even one mistake and went near the enemies, I was dead. Even if our entire team was there, it didn't help. My combo attacks did so little damage.
    Yes, Tinker is great and fun hero to play. He excels in two roles, because of his early game burst damage he is great ganker, that's the guy who appears from behind a tree and kills you before you have time to do anything. He is also a great pusher later in the game Boots of Travel and Rearm make him extremely mobile while March of Machines eat up the creep waves.
    Played one more game where I randomed into Axe. What a creative name! The instructions in the guide said to just go out there and chop with gusto. It claimed I had HP regen and defense, so I should just get in there and not give a shit. That was sort of true. Maybe 10% of the time I could jump in there and chop a guy up. Most of the time I had to run away and let the HP regen do its thing. I did manage to run away several times with almost no HP left. We actually had some teamwork going on, and for awhile we were slightly ahead. Then the other team overtook us and we got steamrolled.
    If I remember correctly the most popular Axe guide is not the greatest in my opinion. Those are community made and reviewed so they are not all top quality. Axe is an tanky initiator. He should stuff himself full of strength and then get in the middle of the enemy group and use taunt to keep them busy while his team cleans the place.
    The major problem with the axe guy and the tinker that I see are that they are really good against creeps, but not so good against heros. At least Tinker is good against heros in the early game, but not the late game.

    But being good against creeps doesn't help you. All it does is give you a bunch of last hits by blowing away creeps. You could get those last hits with skill, so devoting mana or XP to getting more last hits is just setting you back. Only abilities that nail other heros are really worthwhile, since that is the only way to get ahead.
    This is not true at all. In the end of the day, it's not a deathmatch, it's a game where you take down enemy's towers and in the end their ancient. And unless you have some ridiculously strong heroes, you are not taking down those towers without the help of your creeps. Ability to effectively kill large amounts of creeps can hinder or halt enemy's push towards your base and can help your push towards the enemy. Creeps might feel weak and useless, but they are not, they are the little suicidal keys to victory.
    One more thing. There are some annoying interactions between teammates abilities. The one I noticed was when I was AXE. My teammate did the attack that surrounded an enemy with trees. Great. But now I can't get in there to chop him up while he's stuck. If I chop a tree down, they can get out. Those two characters are the opposite of complementary, so putting them on the same team or same lane sort of fucks you. I feel like every ability should be crafted such that it always works well with your teammates and works poorly for the enemy. Friendly units should be able to pass through those trees.
    That's called teamwork. Or team-not-working, whatever. There are many abilities in Dota that can be used to fuck teammate with and Nature's Prophet's trees are one of the lamer ones. One should not consider only themselves when using abilities like this, but also their teammates and I think it's fine.
    Oh, I also played as omni knight, like I said I would. He has a lot of stuff that seems great on paper, but does not work in reality. I would greatly increase the damage radius on the Q healing spell. The W magic immunity spell didn't work even once. I cast it on people and then watched them die. I cast it on myself and died. The ultimate had similar issues, where I cast it and people died anyway. I even cast both on myself at once and died! What kind of damage is there besides physical and magical? And his aura was really bad. You have to get so close, and his hammer is so weak. The aura ends up being meaningless. If you go in close enough for it to have an effect, you are putting yourself out there to die.
    I'm pretty sure I said something about how I dislike Omni Knight.

    Scott is too lazy to look things up himself, the link.

  • edited July 2013
    Ok, here's something that pisses me off.

    Here is the text in the game for Omni Knight Repel.

    "Creates a powerful divine ward that blocks most magic from affecting a target unit."

    Here is the text on the wiki.

    "Repel removes all purgeable buffs and debuffs from the target when cast.
    Unlike Magic Immunity from Black King Bar, Repel can be Purged.
    Can be cast on enemy units as well as allies.
    Magic Immunity doesn't prevent effects of most ultimates, except magical damage."

    SECRET/HIDDEN RULES ARE THE BIGGEST BULLSHIT OF ALL IN ANY GAME EVER

    If your only official instruction manual is tooltips, they better be fucking 100% complete and accurate. I'm thinking that if I cast the guardian angel and the repel at the same time, I'll be nearly invincible and I can run away. NOPE. Pretty much all ultimates still fuck you. Sooo, pretty useless right there since when you are getting attacked everyone is using pretty much nothing but ultimates. I would rather have invulnerability from ultimates and vulnerability to everything else. If the only way to know the rules of your game is an unofficial fan-made wiki, you are literally made of fail.

    Imagine if there was a Netrunner card that said "Pay 1 credit to break most ICE subroutines" or a M:TG card that said "trashes an artifact, with a few exceptions."
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • Oh yea, there is one thing that I don't think anyone has told you and which is not expressed in the game very well, but if you hold down alt, the tooltips sometimes (often) give additional details.
  • edited July 2013
    Oh yea, there is one thing that I don't think anyone has told you and which is not expressed in the game very well, but if you hold down alt, the tooltips sometimes (often) give additional details.
    &(*^%#*(&^@#)%&;^#@!$%

    Should be fucking first thing the tutorial tells you.

    Would you ever teach someone a board game and intentionally leave out rules? No. You teach every rule and then you play. Sure, if it's a card game or some such, you might not learn all the cards (heros). But whenever you encounter a card by drawing it or having an opponent play it, you learn all the rules at that moment simply by reading the card. Reading all the cards ahead of time is silly, and you won't remember them anyway. But in DotA you don't have time to read every hero's ability before the game starts, or during it. Experiencing their ability on screen doesn't tell you everything. And even if you do get a chance to read the alt text it doesn't necessarily tell you everything.
    Post edited by Apreche on
  • You don't have to be able to kill heroes to be effective. It all depends on your role. If you are a support player you don't need any kills, just buy wards and help your carry lane.

    Likewise, if you are someone like tinker, the omnipresent pushing ability is very strong even if you can't kill anymore. If makes it much harder for the other team to push when all their lanes are near their base. Tinker is still very good late game when you have a large mana pool and get sheepstick (guinsoo staff). You can permanently disable any hero.

    As for the tooltip problem, I kind of agree but you can't fit every detail into the tooltips. It would be overwhelming to the player if every minutia is present.
  • You don't have to be able to kill heroes to be effective. It all depends on your role. If you are a support player you don't need any kills, just buy wards and help your carry lane.

    Likewise, if you are someone like tinker, the omnipresent pushing ability is very strong even if you can't kill anymore. If makes it much harder for the other team to push when all their lanes are near their base. Tinker is still very good late game when you have a large mana pool and get sheepstick (guinsoo staff). You can permanently disable any hero.

    As for the tooltip problem, I kind of agree but you can't fit every detail into the tooltips. It would be overwhelming to the player if every minutia is present.
    Huh, maybe the tutorial should tell you a bit more.
  • edited July 2013
    Think about it like Dragon Age on hard mode.

    Another thing, remember when you guys talked about the special powers in that Dune board game? How everyone has an ultimate Fuck You move? Dota is the same way. Every character has a million different Fuck You tactics. Some are obvious (big damage attacks) some are less obvious (the North Korean Orbily Clickwaggle). Your job as a Carry is to test your Fuck You tactics against theirs. Carries have Supports behind them; they're like the healers, engineers, and scouts from TF2. Their job is to keep an eye out for ambushes, heal the Carries, and create defenses.

    The easiest way to beat nubs is to learn about the teamwork that happens between carries and supports. It makes the game much more sensible.
    Post edited by Walker on
  • Just played a little DOTA 2 to see what it was like. Tutorials (annoying) and then bot match. Randomed Meepo. Earned more than twice as much gold as my teamates and cc'd a lot of stuff to help people get kills. I don't like how "big" all the graphics are and how many frames go into an attack animation and such. Visually, I think I'm more comfortable with LoL so far.
  • I hate LoL's visuals. They're very muddy and all the silhouettes are super similar.
  • The beta is officially over:
    http://www.dota2.com/thebetaisover
    I can predict this weeks update. "No new heroes, we are too busy to get out of beta."

  • Holy shit that server room is so fucking pretty.
  • Server room doesn't help much. Tried to find a match. Waited 5 minutes, went to the couch to wait for the sound. 20 minutes later, nothing. Giving up.
  • Server room doesn't help much. Tried to find a match. Waited 5 minutes, went to the couch to wait for the sound. 20 minutes later, nothing. Giving up.
    There might have been something wrong with the servers when you started queuing. I stared around same time, waited for about 5 minutes, canceled, restarted Dota and tried again and got match in normal time.
  • The servers were constantly down yesterday, so that might be the reason.
  • The servers were constantly down yesterday, so that might be the reason.
    What about that photo of the giant data center?

    Well, I guess we get what we pay for.
  • edited July 2013
    Pictures of one aisle of servers = giant data center. Preachy confirmed! Disregard that almost all servers are run by Valve and the peak user count today is 10 times more than the most popular CS version's peak user count today. 335,335 versus 32,043.
    &(*^%#*(&^@#)%&;^#@!$%

    Should be fucking first thing the tutorial tells you.
    Are you goddamned retarded? Don't answer, after seeing your Omniknight play I know the answer. Beginner tutorials teach the basics for beginners, not the intricate details of every single fucking possible thing ever. That's exactly the reason why some of the detailed information for some abilities are condescend like that. Because you don't need to fucking know every single god damned passive that Doom disables or doesn't. You don't need to know that Repel can be purged by one of the six, 6, fucking purges in the game. One of those isn't in the game yet. One of those is from a jungle creep that almost never gets picked up. Two of them being ultimates. One being a 3300 gold item. And the last requiring you to CAST A TARGETED ABILITY ON THAT PARTICULAR ENEMY TO GET PURGED, AND GUESS WHO YOU DO NOT CAST REPEL ON TO BEGIN WITH. Spoilers: The enemy, usually.

    Every single fucking post you've made in this thread is leaking from the sides with ignorance and yet you keep posting with this air of superiority and authority while falling lightyears short of actually coming off serious doing so. You draw conclusions after one single fucking game even though you demonstrated in that one game to have absolutely 0 sense whatsoever. Alchemist at 80% health? Better burn all of your mana healing him! Creeps attacking you behind your own T1 tower with no enemy in sight? Better blow your ultimate so you take 20 points less damage! Alchemist being attacked? Better not heal or repel him so he survives the fight! Teammate half a screen away getting ganked? Better keep wandering aimlessly between the bottom tier 1 and tier 2 towers with the creeps instead of saving him with all your defensive spells. You are the worst of the worst kind of players. You have no experience, no knowledge, but you act like you're fucking MLG material. The first two you can improve with time and practice, the last one is just you being an arrogant dickbag with the most unflattering egos I've come across and sadly that one is still getting worse as time goes on.

    My honest advice to you? Stop playing the game. Just go back to NS2, CS:GO, go have fun. You have already made up your mind. You appear to not actually wanna learn a single thing. And you don't seem to actually enjoy playing games to begin with. So just stop playing the game, or just stop your current mindset because it's actively causing you to waste your time.
    I can predict this weeks update. "No new heroes, we are too busy to get out of beta."
    Too late. Lord of Avernus baby!

    Post edited by Not nine on
  • I can predict this weeks update. "No new heroes, we are too busy to get out of beta."
    Too late. Lord of Avernus baby!
    For once I'm happy to be wrong. More supports for me to support with is always a nice thing.

  • More supports for me to support with is always a nice thing.
    Not semi-carrying? What are you? A beta player?
  • mid tank Omni support ganks yo
  • Not sure if it's the matchmaking or just luck that any time I win a game, the next game I get put on a semi-organized team where I am clearly the worst person. If it is, dear game matchmaking: The reason I do alright and win is because I know the heroes, items, spells, and basics. I do not have any idea how you're "supposed" to play beyond that. It's my fifth game ever. I am not ready or interested in serious games.
  • Not sure if it's the matchmaking or just luck that any time I win a game, the next game I get put on a semi-organized team where I am clearly the worst person. If it is, dear game matchmaking: The reason I do alright and win is because I know the heroes, items, spells, and basics. I do not have any idea how you're "supposed" to play beyond that. It's my fifth game ever. I am not ready or interested in serious games.
    I play on solo queue just so there woudn't be parties, on my side, or the enemies. The waiting times are longer, especially after the latest patch when solo queue was turned into menu option, but at least I can be sure that I'm not against 5 man stack.

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