I'm always upset when I see these people who really don't care that much about PAX or gaming are getting badges and giving them up, and such. I always imagine this died in the wool PAXer not getting to go and some bum showing up Saturday only, poking the Expo Hall for a couple hours, and then leaving.
I wish we could devise some sort of system where the harder core people get priority on hotels and badges. Maybe you could register on the PAX site and have an account. Then you would get points for various things like attending a PAX, Enforcing, Omeganauting, winning a PAX tournament, etc. Then roll out the registrations from the people with the highest number of points on downwards. 20+ point people can register today. 15+ point people next week.
It might even reduce scalping or counterfeiting since those people would have very few points and wouldn't be able to get a badge as easily since hardcore people are very unlikely to give them up.
How about no? That will wind up creating an incredibly insular community. What about getting new people into the PAX experience?
Trust me, nothing would kill PAX faster than turning it into a massive circle-jerk. Moreso than any convention with a strong community already is.
HOWEVER, I think some kind of "level" system would be a neat way to find categories of PAXers. So maybe we keep your point system. Then, you know that if you see someone with 25+ points, they're a hardcore PAXer. Maybe you try to play games with them. Or you throw out a message like "looking for 15+ point PAXers for a game of [blah]." Or "looking for people with fewer than 3 points to try a new game."
You've said many times "If there is any possibility that you can go then buy a badge now before they sell out and sell it later if you can't." He probably bought while there was uncertainty on his calendar, and then that uncertainty was cleared up to a "no."
As for it staying on Easter weekend, it won't. They don't want to get in a turf war with AB. They've said the only reason they put it on this date this year is because there were scheduling conflicts with the BCEC every other weekend for the 2 months surrounding it.
Well, PAX will have to do something. There will come a day where all badges sell out the same day they go live. At that point, you have to cull the herd or risk other kinds of problems. ;^)
As for it staying on Easter weekend, it won't. They don't want to get in a turf war with AB. They've said the only reason they put it on this date this year is because there were scheduling conflicts with the BCEC every other weekend for the 2 months surrounding it.
The cons are trying to work together the best they can, but PAX isn't actually affected by AB's schedule.
PAX will sell out no matter what, so there could never be a badge share with PAX and no date they choose will ever reduce PAX attendance. Easter weekend is probably the best possible weekend for PAX, as the holiday on Monday both reduces the number of people who can attend (reducing badge contention) and allows more people to come without spending another vacation day. They do the same thing whenever they can with Labor Day for PAX Prime.
I actually like the idea that both are happening at the same time, it allows me to check out another convention that I would otherwise not attend. Also if they cater to the curious PAXers kindly there would be a good chance some of them may go again even when PAX isn't in town.
I actually like the idea that both are happening at the same time, it allows me to check out another convention that I would otherwise not attend. Also if they cater to the curious PAXers kindly there would be a good chance some of them may go again even when PAX isn't in town.
Exactly. AB people can't also attend PAX, as it will always sell out. But PAX people can also attend AB after-hours.
The hardcore people are already in the PAX forums and the PA site all the time. With first come first serve, 90%+ of them grab badges immediately. This kind of change would only help a very small percentage of people who had some financial or scheduling situation that prevented immediate badge purchasing. The increase in insularity would be an extremely small percentage compared to a first come first serve, which already prioritizes the hardcore. If you think that's a problem, you should be advocating a lottery system.
The other thing is that PAX is so big, and is getting bigger, that it can not be filled with just the hardcore people. There will always be plenty of badges for everyone else.
The hardcore people are already in the PAX forums and the PA site all the time. With first come first serve, 90%+ of them grab badges immediately. This kind of change would only help a very small percentage of people who had some financial or scheduling situation that prevented immediate badge purchasing. The increase in insularity would be an extremely small percentage compared to a first come first serve, which already prioritizes the hardcore. If you think that's a problem, you should be advocating a lottery system.
The other thing is that PAX is so big, and is getting bigger, that it can not be filled with just the hardcore people. There will always be plenty of badges for everyone else.
So, wait, then what's the problem for the hardcore people then? You'll still have the same problem with scheduling conflicts - a hardcore PAXer might not be able to grab a badge, they'll miss their preferred window, and the badges could still sell out. Flattening out the curve of badge purchasing doesn't really help anyone, unless you artificially extend the length of time that badges are available.
So maybe instead of "people with blah points can register today," you make badges available in packs of 100. That way, you spread out the sale of badges over a long period of time, so that people can make plans.
I don't understand how you think "PAX is so big, and getting bigger, that it can not be filled with just hardcore people." I'm pretty sure that the community will grow more hardcore with time. Eventually, you will have a population of hardcore PAXers who are larger than the actual capacity of the convention. What do you do then? What Rym said is dead on:
Well, PAX will have to do something. There will come a day where all badges sell out the same day they go live. At that point, you have to cull the herd or risk other kinds of problems. ;^)
There will come a point where the con will sell out because every single attendee is a hardcore PAXer. At that point, I'd advocate a lottery system. Or moving to a tiered pricing model.
When the number of hardcore PAXers exceeds the number of badges, and there is no more physical space, you do need some sort of lottery system. But perhaps you could give more lottery balls to those with more points. It would suck if someone who has been to every PAX missed one because of luck.
PAX will have this problem much sooner and to greater effect that most other fan conventions due to what I perceive to be (I have no substantial evidence as yet) a much higher retention rate on previous attendees.
Look at anime cons. They skew very young and fairly old, with a huge dropoff in the middle. New attendees come for a few years, but are less likely to keep returning as time goes on. There's a bump at the upper end due to the combination of the hardcore and former attendees returning with children.
I would postulate that the average PAX attendee is more likely to return each year than the average anime con attendee
Comic Con style events have a very different size problem in that they have a large number of one-day or transient attendees drawn from a large pop-culture pool. They could boot every single "hardcore" attendee and probably still sell out. In fact, I have it on good authority that certain of these cons actually try to minimize the amount of time each individual actually spends in the convention itself: day-passes are more money to them than weekend passes.
The biggest thing PAX should do is drop the idea of a single-day pass. Otakon dropped them to no real loss. I'd argue that the vast majority of single-day PAX badges are held by people who bought as many days as they could after missing out on a three-day badge. There is no reason to offer single-day badges.
Well, right now what I'm seeing is a problem amongst the first-time people. There are plenty of first-time PAX people on either coast that are actually very hardcore. They've just not had the means to make it to PAX before. You always see these people at Q&A and such. Then you have the guy who just runs around Expo Hall getting swag and hasn't read a single Penny Arcade comic.
Another idea is a PAX points system. You go to PAX, and you have to earn PAX points by doing things. Go to the concerts, get points. Play games, get points. If you don't score highly enough, you can't get a badge next time. Expo Hall swag guy won't score many points. Significant other who tags along and doesn't actually do anything won't score any points. Maybe people who get the highest scores just get automatic badges.
Also, more PAXes couldn't hurt. Even the hardest of the hardcore from West are starting to bail on East. Only the extreme badasses like us go to every PAX ever. If we add a Mid-West or South PAX it may fulfill the demand.
I have a level of faith in Penny Arcade that I put into very few things, but even I can't believe PAX will dodge the "all good things must come to an end" philosophy forever. I say just put your energy into loving the crap out of it while its good, not freaking out about how it might need to be fixed several years down the road.
I have a level of faith in Penny Arcade that I put into very few things, but even I can't believe PAX will dodge the "all good things must come to an end" philosophy forever. I say just put your energy into loving the crap out of it while its good, not freaking out about how it might need to be fixed several years down the road.
Obviously, but we're trying to figure out how to drag it out for as long as possible.
Comments
I wish we could devise some sort of system where the harder core people get priority on hotels and badges. Maybe you could register on the PAX site and have an account. Then you would get points for various things like attending a PAX, Enforcing, Omeganauting, winning a PAX tournament, etc. Then roll out the registrations from the people with the highest number of points on downwards. 20+ point people can register today. 15+ point people next week.
It might even reduce scalping or counterfeiting since those people would have very few points and wouldn't be able to get a badge as easily since hardcore people are very unlikely to give them up.
Trust me, nothing would kill PAX faster than turning it into a massive circle-jerk. Moreso than any convention with a strong community already is.
HOWEVER, I think some kind of "level" system would be a neat way to find categories of PAXers. So maybe we keep your point system. Then, you know that if you see someone with 25+ points, they're a hardcore PAXer. Maybe you try to play games with them. Or you throw out a message like "looking for 15+ point PAXers for a game of [blah]." Or "looking for people with fewer than 3 points to try a new game."
Put the level or points right on the badge.
As for it staying on Easter weekend, it won't. They don't want to get in a turf war with AB. They've said the only reason they put it on this date this year is because there were scheduling conflicts with the BCEC every other weekend for the 2 months surrounding it.
PAX will sell out no matter what, so there could never be a badge share with PAX and no date they choose will ever reduce PAX attendance. Easter weekend is probably the best possible weekend for PAX, as the holiday on Monday both reduces the number of people who can attend (reducing badge contention) and allows more people to come without spending another vacation day. They do the same thing whenever they can with Labor Day for PAX Prime.
The other thing is that PAX is so big, and is getting bigger, that it can not be filled with just the hardcore people. There will always be plenty of badges for everyone else.
So maybe instead of "people with blah points can register today," you make badges available in packs of 100. That way, you spread out the sale of badges over a long period of time, so that people can make plans.
I don't understand how you think "PAX is so big, and getting bigger, that it can not be filled with just hardcore people." I'm pretty sure that the community will grow more hardcore with time. Eventually, you will have a population of hardcore PAXers who are larger than the actual capacity of the convention. What do you do then? What Rym said is dead on: There will come a point where the con will sell out because every single attendee is a hardcore PAXer. At that point, I'd advocate a lottery system. Or moving to a tiered pricing model.
Look at anime cons. They skew very young and fairly old, with a huge dropoff in the middle. New attendees come for a few years, but are less likely to keep returning as time goes on. There's a bump at the upper end due to the combination of the hardcore and former attendees returning with children.
I would postulate that the average PAX attendee is more likely to return each year than the average anime con attendee
Comic Con style events have a very different size problem in that they have a large number of one-day or transient attendees drawn from a large pop-culture pool. They could boot every single "hardcore" attendee and probably still sell out. In fact, I have it on good authority that certain of these cons actually try to minimize the amount of time each individual actually spends in the convention itself: day-passes are more money to them than weekend passes.
The biggest thing PAX should do is drop the idea of a single-day pass. Otakon dropped them to no real loss. I'd argue that the vast majority of single-day PAX badges are held by people who bought as many days as they could after missing out on a three-day badge. There is no reason to offer single-day badges.
The real solution?
A third PAX. ;^)
More epic option: construct a temporary city to support PAX.
Another idea is a PAX points system. You go to PAX, and you have to earn PAX points by doing things. Go to the concerts, get points. Play games, get points. If you don't score highly enough, you can't get a badge next time. Expo Hall swag guy won't score many points. Significant other who tags along and doesn't actually do anything won't score any points. Maybe people who get the highest scores just get automatic badges.
Also, more PAXes couldn't hurt. Even the hardest of the hardcore from West are starting to bail on East. Only the extreme badasses like us go to every PAX ever. If we add a Mid-West or South PAX it may fulfill the demand.