This is the first time in 2+ years of listening that it hurt me to hear you guys talk about a game!
Play The Resistance. I know it has been suggested multiple times already in this thread. I know you are going to write it off as some knock-off of Mafia that people are charging money for. There are tons of shitty Mafia/Werewolf games out there, and The Resistance is not one of them. It is simply a better game than Mafia.
The Resistance is not Mafia/Werewolf. It is its own unique game that scratches the same "hidden roles w/ politics" itch that the Mafia/Werewolf genre established. I won't bother going into a long-winded rules explanation, though. You can do your own research.
But I will provide some evidence: you know what sucks more than anything else playing a game? When you get eliminated in turn 1 and have to sit around while everyone else plays. The Resistance has no player elimination and no moderator, meaning everyone gets to actually play the damn game. It's also tightly balanced for 5-10 players (have more? just play with 2 sets and double up everything).
The Resistance is a party game of social deduction. It is designed for five to ten players, lasts about 30 minutes, and has no player elimination. The Resistance is inspired by Mafia/Werewolf, yet it is unique in its core mechanics which increase the resources for informed decisions, intensify player interaction, and eliminate player elimination.
The Resistance is a very different game in a similar genre. The only similarity is the basic mechanic of secret and open votes coupled with some form of deduction.
I trust you, but I don't believe it's better than Mafia-likes, simply different and equally worthy of consideration. The way voting works and the primary means of deduction in The Resistance make it a completely different kind of game at its core. It can't replace Mafia-likes anymore than Puerto Rico replaces Tigris & Euphrates.
I like both Puerto Rico and T&E, because they are different flavors of Euro strategy and sometimes I'm more in the mood for one more than the other. The reason I'm so big on Resistance is that I have not once been in the mood for a round of Mafia since playing Resistance, even though they are quite different games under the social deduction umbrella.
My post was primarily just to make sure you hadn't written off Resistance, though. It's very easy to do since there are so many crappy versions of Werewolf and the like. You have considered it, and came to a different conclusion than myself, so I'll chalk it up to a "different strokes for different folks."
On the subject of elimination, it does sort of suck for someone who is eliminated immediately. But it also has a huge effect on the people who are still in, and on people who will play multiple rounds. It greatly dissuades certain sorts of behaviors that will get you eliminated early on. If you can't be eliminated, then all sorts of behavior that usually gets you killed right away becomes much more commonplace.
My post was primarily just to make sure you hadn't written off Resistance, though. It's very easy to do since there are so many crappy versions of Werewolf and the like. You have considered it, and came to a different conclusion than myself, so I'll chalk it up to a "different strokes for different folks."
It's an OK game, but it doesn't scratch the itch Mafia scratches. It's more like a deductive logic puzzle, and much easier for smart players to analyze or win by correctly playing arbitrarily.
Mafia minimizes the capacity for trivial deduction by forcing players to make a large number of uninformed decisions. The pushes the game heavily into the social/psychological side.
As for player elimination, this is actually key to Mafia being a party/social game. Eliminated players can now socialize freely apart from the current game until the next game begins, but also now have a context for conversation: the game itself. Meanwhile, engaged players have a directly contextual conversation within the confines of the game, simultaneously providing a spectacle for the unengaged.
As a game to get strangers integrated into a social scene or, to put it as a college RA would, "break the ice," it's brilliant, and player elimination is key to that aspect.
I'm starting to see more of where you're coming from. I've not really used these types of games as party games. We play Resistance almost every Wednesday night as a warmup for meatier gaming, so it's serving a different role there.
If I were not playing with all gamers, such as the college RA setting, yeah Mafia is a good choice. It's even a fairly popular playground game. I know people as young as junior high students who sit around playing Werewolf during recess. There's no denying it's good social lubricant.
I wouldn't call the deduction of Resistance trivial, though. In the first round or two, you're going to have a nice bunch uninformed decisions: - Who wants to be the leader to start out the game - Which players the leader decides to give special abilities to (plot cards). - Which players the leader decides to select for the team
All of them lead to a mountain of scrutiny for each individual involved, hinging on whether the leader is on your side or not (where his decisions informed or uninformed?). There is a lot more input to your deductions, but it's not a trivial task to figure out which side people are playing for.
On the subject of elimination, it does sort of suck for someone who is eliminated immediately. But it also has a huge effect on the people who are still in, and on people who will play multiple rounds. It greatly dissuades certain sorts of behaviors that will get you eliminated early on. If you can't be eliminated, then all sorts of behavior that usually gets you killed right away becomes much more commonplace.
You mean suspicious behavior like wearing a hat? :-P
On the subject of elimination, it does sort of suck for someone who is eliminated immediately. But it also has a huge effect on the people who are still in, and on people who will play multiple rounds. It greatly dissuades certain sorts of behaviors that will get you eliminated early on. If you can't be eliminated, then all sorts of behavior that usually gets you killed right away becomes much more commonplace.
You mean suspicious behavior like wearing a hat? :-P
Don't forget laughing, smirking, and turning red. All of which are clear indicators of guilt!
I merely exploited everyone's trust in the system to protect myself in the system. As long as everyone believes that the system works, it's a legal and viable move.
Has anyone done the math on the likelihood of the civilians losing/winning Mafia given 100% random decisions? I'd be happy to do it later if no one else has.
Until you gambled and claimed to be a Mason, when I was the last one. You fell into my trap.
I only lost because of charisma. You were able to emotionally make a case that was not logical. Obviously your maverick personality requires us to kill you first in game from now one, you are a loose cannon.
Has anyone done the math on the likelihood of the civilians losing/winning Mafia given 100% random decisions? I'd be happy to do it later if no one else has.
If you want me to do the math, specify the ruleset you want me to analyse.
Comments
Play The Resistance. I know it has been suggested multiple times already in this thread. I know you are going to write it off as some knock-off of Mafia that people are charging money for. There are tons of shitty Mafia/Werewolf games out there, and The Resistance is not one of them. It is simply a better game than Mafia.
The Resistance is not Mafia/Werewolf. It is its own unique game that scratches the same "hidden roles w/ politics" itch that the Mafia/Werewolf genre established. I won't bother going into a long-winded rules explanation, though. You can do your own research.
But I will provide some evidence: you know what sucks more than anything else playing a game? When you get eliminated in turn 1 and have to sit around while everyone else plays. The Resistance has no player elimination and no moderator, meaning everyone gets to actually play the damn game. It's also tightly balanced for 5-10 players (have more? just play with 2 sets and double up everything). You just have to trust me on this one.
I trust you, but I don't believe it's better than Mafia-likes, simply different and equally worthy of consideration. The way voting works and the primary means of deduction in The Resistance make it a completely different kind of game at its core. It can't replace Mafia-likes anymore than Puerto Rico replaces Tigris & Euphrates.
My post was primarily just to make sure you hadn't written off Resistance, though. It's very easy to do since there are so many crappy versions of Werewolf and the like. You have considered it, and came to a different conclusion than myself, so I'll chalk it up to a "different strokes for different folks."
Mafia minimizes the capacity for trivial deduction by forcing players to make a large number of uninformed decisions. The pushes the game heavily into the social/psychological side.
As for player elimination, this is actually key to Mafia being a party/social game. Eliminated players can now socialize freely apart from the current game until the next game begins, but also now have a context for conversation: the game itself. Meanwhile, engaged players have a directly contextual conversation within the confines of the game, simultaneously providing a spectacle for the unengaged.
As a game to get strangers integrated into a social scene or, to put it as a college RA would, "break the ice," it's brilliant, and player elimination is key to that aspect.
If I were not playing with all gamers, such as the college RA setting, yeah Mafia is a good choice. It's even a fairly popular playground game. I know people as young as junior high students who sit around playing Werewolf during recess. There's no denying it's good social lubricant.
I wouldn't call the deduction of Resistance trivial, though. In the first round or two, you're going to have a nice bunch uninformed decisions:
- Who wants to be the leader to start out the game
- Which players the leader decides to give special abilities to (plot cards).
- Which players the leader decides to select for the team
All of them lead to a mountain of scrutiny for each individual involved, hinging on whether the leader is on your side or not (where his decisions informed or uninformed?). There is a lot more input to your deductions, but it's not a trivial task to figure out which side people are playing for.
Not talking also means you're guilty.
truely if I survive to the fourth round you should just kill me.. because if I wasn't the mafia I would be dead already.
I'd be happy to do it later if no one else has.
Next time we should always eliminate Andrew first, and keep Ro as our mafia psychic. And keep me, because I'm not the mafia.