Hang in there. Give it a week or two to simmer down, and then you can slowly broach the topic with polite rationale for your beliefs. Tell them to read "The God Delusion," with the understanding that you want to honestly discuss it with them and with an open mind. Play it as though you're not 100% sure, and that you want them to convince you.
That's the best place to start. Make them think that they can talk you down, and use that as subtle leverage to get them to talk to you about it without the overcharged emotion they have now. Use the book as the basis for the discussion, and make them believe that you earnestly want discourse with them about it. If they ask you to read something like the Bible in return, do it (you'll have plenty to argue against if they do, and it will only hurt their cause in the long run).
This may work, but most likely, it won't. Give it an honest try, though, if you want to try to salvage your relationship with your parents.
The alternative, and this is very difficult (but perhaps necessary), is to remove yourself from your parents. If they can't love you for who you are, then they're not worth your time. Make a new family in college and leave the old behind. It can be a hard thing to do, but it may be necessary.
And remember, you've got a goodly number of people around here to talk to for support.
Hang in there. Give it a week or two to simmer down, and then you can slowly broach the topic with polite rationale for your beliefs. Tell them to read "The God Delusion," with the understanding that you want to honestly discuss it with them and with an open mind. Play it as though you're not 100% sure, and that you want them to convince you.
That's the best place to start. Make them think that they can talk you down, and use that as subtle leverage to get them to talk to you about it without the overcharged emotion they have now. Use the book as the basis for the discussion, and make them believe that you earnestly want discourse with them about it. If they ask you to read something like the Bible in return, do it (you'll have plenty to argue against if they do, and it will only hurt their cause in the long run).
My parents are the kind who would burn The God Delusion the moment it got into their house. They aren't going to listen to reason. Also, they will not back down, as they are fundamentalist Catholic. I was scared for a long time they would find out because I knew how they might react. My fears were confirmed, and there is nothing I can do. I am not being pessimistic and I am not being irrational. These are who my parents are, and I must accept the fact that they will not change.
Thanks for the advice and sympathy, though. And gomidog, too. Now that I've calmed down, I have a lot of thinking to do.
Here's a question. What church do your parents go to? It's a catholic church, obviously, but is the priest there also crazy? Usually only the megachurch evangelist dudes are all bringing down the fire and brimstone of absolute craziness. Pedophiles aside, Catholic priests, in my experience, are pretty chill, even if they are all religious. You can probably go to the priest at their church, and talk to him. Or maybe just call him on the phone or whatever. Your parents will probably go to him for advice, so good for you to get there first. If he tries to give you the going to hell bullshit, just hang up on him. Most likely I think he will see helping a family get along as a good thing, and do what he can do to smooth your parents over.
Are fundamentalist Catholics the ones that do not follow the changes done after the second Vatican council? Then I wish the you the best of luck. Also, do your parents believe in evolution?
Catholic priests, in my experience, are pretty chill, even if they are all religious. You can probably go to the priest at their church, and talk to him.
When I was in Confirmation, one of the priests noted at the beginning that if anyone didn't believe in it and were only doing it because their parents wanted them to, he would organize a meeting with them defending your right not to go through with it. I sometimes wish I had taken him up on that offer.
You guys are being unrealistic. These are his PARENTS, he probably doesn't want to cut off ties with them, despite their religious inflexibility.
I had a very close friend in high school who has SUPER religious parents. Like, you have no idea. She basically just follows her own path and isn't super confrontational about it, and asserts her right to freedom as an adult. As far as your parents, they will calm down. Just make sure that they know that you are still a good kid, and that will prove the most potent argument for your cause.
The "That's just the way I am and if you want to make a big fuss out of it, that's your problem, but if you don't want to talk about it, that's fine too." approach might work best in this case. Just be careful.
You guys are being unrealistic. These are his PARENTS, he probably doesn't want to cut off ties with them, despite their religious inflexibility.
I had a very close friend in high school who has SUPER religious parents. Like, you have no idea. She basically just follows her own path and isn't super confrontational about it, and asserts her right to freedom as an adult. As far as your parents, they will calm down. Just make sure that they know that you are still a good kid, and that will prove the most potent argument for your cause.
Well, it all comes down to their level of rationality. I've met some crazy parents in my life.
But yes, be a good kid. Be nice and kind and loving to them, even if they don't return it. The irony will be that you, the atheist, will be the better Christian.
But yes, be a good kid. Be nice and kind and loving to them, even if they don't return it. The irony will be that you, the atheist, will be the better Christian.
And the irony in that would be that crazy christians (fundamentalists, hereby renamed) would view that the other way round.
Here's a question. What church do your parents go to? It's a catholic church, obviously, but is the priest there also crazy? Usually only the megachurch evangelist dudes are all bringing down the fire and brimstone of absolute craziness. Pedophiles aside, Catholic priests, in my experience, are pretty chill, even if they are all religious. You can probably go to the priest at their church, and talk to him. Or maybe just call him on the phone or whatever. Your parents will probably go to him for advice, so good for you to get there first. If he tries to give you the going to hell bullshit, just hang up on him. Most likely I think he will see helping a family get along as a good thing, and do what he can do to smooth your parents over.
They do not go to church.
Are fundamentalist Catholics the ones that do not follow the changes done after the second Vatican council? Then I wish the you the best of luck. Also, do your parents believe in evolution?
Yes, they do not like the current church. They at least don't agree about birth control. They do support that. Other than that, however, they are quite insufferable, especially when it comes to evolution.
I guess your parents forgot the love the sinner hate the sin....
Hopefully you are not living with them.... How did they find out?
Yes, I am living with them. They don't want me to go to a dorm, for some odd reason. They found out because they found my computer password in my wallet (which means they turned it inside out looking for money), and decided snooping was a good idea, although they have never had a reason to do so. I've since changed my password, and I will make sure it stays locked in my new lock box.
You guys are being unrealistic. These are his PARENTS, he probably doesn't want to cut off ties with them, despite their religious inflexibility.
Actually, I do. For now, I am stuck, but as soon as I graduate, I will be gone. They will not know where I will live, my phone , or anything else. I've even considered changing my name so they cannot track me down (although they aren't that crazy--yet). As sad and cruel as it sounds, it is my only option.
What's especially sad is that I once loved them. They haven't always been like this. They used to be non-denominational. What happened is they fell in with the wrong crowd when I was about 14. At that time, I was a pantheist (I believed God and Nature were the same thing), but I had to pretend I was Catholic. Because that required reading the Bible, I had a crisis of faith. About four years later, I started to look at other religions until I realized about a year ago or so I no longer believed. When their craziness started affecting my friendships, and they started becoming more prejudiced, I couldn't respect them. It eventually came to a point I no longer cared for them. I shouldn't feel that way, but I can't help it.
But yes, be a good kid. Be nice and kind and loving to them, even if they don't return it. The irony will be that you, the atheist, will be the better Christian.
I am a good kid, and I am nice. That's what the shock is. But one thing I cannot do is bring myself to love them, because I can't. Now, I am good at pretending, so that shouldn't be a problem.
They found out because they found my computer password in my wallet
What the hell was your password that you had to write it down to remember yet make it clear you're an atheist?
In the unlikely event I died, I figured it would be a good idea to put my computer password somewhere safe that no one would look unless I were dead. I have never had them snoop before, and I don't know why they decided to do it now. They looked at my browser history and saw some of my comments here and elsewhere where I clearly state that I am a nonbeliever.
Actually, I do. For now, I am stuck, but as soon as I graduate, I will be gone. They will not know where I will live, my phone , or anything else. I've even considered changing my name so they cannot track me down (although they aren't that crazy--yet). As sad and cruel as it sounds, it is my only option.
Can you move in with a friend or get into the dorms next semester? If your parents kick you out, you can get more financial aid (as it will no longer be tied to their incomes). I'm sorry to hear that your parents would rather control you than love you. It is a sad situation.
For frocks sake, the edit button is not that useless. But damn, your parents are crazy. Not only do they try to loot your money, they also steal your password to then invade upon your privacy. Another question, why didn't you have your wallet on you? Or were you at home and did they just sneak behind your back?
@linktothepresent's parents: You're horrible parents, thank the invisible pink unicorn that your son is naturally a nice guy.
I went through this recently as well. When I moved I told my mom the truth about me. She was angry and called me a satanic lesbian. (I'm told her I was bi then too) She kept telling me I would go to hell and she doesn't care about my soul and such. She later calms and a few weeks passed and it's back to business. Then just this past Sunday she told the church about me and told me about the demons following me. Everyone thinks I'm a satanist because mom thinks they are the same thing. I tried to explain things logically but she brushes me away.
It's no where near Link's level of problem though. I'm sorry, Link. I can't do much but you have a ally here.
Actually, I do. For now, I am stuck, but as soon as I graduate, I will be gone. They will not know where I will live, my phone , or anything else. I've even considered changing my name so they cannot track me down (although they aren't that crazy--yet). As sad and cruel as it sounds, it is my only option.
Can you move in with a friend or get into the dorms next semester? If your parents kick you out, you can get more financial aid (as it will no longer be tied to their incomes). I'm sorry to hear that your parents would rather control you than love you. It is a sad situation.
I have thought about financial aid, and next week will see about making an appointment. My parents would never kick me out (holier than thou, apparently), and all of my "friends" blew me off when they went to their colleges. So, financial aid is all I might have.
For frocks sake, the edit button is not that useless. But damn, your parents are crazy. Not only do they try to loot your money, they also steal your password to then invade upon your privacy. Another question, why didn't you have your wallet on you? Or were you at home and did they just sneak behind your back?
I have no idea when they did it, but it was behind my back.
If your parents' love for you depends entirely on whether or not you are religious, then there are issues more serious than your atheism afoot. You have my sympathies, but if it is irreconcilable, then it is irreconcilable. I don't know if changing your name is really necessary, though, unless you are afraid your parents will come after you (and then the legal system can be invoked). I am truly sad to see a victim of religious brainwashing (in that your parents were indoctrinated) in such a situation as yourself and I wish you the best of luck.
This is very sad indeed. I find it infuriating that your parents are Catholic, do not go to church, but turn on you for being you.
When seeking financial aid. remember that there are grants for just about everything; being left handed, being of certain races, etc. Hit the internet and do some searching. I'd also see if your school counselor could be of any assistance in college stuff. They may or may not be able to help with the situation at home, but at least they're usually good for college information.
We're here for you as much as we can be. Which is, sadly, more than your parents are apparently.
This topic hits home for me as I grew up in a fundamentalist Christian household. However, while it turns out my parents are completely crazy religions, they always loved me and always wanted the best for me. Unfortunately, them wanting the best for me while I was younger screwed me up for years. I was hurt very badly, not by my parents as such, but by the blind faith they had in their religion and the church, and that going to church was the most important thing ever. No matter the emotional blackmail and abuse I suffered at the hands of the church leaders. So I drifted away from my faith for various reasons (you've no idea how much working for a Christian TV station can damage your faith!) but never really felt like discussing it with my parents.
I was over 18 and it was none of their business. A few years ago they came to stay with me and my girlfriend and I made an effort to talk to my father about the issues brought up in this thread. He actually apologised for any way I was hurt by his faith, and at the same time explained that he had no choice but to bring me up as a hard core Christian, as to do anything else would to fail as a parent. He believes that by me not being a Christian I'll go to hell. Who would want that for their kids?
In return I was honest and told him I couldn't respect him as a person and was disappointed in how much of my life was wasted on being religious. And also how much of my brother's and sisters' lives were wasted too, and how bad I felt for my nieces, who are now being brought up as little fundamentalists Christians by my fundamentalist Christian sister. It is really hurtful to see the cycle starting again, knowing it will be another 15 or 16 years before my nieces even have a chance to break out of their positions.
Having this conversation with my father was a good thing, and I've forgiven him and my mother. We talked as equals, two adults with no connection or responsibility to or for each other. Our relationship hasn't changed from before or after the conversation, as we both knew what the other thought, it is just now neither has to pretend anything.
Now the worst thing is my older sister. She tried to organise a big family get together for my father's 60th birthday last month. She sent out emails, and my brother and his wife sent one back pretty much saying "We'd rather not spend time together as a family." This sort of blew up into a mini crisis as she realised that she isn't actually liked by other members of the family, and it all comes down to how she continuously preaches at everyone and how she is indoctrinating her daughters. I have nothing in common with her now, only various genes, and she has become one of less pleasant people I've had to associate with. People say Dawkins goes over the top saying that bringing children up as religious is child abuse. My sister is a case study!
I was over 18 and it was none of their business. A few years ago they came to stay with me and my girlfriend and I made an effort to talk to my father about the issues brought up in this thread. He actually apologized for any way I was hurt by his faith, and at the same time explained that he had no choice but to bring me up as a hard core Christian, as to do anything else would to fail as a parent. He believes that by me not being a Christian I'll go to hell. Who would want that for their kids?
Damd, I wish my dad was more like yours. Well, not in the crazy fundamentalist christian way, but in the "Sorry for making life hard for you as a kid I was just trying to keep you from eternal damnation." My dad is largely unapologetic for the many years of church-going, not that i excepted him to be. Though, all in all, things are good between us. We've come to the arrangement that he leaves me alone about my atheism as long as I respect that my little brother is still his son and that it's my parents decision how to raise him. So, for my brothers sake, I play along every night and pray before dinner. It's not ideal, but it helps keep the peace in my family.
Oh, by the by, since my becoming an atheist, my mom and my sister have been asking me a lot of questions about why I am one. They are agnostic now.
Power + religion + humanity = very scary thing. I thing that for one to truly understand religion one have to be beyond human. I think everything comes down that "It's more affordable to be holy than wise, but it's easier to be wise than saint" (it was either Confucius or another philosopher) :P
Ask them to list the 10 commandments. I guarantee they won't be able to do it. I've never met a Christian who could. Use that as your starting point for explaining why they are really atheists, too. You're just not pretending to believe something you don't.
Probably because the Bible doesn't say anything about needing to go to church.
Wait, what?
Observe the sabbath day and keep it holy, as the LORD your God commanded you.
Under rabbinical law, that means you must not work on the sabbath. It doesn't mean go to church. In fact, church didn't exist the way we understand it until the Romans codified Christianity. Going to the temple was a whole different ball game, revolving around ritual animal sacrifice.
I am curious as to why so many people seem to believe that the morally correct decision would be for parents to value their child's freedom of choice over religion. I admit I don't know the context, but I know that there is at least one story in the Bible of Abraham being asked by God to sacrifice his son, and being perfectly willing to doing so. It was only just as he was about to cut his son's throat that God actually intervened and said 'just kidding.' A religion with a story like this as a fundamental part of their holy text doesn't strike me as one that would teach its members to be forgiving of a child deciding to convert to a different religion.
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The alternative, and this is very difficult (but perhaps necessary), is to remove yourself from your parents. If they can't love you for who you are, then they're not worth your time. Make a new family in college and leave the old behind. It can be a hard thing to do, but it may be necessary.
And remember, you've got a goodly number of people around here to talk to for support.
Thanks for the advice and sympathy, though. And gomidog, too. Now that I've calmed down, I have a lot of thinking to do.
Hopefully you are not living with them.... How did they find out?
I had a very close friend in high school who has SUPER religious parents. Like, you have no idea. She basically just follows her own path and isn't super confrontational about it, and asserts her right to freedom as an adult. As far as your parents, they will calm down. Just make sure that they know that you are still a good kid, and that will prove the most potent argument for your cause.
But yes, be a good kid. Be nice and kind and loving to them, even if they don't return it. The irony will be that you, the atheist, will be the better Christian.
What's especially sad is that I once loved them. They haven't always been like this. They used to be non-denominational. What happened is they fell in with the wrong crowd when I was about 14. At that time, I was a pantheist (I believed God and Nature were the same thing), but I had to pretend I was Catholic. Because that required reading the Bible, I had a crisis of faith. About four years later, I started to look at other religions until I realized about a year ago or so I no longer believed. When their craziness started affecting my friendships, and they started becoming more prejudiced, I couldn't respect them. It eventually came to a point I no longer cared for them. I shouldn't feel that way, but I can't help it.
@linktothepresent's parents: You're horrible parents, thank the invisible pink unicorn that your son is naturally a nice guy.
It's no where near Link's level of problem though. I'm sorry, Link. I can't do much but you have a ally here.
When seeking financial aid. remember that there are grants for just about everything; being left handed, being of certain races, etc. Hit the internet and do some searching. I'd also see if your school counselor could be of any assistance in college stuff. They may or may not be able to help with the situation at home, but at least they're usually good for college information.
We're here for you as much as we can be. Which is, sadly, more than your parents are apparently.
I was over 18 and it was none of their business. A few years ago they came to stay with me and my girlfriend and I made an effort to talk to my father about the issues brought up in this thread. He actually apologised for any way I was hurt by his faith, and at the same time explained that he had no choice but to bring me up as a hard core Christian, as to do anything else would to fail as a parent. He believes that by me not being a Christian I'll go to hell. Who would want that for their kids?
In return I was honest and told him I couldn't respect him as a person and was disappointed in how much of my life was wasted on being religious. And also how much of my brother's and sisters' lives were wasted too, and how bad I felt for my nieces, who are now being brought up as little fundamentalists Christians by my fundamentalist Christian sister. It is really hurtful to see the cycle starting again, knowing it will be another 15 or 16 years before my nieces even have a chance to break out of their positions.
Having this conversation with my father was a good thing, and I've forgiven him and my mother. We talked as equals, two adults with no connection or responsibility to or for each other. Our relationship hasn't changed from before or after the conversation, as we both knew what the other thought, it is just now neither has to pretend anything.
Now the worst thing is my older sister. She tried to organise a big family get together for my father's 60th birthday last month. She sent out emails, and my brother and his wife sent one back pretty much saying "We'd rather not spend time together as a family." This sort of blew up into a mini crisis as she realised that she isn't actually liked by other members of the family, and it all comes down to how she continuously preaches at everyone and how she is indoctrinating her daughters. I have nothing in common with her now, only various genes, and she has become one of less pleasant people I've had to associate with. People say Dawkins goes over the top saying that bringing children up as religious is child abuse. My sister is a case study!
Oh, by the by, since my becoming an atheist, my mom and my sister have been asking me a lot of questions about why I am one. They are agnostic now.
I thing that for one to truly understand religion one have to be beyond human. I think everything comes down that "It's more affordable to be holy than wise, but it's easier to be wise than saint" (it was either Confucius or another philosopher) :P
A religion with a story like this as a fundamental part of their holy text doesn't strike me as one that would teach its members to be forgiving of a child deciding to convert to a different religion.