Under rabbinical law, that means you must not work on the sabbath. It doesn't mean go to church.
It does if you're Catholic.
I am curious as to why so many people seem to believe that the morally correct decision would be for parents to value their child's freedom of choice over religion.
Are you saying the morally correct decision would be to deny their child that freedom?
I admit I don't know the context, but I know that there is at least one story in the Bible of Abraham being asked by God to sacrifice his son, and being perfectly willing to doing so. It was only just as he was about to cut his son's throat that God actually intervened and said 'just kidding.'
As for the story of Abraham, do you think he was morally justified? Do you think people should be allowed to try to kill their kid if "God told them to?"
A religion with a story like this as a fundamental part of their holy text doesn't strike me as one that would teach its members to be forgiving of a child deciding to convert to a different religion.
What religion WANTS you to convert away from it? Suppose a religion existed that didn't particularly care if you adhered to its principles or not. I don't think it would last very long.
I admit I don't know the context, but I know that there is at least one story in the Bible of Abraham being asked by God to sacrifice his son, and being perfectly willing to doing so. It was only just as he was about to cut his son's throat that God actually intervened and said 'just kidding.' A religion with a story like this as a fundamental part of their holy text doesn't strike me as one that would teach its members to be forgiving of a child deciding to convert to a different religion.
Read Hyperion and The Fall of Hyperion by Dan Simmons for the answer.
Ask them to list the 10 commandments. I guarantee they won't be able to do it. I've never met a Christian who could. Use that as your starting point for explaining why they are really atheists, too. You're just not pretending to believe something you don't.
Have you been reading any of this? They'll just get pissed off if he does that. As good as the argument may be, it's an absolutely terrible way to argue with a fundamentalist christian, let alone your fundamentalist parents. If they don't respect your position now, they never will. They might accept it and move on, but don't expect to have an honest and direct debate with them any time soon.
Underrabbinicallaw, that means you must not work on the sabbath. It doesn't mean go to church.
It does if you're Catholic.
Except that the New Testament says nothing about that requirement either. It's a rule that's been enforced by the Church itself; it literally appears nowhere in the Bible.
Underrabbinicallaw, that means you must not work on the sabbath. It doesn't mean go to church.
It does if you're Catholic.
Except that the New Testament says nothing about that requirement either. It's a rule that's been enforced by the Church itself; it literally appears nowhere in the Bible.
This is why organized religions are bullshit.
Hey, if I buy up some privileges from the Church, I can sin and still go to heaven, and it won't piss anyone off, especially those who have theses and nails, because it's all in the Bible.
Ask them to list the 10 commandments. I guarantee they won't be able to do it.
This isn't a game! You aren't trying to win!
Also, my father would be able to reel off shit like that from the Bible no problem. And then, from memory, do a three hour long lecture about Romans 6 through 8 to show how the 10 commandments no longer apply to holy spirit filled born again Christians. You know, stuff like: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
I myself led bible studies at my old church on this very subject, and would get into heated debates with my pastors about the wording of these chapters in Romans. We never came to any agreement to the exact theological underpinnings of these passages.
Now, 13 or 14 years later, I know a lot better, due to studying the Bible as a historical cultural document and from a historian's/scientist's point of view. Turns out it is impossible to get to the bottom of Paul's letter to the Romans, as it wasn't written by one person to a group of people, it was written by a number of people, each using the voice of Paul to give their views weight. One person says one thing, then another adds another, and it becomes almost discussion on theology among themselves. That's why Paul seems especially schizophrenic in those chapters, it is there where the key issues of repentance and redemption are "clarified".
My point: don't try to play the biblical knowledge superiority card so soon.
They found out because they found my computer password in my wallet (which means they turned it inside out looking for money), and decided snooping was a good idea
What did you have atheist porn on your computer?
And a declaration of your Atheism in a document or a wallpaper that said "I am an atheist"
Just curious, I don't think you could draw much conclusions on my spiritual belief's from my computer... (I guess not in a way that my parents could figure out ^_^
Don't try to play the biblical knowledge superiority card so soon.
I would say don't try to play it at all. As you so succinctly put it, this isn't a game.
As for suggestions on how to deal with this, I like the idea of finding a member of your local clergy. Even if your parents don't go to church, it may help if you find someone willing to meet with you. Explain the situation and ask if they would be willing to meet with you and your parents (perhaps not together at first, but eventually). If they try to convince you that you're not really an atheist, run far and fast, but keep looking. Cutting yourself off from your parents isn't easy. I've considered it myself (for different reasons), and whatever the reason is, it's not an easy thing to do. I also like the advice to give yourself (and them) time to calm down. Decisions made in heightened emotional states (good or bad) tend to end in regrets.
They found out because they found my computer password in my wallet (which means they turned it inside out looking for money), and decided snooping was a good idea
What did you have atheist porn on your computer?
And a declaration of your Atheism in a document or a wallpaper that said "I am an atheist"
Just curious, I don't think you could draw much conclusions on my spiritual belief's from my computer... (I guess not in a way that my parents could figure out ^_^
One specific thing they found was a Pownce post from earlier this year. In hindsight, it was rather paranoid of me, but it was enough to send my parents over the edge. I also had bookmarked the Skeptic's Annotated Bible and Richard Dawkins' website, so that also gave them a clue.
A bit of unfortunate news: all of the dorms at my college have been reserved by students who either lost their homes in Hurricane Ike, those who renewed their lease, or for possible new students. It looks like I'll have to stay home. At least I also got good news today. It seems my dad found out mother was treating me like crap. He took me aside and told me while he strongly disagrees with me, he would make sure she stops. He also said that he would respect my views and not try to make me Christian again.
A bittersweet day, but at least it wasn't terrible.
He also said that he would respect my views and not try to make me Christian again.
I am very happy for you, link. This proves that he is not blind to reason. It also proves that he understands his love should not have conditions set upon it.
Comments
This is why organized religions are bullshit.
Oh wait...
Also, my father would be able to reel off shit like that from the Bible no problem. And then, from memory, do a three hour long lecture about Romans 6 through 8 to show how the 10 commandments no longer apply to holy spirit filled born again Christians. You know, stuff like: "There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death."
I myself led bible studies at my old church on this very subject, and would get into heated debates with my pastors about the wording of these chapters in Romans. We never came to any agreement to the exact theological underpinnings of these passages.
Now, 13 or 14 years later, I know a lot better, due to studying the Bible as a historical cultural document and from a historian's/scientist's point of view. Turns out it is impossible to get to the bottom of Paul's letter to the Romans, as it wasn't written by one person to a group of people, it was written by a number of people, each using the voice of Paul to give their views weight. One person says one thing, then another adds another, and it becomes almost discussion on theology among themselves. That's why Paul seems especially schizophrenic in those chapters, it is there where the key issues of repentance and redemption are "clarified".
My point: don't try to play the biblical knowledge superiority card so soon.
And a declaration of your Atheism in a document or a wallpaper that said "I am an atheist"
Just curious, I don't think you could draw much conclusions on my spiritual belief's from my computer... (I guess not in a way that my parents could figure out ^_^
As for suggestions on how to deal with this, I like the idea of finding a member of your local clergy. Even if your parents don't go to church, it may help if you find someone willing to meet with you. Explain the situation and ask if they would be willing to meet with you and your parents (perhaps not together at first, but eventually). If they try to convince you that you're not really an atheist, run far and fast, but keep looking. Cutting yourself off from your parents isn't easy. I've considered it myself (for different reasons), and whatever the reason is, it's not an easy thing to do. I also like the advice to give yourself (and them) time to calm down. Decisions made in heightened emotional states (good or bad) tend to end in regrets.
A bittersweet day, but at least it wasn't terrible.