Not in what he said, but the way he said it. Chipman could have conveyed the same things in a way that wasn't immediately off putting; instead he acted like a GG'er.
Total Biscuit is a total idiot. I found this out when he sent Twitter followers at me for calling him out during his Starcraft 2 shout casting as nothing more than verbal diarrhoea in a British accent as he had no understanding of how to play or what was happening in any of the games.
It's not really passing the sniff test, to be honest. In fact, it stinks of ginned up nonsense. I'll wait to see how it bears out, but frankly, the fact that it could literally be reduced to a bulleted list of Gamergate's talking points makes me incredibly suspicious.
For example, in order:
- "Large Numbers of people in the industry support GG" (which has long been thoroughly debunked.)
- "It's really the Anti-GG frightening people and attacking them!"
- "The gaming press is trying to create a narrative that GG is bad, and AntiGG are the victims!"
- "People who do bad things in the gamergate name aren't really gamergaters, and I don't like them for it!"
- "Anita Sarkeessian is just in it for a profit, and isn't really trying to make things better" (But it's really about ethics in gaming journalism, not just about attacking feminists, guys, really)
- "They're just all in it for the fame and money, they're the ones who are really the bigots"
- "They're demonizing the gamer label and saying we're dead!"
- "The Anti-GG crowd are making us fire people - WHO ARE GAY TOO - because we're afraid they'll attack us if we're not PC enough!"
- "They're just fishing for attacks to feed their agendas!"
- "Doxxing doesn't really matter!"
- I've interviewed a lot of people from all different walks of life, and let me let you in on a little secret: "The current narrative tries to take sexuality, gender and race and run with these issues, load them in to their gun and fire off a few rounds in GamerGates direction, completely misleading the audience and indeed general news in to crafting a world that just isn't there.
And they craft it beautifully, the horrifying precision and calculation behind it is pure, sickening deception."
Literally nobody actually talks like that. This is written like a daytime soap opera. It's like someone has confused purple prose with making someone sound smart.
- "All the racist and sexist slurs are just trash talk, everybody knows that! It's not really being racist and sexist! It's just an integral part of online play!"
- "People in the media have been threatened into a corner, so they are FORCED to support anti-gg, they really support GG but they're afraid to say it!"
Not to mention, this supposed AAA game dev, while she doesn't speak of it much, certainly seems to not actually know how the Gaming industry works, or how the developmental process at a AAA dev works. Instead, she's repeating what a lot of armchair internet game devs think is how the AAA dev process/industry works.
This would stink of bullshit less, if it was literally printed on the shit of a bull, in ink made of liquified bullshit, and read in a plesant sitting room where everything was coated in a fine layer of bullshit, with a pleasantly warm fire fueled by dried bullshit.
Literally every bit of experience I have with interviewing people, people in general, the media, and every bit of knowledge about games and the gaming industry is screaming to me that this is utter bullshit.
It seems like GamerGate is actually actively attempting to murder any serious consideration of Video Games as an art form. Or at least they enjoy that that is basically what is happening because of them. And TotalBiscuit got angry when Moviebob called his audience "90% dullards who don't want games to try to be anything more than a distraction"?
The way this devolves into "hahaha fuck academia i just want my games to be stupid mindless toys" as the reblogs go on is kind of fucking heartbreaking. Like, there's all these people out there who want to push the boundaries of games as a medium and who want to document it and who want to tell everyone how important games are... being shouted down by people who are proudly ignorant and have no interest in seeing where this thing can take us.
I remind myself yet again that I make games for the sake of games, because I sure as fuck don't do it for the people who play them.
Not in what he said, but the way he said it. Chipman could have conveyed the same things in a way that wasn't immediately off putting; instead he acted like a GG'er.
That's about the size of it, Bob thinks to get to someone acting like a twat he needs to be a bigger twat and it makes for a spectacle both amazing and immensely frustrating.
There's an discussion to be had, the problem is that the people making the argument for progression are off their pants (Bob, Schieffer with his sockpuppet), charlatans (Sarkesian), or the small amount of moderates who get shouted down for the crime of being moderate (Briana Wu, was seen with Brad Wardell for five minutes and basically had her head handed to her by her fellow progressives for 'fraternizing with the enemy').
Er, What? Sarkeesian isn't a charlatan - unless you actually have some proof, which you fucking don't.
Brianna Wu hasn't had jack shit done to her by progressives, people went "Er, you're hanging out with Brad Wardell, what's up with that?" and when she said "I had a conversation with him and two of his female employees about business, and employee retention, I didn't really think about how it would look" everyone went "Well, fair enough then, it was just a bit odd." Far from handing someone their own head, except in topsy-turvy gamergate land, where a progressive breaking wind is a biological terror attack, but making threats against PAX because Wu was there is just a joke, man, don't you get the joke?
Do you see the rest of her Tropes Vs Women in video games series? No? Has she refunded the people who backed her? No? Will we ever see the rest? I kinda hope so as lot of people with good intentions backed that Kickstarter.
And I mean Schieffer, there's many things you can do on stage but bringing a sock puppet (a literal one) and basically dismiss a section of female gamers who don't side with you as the figments of neckbeards imagination is not one of them.
Hell, I don't object to him making a specifically GamerGate centered joke as long as he could do it right. Last I checked 40 + 1 + 1 is not 50 though that might have changed under the edict of Listen and Believe.
The fact that he shouldn't be throwing stones in his own glass house made of budget fuckups only compounds on the matter.
Really, bitching about the addition in a joke? Accurate arithmetic is pretty much the last thing on the list of comedic devices.
Speaking of glass houses, if you are going to whine about insubstantial details of the dude's joke, and then at least try not to spell his name so horrifically wrong (it's Schafer, not Schieffer).
Do you see the rest of her Tropes Vs Women in video games series? No? Has she refunded the people who backed her? No? Will we ever see the rest? I kinda hope so as lot of people with good intentions backed that Kickstarter.
No, I don't, they're only up to part two of the fifth topic, and so far the videos have over-delivered on what was originally promised. They've also been very transparent, and have released full financials as a 501c nonprofit.
But I also don't recall her ever promising it would be released instantly, and looking at the kickstarter page, I don't see literally ANY promises regarding a timeline, either. You are talking out of your arse, and there's absolutely no reason to justify refunds - which, I might add, were delivered LONG ago to those that requested them, which is a tiny, tiny fraction of people. Because it turns out, surprise surprise, that the people demanding she refund everybody didn't really back the project in the first place.
"And I mean Schieffer, there's many things you can do on stage but bringing a sock puppet (a literal one) and basically dismiss a section of female gamers who don't side with you as the figments of neckbeards imagination is not one of them."
No, you mean Schafer. But that aside, I'm pretty sure using a literal sockpuppet to mock a hashtag rife with sockpuppets purely intended to try and deflect criticism of gamergate is pretty definitely something you can do on stage.
And just by-the-by: The colour of your skin or your gender don't actually mean that you can't be racist or sexist, or just generally be a complete fucking shitheel. Just having women and minorities(or, I suppose, pretending to be) say you're not racist or sexist doesn't mean that you're not.
Hell, I don't object to him making a specifically GamerGate centered joke as long as he could do it right. Last I checked 40 + 1 + 1 is not 50 though that might have changed under the edict of Listen and Believe.
Oh no, he misspoke on stage. What a crime, we'd best hang him now before he goes on to commit any more horrific atrocities.
The fact that he shouldn't be throwing stones in his own glass house made of budget fuckups only compounds on the matter.
I'm sorry, what? I watched the speech again just to make sure I didn't miss something, but did he accuse gamergate of somehow making any sort of financial errors? That saying means "Don't accuse people of things you're guilty of", and I can't find a point where he did that.
Do you see the rest of her Tropes Vs Women in video games series? No? Has she refunded the people who backed her? No? Will we ever see the rest? I kinda hope so as lot of people with good intentions backed that Kickstarter.
And I mean Schieffer, there's many things you can do on stage but bringing a sock puppet (a literal one) and basically dismiss a section of female gamers who don't side with you as the figments of neckbeards imagination is not one of them.
Hell, I don't object to him making a specifically GamerGate centered joke as long as he could do it right. Last I checked 40 + 1 + 1 is not 50 though that might have changed under the edict of Listen and Believe.
The fact that he shouldn't be throwing stones in his own glass house made of budget fuckups only compounds on the matter.
Fuck off. You're here to have a goddamned discussion. You can arse around on any other part of the fucking internet.
And to answer the other person's warblings;
1) Sarkisian had an ETA of December 2012 on the DVDs that would be produced post series. So yeah, she's kinda lagging on that one.
2) Double-Fine's been notorious in terms of keeping on budget. Broken Age had to be split into two games because they flubbed the 3 Mil they got on their kickstarter on account of Tim being a Pelican who couldn't keep control of his own ego. So fucking up a joke based on numbers is just fucking heinous.
Of course, because I don't walk in lockstep with the progressive mad this makes me a pig fucker so whatever.
Someone is late to deliver on their kickstarter rewards, therefore feminism is wrong and feel free to threaten them with death and rape? Sorry, that's much lower than someone who has sex with swine.
How does having a progressive agenda impact "ethics in game journalism?"
Right, that's what I thought.
We don't buy it, we aren't going to buy it, and your yelling accomplishes nothing.
If you actually cared or had a meritous argument, you'd counter Saarkeesian's arguments. You don't because you can't, so instead you say "b...but...SHE DIDN'T DELIVER KICKSTARTER REWARDS!"
Er, you do realize what the word "Estimated" means, right? As in, where it says "Estimated Delivery". He's a hint - it doesn't mean "We absolutely promise, regardless of any changing circumstances, to release it by this date."
Double-Fine's been notorious in terms of keeping on budget. Broken Age had to be split into two games because they flubbed the 3 Mil they got on their kickstarter because Tim's a Pelican and couldn't stop the feature creep. So fucking up a joke on the maths sides of things is kinda a huge own goal.
What the fuck are you even talking about? He misspoke while telling a joke at an awards ceremony. If you think that's a huge own goal, then either you're a fucking maniac, or your standard for victory is so pitifully low that it's depressing to think about how far you have to sink and how desperately you have to reach just to get a minor "win".
Of course, because I don't walk in lockstep with the progressive mad this makes me a pig fucker so whatever.
Eh? Ease back on the persecution complex, dude. The fact you're talking utter bullshit makes you a person who is talking bullshit, nothing more. Nobody's asking you to march in lockstep, you're being told that what you're saying is simply nonsense at best, and a repetition of other people's weird, desperate lies at worst. If you're a pig-fucker, that's not my business. That's between you and your favorite farm animal.
Someone is late to deliver on their kickstarter rewards, therefore feminism is wrong and feel free to threaten them with death and rape? Sorry, that's much lower than someone who has sex with swine.
Did I say that? I said the individual was wrong because she did not do what she was paid to do, not her ideology.
At no point have I said that the threats were acceptable. At most I've laughed at the one subversive one noted that one time.
Just do me a favour and wind your neck in if all you're going to do is put words in my mouth.
Just do me a favour and wind your neck in if all you're going to do is put words in my mouth.
I'll admit, the sheer blinding lack of self awareness in saying this in the same breath as pretending that the words "Estimated delivery" constitute an absolute promise to deliver something by that time regardless of massively changing circumstances, just to rubbish someone as a "charlatan", is pretty funny.
So, Conan-san, what exactly are you trying to do in this thread anyways?
It's obvious what he wants to do: stir shit. He only appears to care about trivialities unrelated to the message of his oh-so-scary "progressive lot", perhaps because even he realizes that arguing for the virtues of bigotry is fighting an uphill battle.
If your problem is with progressivism, stop trying to poison the well with a misspoken joke and project management issues, and tell us what you really think.
Kickstarter isn't a commissioning service. It's more a donation service to acquire capital for people to get their project off the ground. Sometimes goal posts move or change during the development process.
Never said I was a GGer, just not subservient to the progressive lot.
Admitting of associating with bullshitgate would at least give understandable motivation for you to come here to stir shit, but now you just seem stupid.
If your problem is with progressivism, stop trying to poison the well with a misspoken joke and project management issues, and tell us what you really think.
Ok. The lot of you are arseholes and Anita Sarkeesian is a thoroughly unlikable individual for whom I hold in the lowest regard possible. To call her a "Bitch" is an insult upon dogs.
There is a discussion to be had about video games being more inclusive and we're not having it. We're having bureaucratic monologues about how, no matter what anyone does it's never enough if it's even acknowledged.
The people having these monologues are not interested in the solution, only about ranting endlessly about it as a means of income.
If anyone was even remotely interested in coming to the table to begin the process of getting to the "solution" of creating a more inclusive industry we'd have it by now.
Comments
For example, in order:
- "Large Numbers of people in the industry support GG" (which has long been thoroughly debunked.)
- "It's really the Anti-GG frightening people and attacking them!"
- "The gaming press is trying to create a narrative that GG is bad, and AntiGG are the victims!"
- "People who do bad things in the gamergate name aren't really gamergaters, and I don't like them for it!"
- "Anita Sarkeessian is just in it for a profit, and isn't really trying to make things better" (But it's really about ethics in gaming journalism, not just about attacking feminists, guys, really)
- "They're just all in it for the fame and money, they're the ones who are really the bigots"
- "They're demonizing the gamer label and saying we're dead!"
- "The Anti-GG crowd are making us fire people - WHO ARE GAY TOO - because we're afraid they'll attack us if we're not PC enough!"
- "They're just fishing for attacks to feed their agendas!"
- "Doxxing doesn't really matter!"
- I've interviewed a lot of people from all different walks of life, and let me let you in on a little secret:
"The current narrative tries to take sexuality, gender and race and run with these issues, load them in to their gun and fire off a few rounds in GamerGates direction, completely misleading the audience and indeed general news in to crafting a world that just isn't there.
And they craft it beautifully, the horrifying precision and calculation behind it is pure, sickening deception."
Literally nobody actually talks like that. This is written like a daytime soap opera. It's like someone has confused purple prose with making someone sound smart.
- "All the racist and sexist slurs are just trash talk, everybody knows that! It's not really being racist and sexist! It's just an integral part of online play!"
- "People in the media have been threatened into a corner, so they are FORCED to support anti-gg, they really support GG but they're afraid to say it!"
Not to mention, this supposed AAA game dev, while she doesn't speak of it much, certainly seems to not actually know how the Gaming industry works, or how the developmental process at a AAA dev works. Instead, she's repeating what a lot of armchair internet game devs think is how the AAA dev process/industry works.
This would stink of bullshit less, if it was literally printed on the shit of a bull, in ink made of liquified bullshit, and read in a plesant sitting room where everything was coated in a fine layer of bullshit, with a pleasantly warm fire fueled by dried bullshit.
Literally every bit of experience I have with interviewing people, people in general, the media, and every bit of knowledge about games and the gaming industry is screaming to me that this is utter bullshit.
I remind myself yet again that I make games for the sake of games, because I sure as fuck don't do it for the people who play them.
There's an discussion to be had, the problem is that the people making the argument for progression are off their pants (Bob, Schieffer with his sockpuppet), charlatans (Sarkesian), or the small amount of moderates who get shouted down for the crime of being moderate (Briana Wu, was seen with Brad Wardell for five minutes and basically had her head handed to her by her fellow progressives for 'fraternizing with the enemy').
Brianna Wu hasn't had jack shit done to her by progressives, people went "Er, you're hanging out with Brad Wardell, what's up with that?" and when she said "I had a conversation with him and two of his female employees about business, and employee retention, I didn't really think about how it would look" everyone went "Well, fair enough then, it was just a bit odd." Far from handing someone their own head, except in topsy-turvy gamergate land, where a progressive breaking wind is a biological terror attack, but making threats against PAX because Wu was there is just a joke, man, don't you get the joke? Don't you mean Devin Faraci?
And I mean Schieffer, there's many things you can do on stage but bringing a sock puppet (a literal one) and basically dismiss a section of female gamers who don't side with you as the figments of neckbeards imagination is not one of them.
Hell, I don't object to him making a specifically GamerGate centered joke as long as he could do it right. Last I checked 40 + 1 + 1 is not 50 though that might have changed under the edict of Listen and Believe.
The fact that he shouldn't be throwing stones in his own glass house made of budget fuckups only compounds on the matter.
Speaking of glass houses, if you are going to whine about insubstantial details of the dude's joke, and then at least try not to spell his name so horrifically wrong (it's Schafer, not Schieffer).
But I also don't recall her ever promising it would be released instantly, and looking at the kickstarter page, I don't see literally ANY promises regarding a timeline, either. You are talking out of your arse, and there's absolutely no reason to justify refunds - which, I might add, were delivered LONG ago to those that requested them, which is a tiny, tiny fraction of people. Because it turns out, surprise surprise, that the people demanding she refund everybody didn't really back the project in the first place. No, you mean Schafer. But that aside, I'm pretty sure using a literal sockpuppet to mock a hashtag rife with sockpuppets purely intended to try and deflect criticism of gamergate is pretty definitely something you can do on stage.
And just by-the-by: The colour of your skin or your gender don't actually mean that you can't be racist or sexist, or just generally be a complete fucking shitheel. Just having women and minorities(or, I suppose, pretending to be) say you're not racist or sexist doesn't mean that you're not. Oh no, he misspoke on stage. What a crime, we'd best hang him now before he goes on to commit any more horrific atrocities. I'm sorry, what? I watched the speech again just to make sure I didn't miss something, but did he accuse gamergate of somehow making any sort of financial errors? That saying means "Don't accuse people of things you're guilty of", and I can't find a point where he did that.
And to answer the other person's warblings;
1) Sarkisian had an ETA of December 2012 on the DVDs that would be produced post series. So yeah, she's kinda lagging on that one.
2) Double-Fine's been notorious in terms of keeping on budget. Broken Age had to be split into two games because they flubbed the 3 Mil they got on their kickstarter on account of Tim being a Pelican who couldn't keep control of his own ego. So fucking up a joke based on numbers is just fucking heinous.
Of course, because I don't walk in lockstep with the progressive mad this makes me a pig fucker so whatever.
A retort to your Marvel Pandering;
Oh wait. To start a fight and to cry how a joke made you go booboo.
Right, that's what I thought.
We don't buy it, we aren't going to buy it, and your yelling accomplishes nothing.
If you actually cared or had a meritous argument, you'd counter Saarkeesian's arguments. You don't because you can't, so instead you say "b...but...SHE DIDN'T DELIVER KICKSTARTER REWARDS!"
In the battle between the x-men and the brotherhood I'm just hoping the fantastic four stop them from blowing up my shit. Did I say that? I said the individual was wrong because she did not do what she was paid to do, not her ideology.
At no point have I said that the threats were acceptable. At most I've laughed at the one subversive one noted that one time.
Just do me a favour and wind your neck in if all you're going to do is put words in my mouth.
If your problem is with progressivism, stop trying to poison the well with a misspoken joke and project management issues, and tell us what you really think.
He doesn't like you. I don't like you either.
I just wish they didn't have to give money to Sarkeesian and McIntosh.
I guess in the end there's really nothing to take from this whole controversy.
There is a discussion to be had about video games being more inclusive and we're not having it. We're having bureaucratic monologues about how, no matter what anyone does it's never enough if it's even acknowledged.
The people having these monologues are not interested in the solution, only about ranting endlessly about it as a means of income.
If anyone was even remotely interested in coming to the table to begin the process of getting to the "solution" of creating a more inclusive industry we'd have it by now.