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2016 Presidential Election

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  • malzraa said:

    muppet said:


    Still, orders of magnitude more people are dying from car accidents and lack of access to medication than domestic gun violence, so for me that's not a deal breaker sorry. It's an issue but not even close to a priority just based on statistics.

    http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/injury.htm

    Almost exactly the same number of people in the US are killed by guns as are killed in motor vehicle crashes. You seriously need to tone down the hyperbole man. If you had said "more" you would be (barely) correct. "Orders of magnitude more" implies a difference of >100, and the real difference is 1.01. That's pants on fire territory.
    Go ahead and try quantifying the access issue. Something like 1 in 5 Americans have left their prescriptions at the pharmacy once they find out the price. Now sometimes maybe that's acne cream but most of the time I'm betting it's something they need as they've been prescribed it and all.

    Go on a Crohn's/Colitis forum sometime and read up on people desperately asking each other what homeopathic and holistic and new age treatments others think work. That's just one condition that's too expensive to treat in the US, but totally treatable if you can get the meds. My wife and I make > $150K/year (gross) and we can't afford it. Imagine somebody making less.

    Does all that add up to an order of magnitude? Hard to quantify. Maybe hyperbole. I'm sick of watching people I've spoken to online for a decade or more and tried to help die because their meds are too expensive. Guns are a problem, but having the worst healthcare system in the developed world is a lot more personal to me.

    And like I said before, it's not like Bernie is BFFs with the NRA. His rating has ranged from a C- to an F.

    I concede that I may fall down on statistics and make an emotional argument here and there. I think our issues in this country are at least as cultural as they are policy driven and quantifiable with statistics. How do you statistically quantify "has a shitty, anti-cooperative culture"? You can, in one aspect or another. In dribs and drabs.

    But you're right I was wrong about MVAs although I wonder how many people die of shit that never even gets diagnosed let alone treated.

    Given those numbers, though, is there a case that our regulation of motor vehicles sucks just as bad as our regulation of firearms? Sure, there are a lot of variables, but there's at least as many motor vehicles in this country as guns. More states regulate driving than firearm ownership. Is it enough? Maybe not since just as many people die. The gun issue is way more emotional, though.
  • Greg said:

    PyreKing said:
    Who would this matter to? It's not like he's an elected official.
    Carson or Trump running as an Independent might take away votes from the official nominee.
  • PyreKing said:

    Greg said:

    PyreKing said:
    Who would this matter to? It's not like he's an elected official.
    Carson or Trump running as an Independent might take away votes from the official nominee.
    See: Joe Lieberman's Congressional hissy fit (sadly, he won) and subsequent undermining of the ACA.
  • muppet said:


    Given those numbers, though, is there a case that our regulation of motor vehicles sucks just as bad as our regulation of firearms?

    Cars are death machines, and the design of urban areas as car-first zones is a travesty in North America, but that's an (interesting) issue for local politics.
  • edited December 2015
    Basically in our society we can't really have stricter driver licensing without a better public transportation system or else millions of people would be fucked.
    Post edited by ninjarabbi on
  • You're not factoring in size of population of ownership. Even I you factor out the 2/3 of gun deaths that are suicide, the gun death:gun owner ratio is way worse than car death:car owner rate.
  • The biggest news to me is that Chris Christie will be seeing Bruce Springsteen. After Bruce's involvement in Jimmy Fallon's Born to Run parody mocking the George Washington Bridge fiasco, he had reportedly switched to Bon Jovi fandom, but this attendance proves that he is still in the Springsteen camp. On any other tour this would mean fairly little, but The River 2016 tour is becoming one of the most scalped events in rock n roll history, leading New York's Department of Justice to look into the legality of the price inflation for the Madison Square Garden shows, which have been going on the second hand market for %1000 mark up. The show he'll be seeing Bruce at sold out within the hour of tickets going on sale (it's the same show I'm going to), so clearly there is a devotion to Bruce either in his dedication to getting tickets early, or financial sacrifice to see this show. The best part is in the video, tho.

    As a guy who's been to 132 Bruce Springsteen concerts -- listen to me, I don't do drugs, I don't drink, this is it for me, okay? That's all I got. I still live in hope that someday, even as he gets older and older, he'll wake up some day and go 'he's a good guy, alright, alright?'

    Maybe we could be friends. He told me we were friends a little while -- it's been a year and a half ago

    Not that you're counting the days, Governor.
  • "I h-hope Springsteen sempai will n-notice me!"
  • "I h-hope Springsteen sempai will n-notice me!"

    Hey, if you're from New Jersey this is kinda a big deal.
  • edited December 2015
    Here is something completely different to cleanse your pallet from the debate. Killer Mike (rapper) endorses Bernie Sanders, and produced a 6 part interview with him.



    Just linking to part one, but its nice to see a good interview.
    Post edited by Coldguy on
  • edited December 2015
    Public Policy Polling is the best. They're not the greatest at methodology, but they ask all the best questions. They were the agency who found that the 113th Congress was less popular than Communism, that Deez Nutz was more popular than the majority of major party candidates, and now they've found that 30 percent of Republican primary voters and 19 percent of Democratic primary voters support bombing Agrabah, the Kingdom in Aladdin.
    Post edited by Greg on
  • edited December 2015
    Taking a break from posting on forums and social media can be a cleansing experience. Now back into the fray.

    Tech problems in politics: The Hillary Clinton-Bernie Sanders data fight, explained (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2015/12/18/the-hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-data-fight-explained/?postshare=5561450469536312&tid=ss_tw
    Post edited by DoubleGomez on
  • That whole thing is a mess for both sides. Nothing but bad optics for the DNC, and Team Sanders could lose access to important data for months, possibly keeping them from releasing their quarterly report on time, and will lose any court battle since they are clearly in the wrong on this one.
  • How are they clearly in the wrong? I've read conflicting presentations of the "facts". If you have something definitive, please share for the class.
  • edited December 2015
    The Sanders staffer stole millions of dollars of proprietary information, had at least three subordinates do the same thing, and then tried to cover it up. If that's not clearly in the wrong then I don't know what is.
    Post edited by Banta on
  • I've also read that it (basically) a permissions issue screw up by the third party the DNC hired that allowed them access, which was reported soon after it was noticed. The odds are the real track of events won't be known for a while, which just hurts Sanders in a situation where they may not be in the wrong.
  • His campaign's access has already been restored, I read this morning.
  • On the plus side there will be something for Bernie and Hillary to talk about during the debate tonight.
  • That's actually a bad thing for Bernie. Every minute she spends talking about that is a minute she isn't talking positions or answering about missteps or flip flops in other positions. It's bad enough the leader of the DNC *ahem* has allowed a record low number of debates and buried them at times no one will watch, now she's pretty much helped in an attempt to sling mud on the only apparent challenge to the Annointed Ones ascension.
  • Seriously? 8pm on a Saturday? On the weekend on a massive movie premier? They really don't want this debate seen, do they?
  • edited December 2015
    All the Democratic debates are being held on Saturdays. I think part of it is that the Republicans are doing such a good job of destroying themselves, the Democratic strategy is now don't get on anyone's bad side and you'll be golden.
    Post edited by Greg on
  • That cannot be the case. You don't let your opponents message be heard more than yours if you can avoid it. It's simple brand management.

    I happen to think it's fairly conspicuous that a former co-chair of Hillarys 2008 campaign, now chairing the DNC, has primary input to debate count/format/count when her former boss is the presumed front runner. I'm not calling shenanigans yet but it does seem a little fishy...
  • Eh. Even the "moderate" Republicans are pretty abhorrent human beings at this point. The best Democrat strategy might be to take things the GOP said in the primaries and just air them as Democrat ads.

    If Trump gets the nomination, Trump will air Trump ads, and Hillary will also air Trump ads.
  • Greg said:

    All the Democratic debates are being held on Saturdays. I think part of it is that the Republicans are doing such a good job of destroying themselves, the Democratic strategy is now don't get on anyone's bad side and you'll be golden.

    That's even worse!
  • Also chances are no one is going to watch the D debate compared to the R debate. Better to have it was on a Saturday excuse :-p
  • I don't even watch the D debates. Anything substantive they say I can get from a text summary after the fact, and nothing new is revealed about the candidates at any point.

    The GOP debates are shitfests. I do watch them, but only for entertainment.
  • Watched about ten minutes of the Democratic debate. It's funny that people think these will help Sanders get the nomination, as he doesn't carry himself particularly well. That being said, I found it really quite unnerving that Clinton refused to say what she would do if things went wrong on a number of questions. Her current plan for ISIS is essentially Kennedy's Vietnam, so what to do if that fails is pretty important.
  • It had to be done

    image
  • Ted Cruz just endorsed theocracy when giving a stump to a hate group.

    'Murica.
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