At this point I want Bernie to get the nod and win the general, just so Muppet and other Sanders supporters can watch their hopes and dreams die in the fire that is Beltway Politics.
Man, I'm comfortable pointing out his chances of winning all day long, but hoping he gets the nod and the win? You're a much crueler man than me.
When I first heard that Stormfront thing, I wanted it to be some sort of "bad guy doing the right thing" story. They knew everyone hated them because they're all super racist, but they also knew Trump is terrible for the country so they came out in support of him so that their brand being attached would taint his candidacy.
Mostly he's talking about statements made while campaigning or otherwise publicly appearing, and platform planks, policy stances, etc (as opposed to the person themselves). Some ads have definitely skirted a line and I think it's a shame.
Still, if this and some college essay are the only skeletons they can find in Bernie's closet, he's doing well.
Seems like he's for common sense regulation to me. If you're looking for a ban, then nobody's going to make you happy.
Common sense regulation? Dude, he voted against the Brady bill every time it came up, which is primarily background checks and waiting periods. It doesn't get any more common sense than that.
He also voted against better defining what Gun shows were and what sales could go on there, he voted against instant background checks and having to perform them at gun shows, he voted for laws that prevent manufacturers from being liable.
He's got some high points, but his record on gun control is extremely spotty at best. Which makes sense - after all, he's Senator for a state with very strong opinions in favor of guns(and against gun control). Of course he's going to have a poor record on gun control - he's a politician, and he wants to keep his seat, so he's not going to piss off his electorate.
I'm not familiar enough with the Brady Bill to know whether there's some poison pill in there he'd have objected to.
He's repeatedly said that there are too many loopholes and guns are too easy to get.
Still, orders of magnitude more people are dying from car accidents and lack of access to medication than domestic gun violence, so for me that's not a deal breaker sorry. It's an issue but not even close to a priority just based on statistics.
Shootings are HORRIBLE. Institutionalized poverty is so much worse that it's ridiculous.
I'll look into the Brady Bill and whether he's said anything about his voting record. That's interesting.
I'm not familiar enough with the Brady Bill to know whether there's some poison pill in there he'd have objected to.
Yeah, the poison pill is "He's the senator for a very pro-gun state, voting in favor means potentially losing his seat."
You can act like he's the second coming of Christ himself all you like, but he's still a politician, and he knows on which side his bread is buttered.
Still, orders of magnitude more people are dying from car accidents and lack of access to medication than domestic gun violence, so for me that's not a deal breaker sorry. It's an issue but not even close to a priority just based on statistics.
The way you carry on about him, I frankly doubt it'd be a dealbreaker if he shot your dog and burned your house down, before driving off in your car, drunk, flipping you the bird out the window.
Still, orders of magnitude more people are dying from car accidents and lack of access to medication than domestic gun violence, so for me that's not a deal breaker sorry. It's an issue but not even close to a priority just based on statistics.
By this logic we should do nothing but research heart disease.
I just listen to what he says and measure it against my values, man, same as anybody else. Clinton is not for me.
Gun violence is a problem in the US without a doubt, but I can understand having other priorities for pretty well justified reasons.
Gun fetishism is more of a problem here than gun law at this point, and one exacerbates the other. It's not as simple as a law anymore. More regulation would help, especially where there's practically none. If I could pick one thing I'd like to see amended during an administration and only one thing, gun control is pretty far down my list. After half a dozen other issues at least.
Mostly it seems to come down to what Churba said: the guy was representing his constituency. That's pretty much what a democracy is supposed to look like. It gives me reason to believe that with a larger constituency that had different values, he'd act appropriately.
I doubt very much that gun control is his hill to die on. Really it's more like a textbook wedge issue.
If words were everything I'd have loved George Bush. Freedom! Murrica! Liberators!
Still, orders of magnitude more people are dying from car accidents and lack of access to medication than domestic gun violence, so for me that's not a deal breaker sorry. It's an issue but not even close to a priority just based on statistics.
By this logic we should do nothing but research heart disease.
By this logic we can only care about one thing. What I'm saying is that while gun deaths are emotionally impactful they're not any worse quantitatively than deaths due to car crashes or deaths due to a $500 price tag on a bottle of medicine. Who picks a candidate based on one issue? In order to satisfy this sort of argument do I need to write a long form score card?
Bernie has demonstrated that he cares about what I care about and where we may differ seems mild or like something he's not going to be stubborn on. Gun control just isn't important enough to me to outweigh tuition, student debt, healthcare, and other issues I don't trust in the hands of Hillary Clinton.
Hillary will be Obama 2, more or less. Better than Jeb Bush but not better enough.
Mostly it seems to come down to what Churba said: the guy was representing his constituency. That's pretty much what a democracy is supposed to look like. It gives me reason to believe that with a larger constituency that had different values, he'd act appropriately.
Pretty much. His record isn't great, but it's in line, roughly, with his constituency. I don't hold it against him, beyond a vague wish that he'd have had some fucking spine and just done it - sure, part of the job is following what your electorate wants, but doing what's best for your electorate regardless is arguably another.
That said, it was more pointing out that he's just like every other politician, than attacking his record on gun control specifically. He wants to keep his job, and the way you do that is by doing and saying what will please the largest number of people - and, in his home state at least, he has a very good record of doing that.
I don't like that Bernie voted for the "assault weapons" ban but I get the feeling that most of the time when he speaks about gun control its just to pander to the really anti-gun people or just as a reaction to Hillary. It definitely doesn't seem like one of his priories though. I'm not against something like more background checks if implemented correctly but I'd have a hard time voting for anything the brady campaign put forth just out of spite.
My problem is a lot of the bills put forth are clearly by people who don't know guns or the law. Like when they say they want to have background checks for online gun purchases. We literally already have that. They can't just mail you a gun, it has to be sent to an FFL first who has to do a background check according to federal law. Even though I think "gun show loophole" is kind of a misnomer, I could see that being delt with pretty easily. IIRC any gun transfers done on an FFL's property must have a background check done, even if its a private sale so arguably a gun show would count as temporarily the FFL's property
Still, orders of magnitude more people are dying from car accidents and lack of access to medication than domestic gun violence, so for me that's not a deal breaker sorry. It's an issue but not even close to a priority just based on statistics.
Almost exactly the same number of people in the US are killed by guns as are killed in motor vehicle crashes. You seriously need to tone down the hyperbole man. If you had said "more" you would be (barely) correct. "Orders of magnitude more" implies a difference of >100, and the real difference is 1.01. That's pants on fire territory.
That is true, but 2/3 of firearm deaths in the US are suicide and while that is still really fucked up, unless you're suicidal you're still more likely to die in a car accident than from someone shooting you.
That is true, but 2/3 of firearm deaths in the US are suicide and while that is still really fucked up, unless you're suicidal you're still more likely to die in a car accident than from someone shooting you.
America is the only country where I can imagine someone getting shot while in a car accident, and it doesn't seem that insane.
"So I was driving home from the bar and this guy rear-ends me. My shotgun falls right off the rack and shoots me in the leg. And to make matters worse I spilled beer all over my pants!"
Comments
Still, if this and some college essay are the only skeletons they can find in Bernie's closet, he's doing well.
He also voted against better defining what Gun shows were and what sales could go on there, he voted against instant background checks and having to perform them at gun shows, he voted for laws that prevent manufacturers from being liable.
He's got some high points, but his record on gun control is extremely spotty at best. Which makes sense - after all, he's Senator for a state with very strong opinions in favor of guns(and against gun control). Of course he's going to have a poor record on gun control - he's a politician, and he wants to keep his seat, so he's not going to piss off his electorate.
He's repeatedly said that there are too many loopholes and guns are too easy to get.
Still, orders of magnitude more people are dying from car accidents and lack of access to medication than domestic gun violence, so for me that's not a deal breaker sorry. It's an issue but not even close to a priority just based on statistics.
Shootings are HORRIBLE. Institutionalized poverty is so much worse that it's ridiculous.
I'll look into the Brady Bill and whether he's said anything about his voting record. That's interesting.
You can act like he's the second coming of Christ himself all you like, but he's still a politician, and he knows on which side his bread is buttered. The way you carry on about him, I frankly doubt it'd be a dealbreaker if he shot your dog and burned your house down, before driving off in your car, drunk, flipping you the bird out the window.
Gun violence is a problem in the US without a doubt, but I can understand having other priorities for pretty well justified reasons.
Gun fetishism is more of a problem here than gun law at this point, and one exacerbates the other. It's not as simple as a law anymore. More regulation would help, especially where there's practically none. If I could pick one thing I'd like to see amended during an administration and only one thing, gun control is pretty far down my list. After half a dozen other issues at least.
Here's an interesting breakdown of the Brady Bill issue by Politifact:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/oct/13/hillary-clinton/hillary-clinton-bernie-sanders-voted-against-brady/
Mostly it seems to come down to what Churba said: the guy was representing his constituency. That's pretty much what a democracy is supposed to look like. It gives me reason to believe that with a larger constituency that had different values, he'd act appropriately.
I doubt very much that gun control is his hill to die on. Really it's more like a textbook wedge issue.
If words were everything I'd have loved George Bush. Freedom! Murrica! Liberators!
Bernie has demonstrated that he cares about what I care about and where we may differ seems mild or like something he's not going to be stubborn on. Gun control just isn't important enough to me to outweigh tuition, student debt, healthcare, and other issues I don't trust in the hands of Hillary Clinton.
Hillary will be Obama 2, more or less. Better than Jeb Bush but not better enough.
That said, it was more pointing out that he's just like every other politician, than attacking his record on gun control specifically. He wants to keep his job, and the way you do that is by doing and saying what will please the largest number of people - and, in his home state at least, he has a very good record of doing that.
My problem is a lot of the bills put forth are clearly by people who don't know guns or the law. Like when they say they want to have background checks for online gun purchases. We literally already have that. They can't just mail you a gun, it has to be sent to an FFL first who has to do a background check according to federal law. Even though I think "gun show loophole" is kind of a misnomer, I could see that being delt with pretty easily. IIRC any gun transfers done on an FFL's property must have a background check done, even if its a private sale so arguably a gun show would count as temporarily the FFL's property
Can't hold that against Sanders, it's more his supporters who can't seem to remember that part.
Almost exactly the same number of people in the US are killed by guns as are killed in motor vehicle crashes. You seriously need to tone down the hyperbole man. If you had said "more" you would be (barely) correct. "Orders of magnitude more" implies a difference of >100, and the real difference is 1.01. That's pants on fire territory.