I read the first volume of Oni Press' the Sixth Gun recently, and I'm not sure if I hate it or really like it. I like the premise, the story was interesting, the world of the old west plus paranormal stuff is neat, but the fact that it's more then one volume greatly concerns me. The first volume feels like it should have been the whole series, like they rushed through these major events that could have been told more slowly and deeply, which would have made the characters more interesting and maybe told us more about the world (which seems rather interesting.)
It kind of reminds me of my experience with the single player of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, where in the moment to moment playing of the game the story was really cool, engaging and energizing, but then when I thought back on the story at all it didn't really make any logical sense and wasn't really fulfilling at all as a narrative. That's sort of what I think of Sixth Gun, while reading it it was really cool but looking back on it now I'm not sure if I really like it. Certainly the way it ends feels like it should just have ended there, it feels complete, and that it doesn't bothers me (even though I haven't read anything but this first trade paperback.)
Miller basically cranked everything about it up to eleven.
Wall to wall Whores.
See, a lot of people shit on Superhero comics, but there is a hell of a lot of good stuff out there. Just from DC worth the read: The Sandman, Fables, Superman for All seasons, Superman: Red Son, Batman: Arkham Asylum(A serious house on Serious Earth), Batman: Hush, JLA: Identity Crisis, Hellblazer, Ex Machina, and that's only what comes to mind immediately.
Other Superhero titles worth a read: The Essential Spiderman, Howard the Duck, Spiderman: Brand New Day, Plastic Man, Shazam, Starman omnibus, The Marvel Civil War storyline, Jack Kirby's New Gods, JOKER, Runaways: Dead end Kids, Black Summer, The 2009 Spider-Woman Run, Batman and Robin from the Batman: Reborn series, S.W.O.R.D., Agents of ATLAS, Captain Britain & MI-13, WANTED, Animal Man, Preacher, Invincible, Miracleman, Love and Rockets, Saga of the Swamp thing.
And I'm probably forgetting a good dozen, at least.
I've been reading a lot of Batman lately, and I've just started getting interested in superhero comics. I've boughtYear One,The Dark Knight Returns,Hush,andThe Long Halloween.
Brainfail on previous post, you've already got Batman Hush - Did you get both Volumes, or just the first?
Good work, I didn't know they'd collected both graphic novel volumes into one book.
I found it kind of weak and simplistic.
Eh, I'm not so sure. It's certainly no Preacher or Sandman, but it's competently done. I didn't really feel it was the strongest story out there, but I also wouldn't call it weak, though I feel it relies a little too much on your knowledge of the superman lore that it's contradicting to give you a bit more flavor, even though it is readable without that knowlege. Simplistic? Well, Yes, I suppose so - but it's a three issue limited run, and there is only so much complexity you can fit into that, on the surface level. I've never really thought of it as simplistic, however, 1)I've not read it since I bought it in 2004, and 2)I do have that knowledge I mentioned before to fall back on, so I might be, through the failings of memory, remembering something as being in the comic, when it was only implied. I should go back through my old stuff at my father's place and find the damn thing. I need more shite for my bookshelf and a half, anyway.
Eh, I'm not so sure. It's certainly no Preacher or Sandman, but it's competently done. I didn't really feel it was the strongest story out there, but I also wouldn't call it weak, though I feel it relies a little too much on your knowledge of the superman lore that it's contradicting to give you a bit more flavor, even though it is readable without that knowlege. Simplistic? Well, Yes, I suppose so - but it's a three issue limited run, and there is only so much complexity you can fit into that, on the surface level. I've never really thought of it as simplistic, however, 1)I've not read it since I bought it in 2004, and 2)I do have that knowledge I mentioned before to fall back on, so I might be, through the failings of memory, remembering something as being in the comic, when it was only implied.
I really liked the first issue, and the few pages at the very end, since those actually seemed to be exploring the core question of what if Superman had landed in the USSR? However, issue 2 and most of issue 3 ended up just being a cavalcade of every DC hero in the entire god damn universe to appease the fanboys. If they had just made it Superman only, with the same tone as the first issue all the way to the end, it would be one of the greats.
I really liked the first issue, and the few pages at the very end, since those actually seemed to be exploring the core question of what if Superman had landed in the USSR? However, issue 2 and most of issue 3 ended up just being a cavalcade of every DC hero in the entire god damn universe to appease the fanboys. If they had just made it Superman only, with the same tone as the first issue all the way to the end, it would be one of the greats.
That is one of the overall problems with not just this book, but Elseworlds series comics instead - the DC universe is all interconnected. Even comics like Sandman, Hellblazer exist in the overall universe, even if it's not always a case of "Yo, shit's going wrong, someone get Dream and Death on the phone, we need some anthromorphised concepts of natural forces and effects up ins."
Thus, you end up with a cavalcade of heroes - Even just if you kept it with things superman is explicitly involved in, you have Team Superman, the Justice leauges, the Legion of Superheros(Which on it's own can be dozens of superheros), Batman and the Bat-family. The whole universe is so heavily interconnected that if you change one thing, you end up having to change damn near the whole thing. It's either heroes for ten on the penny, or you have to ignore a massive amount of the universe, and most of the time, they go with the former rather than the latter - It's not about the fanboys, to be honest, they're barely even a consideration, if you look at the overall universe.
It's a case of that DC has gone so strongly from individual books over to one unified universe with books that change the focus to a particular hero with other heroes in the background, and thus, by changing a character, particularly a main character like superman, is like taking out a card from a house of the same - the entire structure rapidly changes, and they try to show that - which is sometimes a mistake.
That said, there are some very good Elseworlds stories, and larger universe stories, which do involve large amounts of characters, and don't suffer for it - I think that Red Son only really suffers for it minorly, they don't stretch it too far - Outside of Explicitly superman series mainstays, they only have Wonder Woman, Batman, and the four Earth Green Lanterns. Also, the Batman stories in the Elseworlds universe tend to keep it a lot more simple on the "cavalcade of heroes" deal, I think because Batman tends to keep within the Bat-family, if even that, rather than hanging and chilling with every hero in the 'verse like superman does.
Thus, you end up with a cavalcade of heroes - Even just if you kept it with things superman is explicitly involved in, you have Team Superman, the Justice leauges, the Legion of Superheros(Which on it's own can be dozens of superheros), Batman and the Bat-family. The whole universe is so heavily interconnected that if you change one thing, you end up having to change damn near the whole thing.
Have you ever watched B:TAS. It's just Batman. No other DC shit intrudes in on it. Did you watch the Superman live action show I watched when I was a kid? It was just Superman with no Green Lanterns or Batmans or Wonder Womans. There's no reason a comic can't be the same way.
Bringing in all the rest of that universe stuff is a conscious decision by the writer. There's no law that says they must do it. They choose to do it. If Mark Millar, author of Red Son, had shown some restraint, it could have been the greatness. Or maybe the editors made him do it. Who knows?
Ummmm... Yea, actually they kinda did when they made a contract that only included batman characters. Whoever made the Batman: TAS only bought the rights to make a batman cartoon. The studio did not buy the rights to get all the other non-batman characters involved... So really there was a law. :-p
It's kinda like how now, Marvel is making their own movies and then selling them to distributors, this makes it so they can do all the crossovers they want without worrying who they sold the rights to.
Ummmm... Yea, actually they kinda did when they made a contract that only included batman characters. Whoever made the Batman: TAS only bought the rights to make a batman cartoon. The studio did not buy the rights to get all the other non-batman characters involved... So really there was a law. :-p
It's kinda like how now, Marvel is making their own movies and then selling them to distributors, this makes it so they can do all the crossovers they want without worrying who they sold the rights to.
The New Batman Adventures, which followed B:TAS, had several crossover characters including an episode with Supergirl and Livewire. It was still pretty good overall.
Have you ever watched B:TAS. It's just Batman. No other DC shit intrudes in on it.
Yep, I have, and I love the show, but that's not a comic. It's a comic Property, but it's not a comic - and you do realize that there are plenty of Other DCU characters in B:TAS? Zatanna, Zatara, Jonah Hex, Phantasm, Clock King, Nightwing(Grayson was Robin for a time, but Grayson-as-Nightwing is a seperate book, and it came out while the series was still being produced, and if I remember right, before nightwing appeared in the series), Count Vertigo? No? Didn't think so. And they crammed every character they could from the Batman series in there, as well as inventing a few extras.
Did you watch the Superman live action show I watched when I was a kid?
With Dean Cain? Yeah, That was cool, I liked it, even if it was to superman like you are to Rym - Close, and similar in places, but not really the same person down to the ground. And even then, it was from a time where the interconnected universe was only just starting to take shape, if it wasn't still a few years off.
Either way, it was much better than Smallville, the one from around the same time period as Red Son, which is all Superman.
Oh, and Isis, The Flash, Stargirl, Hawkman, Dr Fate, Star-Spangled Kid, Sandman, The Atom, Spectre, Hawkgirl, Hourman, Dr Mid-nite, Black Canary, Mr Terrific, Green Lantern, The Flash(A different one), wildcat, Aquaman, Deadshot, Speedy(The Mia Dearden one), Warp, Hawkgirl, Red Tornado, Isis(In A different body), Rick Flag, Green Arrow, Mera, Silver Banshee, Maxima, Another Icicle, Maxwell Lord, Martian Manhunter, Zan and Jayna(That's right, They even bought in characters from SuperFriends, Because I think they were running the fuck out of Characters from the comics, unless they wanted a Marvel Crossover), Plastique, Santa Claus(Not joking, they actually had Santa in there), Roulette, Cyborg, Amanda Waller, Zatanna, Zatara.
(No from memory here, that's according to the wiki. Fuck smallville. It's utter shite, I just find it unwatchable, even before they dragged in everyone and your mum)
Bringing in all the rest of that universe stuff is a conscious decision by the writer. There's no law that says they must do it. They choose to do it. If Mark Millar, author of Red Son, had shown some restraint, it could have been the greatness. Or maybe the editors made him do it. Who knows?
Except, the problem is, it's all interconnected now. Just say, out of nowhere, you delete superman from the DCU. He's gone. That will change the ENTIRE DCU, because he's such a big part of it. The Justice Leage Never happens, the Team Superman is gone, every event caused by superman never happens, and every problem fixed by him is unsolved. Essentially, the entire DCU collapses upon itself.
As For Millar showing some restraint - He brought over seven Characters from the Main universe, four of which are famous for playing the same hero identity, the Green Lantern - Though I'll admit, Green Lantern Marine Corp was a pretty cheap joke. If you look at Smallville, up there, we've got forty - not counting Santa Claus. B:TAS, which has only Batman and No other DCU shit, has seven. So, For a Book where Mark Millar showed some restraint, that puts him exactly equal with a series that had no other DC shit intruding on it.
And hey, just be thankful that you didn't get Power girl - AKA, Generic Superhero as portrayed by an enormous pair of breasts. Jesus, talk about most common superpower.
DMZ's pretty good. Writing can be a bit shoddy at times, but it's overall a fun time.
Brian Wood can be a massive douche though. One time a comic fan got on a comic forum to say that he couldn't get Warren Ellis's work where he lives, so he was pirating it and loving it. Ellis made an account to personally thank the fan for supporting him by reading his work, and to say that he supported comic piracy as long as people did it to see if they wanted to buy the series or to support the work because they couldn't obtain it for one reason or another (poor college students, people in foreign countries, etc). Brian Wood then made an account so he could bitch Warren Ellis out personally and publicly and say that comic book and manga piracy is never acceptable for any reason.
Warren Ellis is also renowned for visiting /co/ with a tripcode when the people there were talking about his 13-year old daughter being hot in a thread. He then proceeded to threaten each and every one of them with a slow, painful death.
Haha, Warren Ellis is brilliant. I didn't know anything about Brian Wood outside of his work, but it really puts into perspective the fact that I bought (for over $100) ALL of Transmet, and pirated DMZ.
Haha, Warren Ellis is brilliant. I didn't know anything about Brian Wood outside of his work, but it really puts into perspective the fact that I bought (for over $100) ALL of Transmet, and pirated DMZ.
good man. Man knowing transmet is from the 90's really makes it seem so much older than I thought when I heard 420chan boasting about it last year.
Ummmm... Yea, actually they kinda did when they made a contract that only included batman characters. Whoever made the Batman: TAS only bought the rights to make a batman cartoon. The studio did not buy the rights to get all the other non-batman characters involved... So really there was a law. :-p
It's kinda like how now, Marvel is making their own movies and then selling them to distributors, this makes it so they can do all the crossovers they want without worrying who they sold the rights to.
O
I still thin the Batman: TAS argument is a good one. You could argue that when scoping out the show, the creators decided to only negotiate for the rights to make a Batman show. Nobody was stopping them for negotiating for the entire DC universe rights in their contract unless they simply couldn't financially support such a decision. Still, whether it was willful or forced restraint, the restraint created a great product that one can point to.
I still thin the Batman: TAS argument is a good one. You could argue that when scoping out the show, the creators decided to only negotiate for the rites to make a Batman show. Nobody was stopping them for negotiating for the entire DC universe rights in their contract unless they simply couldn't financially support such a decision. Still, whether it was willful or forced restraint, the restraint created a great product that one can point to.
Except, this is wrong. It exactly equals Red Son on the "Other DCU heroes" chart, at seven - with all of those seven existing simultaneously, and not, as is the case with green lanterns, existing sequentially, as a title passed around like a joint in at a drum circle. It's great, don't get me wrong here, it's just that it's illogical to say that one work needs restraint on the number of characters from the rest of the DCU, while the other with the same amount of characters is an example of showing restraint on tossing in heroes.
Alrighty, Here's some comics news that'll get at least someone interested - From the BOOM! studios press release -
This May BOOM! Studios brings you two legendary Duck artists for two classic Duck stories never before collected together: UNCLE SCROOGE: THE MYSTERIOUS STONE RAY & CASH FLOW! Join in the fun as BOOM! Studios presents two timeless UNCLE SCROOGE adventures by renowned Disney Comics creators Carl Barks and Don Rosa in this one-of-a-kind squarebound prestige edition! This amazing one-shot will not be collected in the future so, UNCLE SCROOGE fans, be sure to reserve your copy today of UNCLE SCROOGE: THE MYSTERIOUS STONE RAY & CASH FLOW!
“Duck fans demanded it and BOOM! delivers.†says BOOM! Studios Marketing Director Chip Mosher. “We’re bringing Carl Barks and Don Rosa, two of the greatest and most sought after UNCLE SCROOGE artists together like never before. These two classic Duck tales have never been published together and will not be collected in the future. So be sure to grab your copy before it’s gone!â€Â
UNCLE SCROOGE: THE MYSTERIOUS STONE RAY & CASH FLOW is a Carl Barks/Don Rosa UNCLE SCROOGE double feature! First up is Barks’ “The Mysterious Stone Ray,†which takes Scrooge on an ocean voyage for his health, where he ends up discovering an island full of petrified Beagle Boys…and the spindly scientist who made them that way! Then, back in Duckburg, Rosa’s “Cash Flow!†details another Beagle plot as they plan to literally liquidate all of Scrooge’s assets.
Yep, that's right - BOOM! are reprinting Banks and Rosa Scrooge comics.
Also, If I remember rightly, they have the "Crisis on Infinite Darkwings" Darkwing Duck Trade coming out this April.
All-Star Superman: It's the Superman story you show people who think that you can't tell a good story involving Superman, followed up by delivering crushing disappointment when you tell them there is nothing else primarily about Superman that is any good.
Casanova: So good but I would only recommend it if you can find the original two colour floppy issues with the back matter (the four colour reprints have different back matter in the form of interviews the author does with some guys and trade paperbacks don't include any at all). The good thing is that it had a cover price of $2 an ish and there are only 14 issues so far so in theory you can get the whole run for less than $30. Invincible: Underwear perversion done right.
Alan Moore Comics: As far as I'm concerned you can't go wrong with any of the following: From Hell, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Leage of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Top 10.
Preacher: This comic blew my socks off when I was in my teens and early twenties. YMMV if you are a growm'up. This and Garth Ennis' run on the Punisher is was got me into comics (as well as serving as evidence that I am probably a bad person). Next Wave: Because Next Wave.
I just picked up this comic I'd never heard of called "The Witching Hour" written by Jeph Loeb and drawn by Chris Bachalo. I saw it. I saw Virtigo on the cover. I trust Jeph Loeb. I conquered.
Comments
It kind of reminds me of my experience with the single player of Call of Duty: Modern Warfare 2, where in the moment to moment playing of the game the story was really cool, engaging and energizing, but then when I thought back on the story at all it didn't really make any logical sense and wasn't really fulfilling at all as a narrative. That's sort of what I think of Sixth Gun, while reading it it was really cool but looking back on it now I'm not sure if I really like it. Certainly the way it ends feels like it should just have ended there, it feels complete, and that it doesn't bothers me (even though I haven't read anything but this first trade paperback.)
See, a lot of people shit on Superhero comics, but there is a hell of a lot of good stuff out there.
Just from DC worth the read: The Sandman, Fables, Superman for All seasons, Superman: Red Son, Batman: Arkham Asylum(A serious house on Serious Earth), Batman: Hush, JLA: Identity Crisis, Hellblazer, Ex Machina, and that's only what comes to mind immediately.
Other Superhero titles worth a read: The Essential Spiderman, Howard the Duck, Spiderman: Brand New Day, Plastic Man, Shazam, Starman omnibus, The Marvel Civil War storyline, Jack Kirby's New Gods, JOKER, Runaways: Dead end Kids, Black Summer, The 2009 Spider-Woman Run, Batman and Robin from the Batman: Reborn series, S.W.O.R.D., Agents of ATLAS, Captain Britain & MI-13, WANTED, Animal Man, Preacher, Invincible, Miracleman, Love and Rockets, Saga of the Swamp thing.
And I'm probably forgetting a good dozen, at least.
Thus, you end up with a cavalcade of heroes - Even just if you kept it with things superman is explicitly involved in, you have Team Superman, the Justice leauges, the Legion of Superheros(Which on it's own can be dozens of superheros), Batman and the Bat-family. The whole universe is so heavily interconnected that if you change one thing, you end up having to change damn near the whole thing.
It's either heroes for ten on the penny, or you have to ignore a massive amount of the universe, and most of the time, they go with the former rather than the latter - It's not about the fanboys, to be honest, they're barely even a consideration, if you look at the overall universe.
It's a case of that DC has gone so strongly from individual books over to one unified universe with books that change the focus to a particular hero with other heroes in the background, and thus, by changing a character, particularly a main character like superman, is like taking out a card from a house of the same - the entire structure rapidly changes, and they try to show that - which is sometimes a mistake.
That said, there are some very good Elseworlds stories, and larger universe stories, which do involve large amounts of characters, and don't suffer for it - I think that Red Son only really suffers for it minorly, they don't stretch it too far - Outside of Explicitly superman series mainstays, they only have Wonder Woman, Batman, and the four Earth Green Lanterns. Also, the Batman stories in the Elseworlds universe tend to keep it a lot more simple on the "cavalcade of heroes" deal, I think because Batman tends to keep within the Bat-family, if even that, rather than hanging and chilling with every hero in the 'verse like superman does.
Bringing in all the rest of that universe stuff is a conscious decision by the writer. There's no law that says they must do it. They choose to do it. If Mark Millar, author of Red Son, had shown some restraint, it could have been the greatness. Or maybe the editors made him do it. Who knows?
It's kinda like how now, Marvel is making their own movies and then selling them to distributors, this makes it so they can do all the crossovers they want without worrying who they sold the rights to.
Either way, it was much better than Smallville, the one from around the same time period as Red Son, which is all Superman.
Oh, and Isis, The Flash, Stargirl, Hawkman, Dr Fate, Star-Spangled Kid, Sandman, The Atom, Spectre, Hawkgirl, Hourman, Dr Mid-nite, Black Canary, Mr Terrific, Green Lantern, The Flash(A different one), wildcat, Aquaman, Deadshot, Speedy(The Mia Dearden one), Warp, Hawkgirl, Red Tornado, Isis(In A different body), Rick Flag, Green Arrow, Mera, Silver Banshee, Maxima, Another Icicle, Maxwell Lord, Martian Manhunter, Zan and Jayna(That's right, They even bought in characters from SuperFriends, Because I think they were running the fuck out of Characters from the comics, unless they wanted a Marvel Crossover), Plastique, Santa Claus(Not joking, they actually had Santa in there), Roulette, Cyborg, Amanda Waller, Zatanna, Zatara.
(No from memory here, that's according to the wiki. Fuck smallville. It's utter shite, I just find it unwatchable, even before they dragged in everyone and your mum) Except, the problem is, it's all interconnected now. Just say, out of nowhere, you delete superman from the DCU. He's gone. That will change the ENTIRE DCU, because he's such a big part of it. The Justice Leage Never happens, the Team Superman is gone, every event caused by superman never happens, and every problem fixed by him is unsolved. Essentially, the entire DCU collapses upon itself.
As For Millar showing some restraint - He brought over seven Characters from the Main universe, four of which are famous for playing the same hero identity, the Green Lantern - Though I'll admit, Green Lantern Marine Corp was a pretty cheap joke. If you look at Smallville, up there, we've got forty - not counting Santa Claus. B:TAS, which has only Batman and No other DCU shit, has seven. So, For a Book where Mark Millar showed some restraint, that puts him exactly equal with a series that had no other DC shit intruding on it.
And hey, just be thankful that you didn't get Power girl - AKA, Generic Superhero as portrayed by an enormous pair of breasts. Jesus, talk about most common superpower.
Vic and Blood
Wilson
Superman All star
Johnny Cash Bio
Anything Punisher ( i guess thats only me)
Get fuzzy
Blueberry
Brian Wood can be a massive douche though. One time a comic fan got on a comic forum to say that he couldn't get Warren Ellis's work where he lives, so he was pirating it and loving it. Ellis made an account to personally thank the fan for supporting him by reading his work, and to say that he supported comic piracy as long as people did it to see if they wanted to buy the series or to support the work because they couldn't obtain it for one reason or another (poor college students, people in foreign countries, etc). Brian Wood then made an account so he could bitch Warren Ellis out personally and publicly and say that comic book and manga piracy is never acceptable for any reason.
Warren Ellis is also renowned for visiting /co/ with a tripcode when the people there were talking about his 13-year old daughter being hot in a thread. He then proceeded to threaten each and every one of them with a slow, painful death.
It's great, don't get me wrong here, it's just that it's illogical to say that one work needs restraint on the number of characters from the rest of the DCU, while the other with the same amount of characters is an example of showing restraint on tossing in heroes.
Also, If I remember rightly, they have the "Crisis on Infinite Darkwings" Darkwing Duck Trade coming out this April.
Casanova: So good but I would only recommend it if you can find the original two colour floppy issues with the back matter (the four colour reprints have different back matter in the form of interviews the author does with some guys and trade paperbacks don't include any at all). The good thing is that it had a cover price of $2 an ish and there are only 14 issues so far so in theory you can get the whole run for less than $30.
Invincible: Underwear perversion done right.
Alan Moore Comics: As far as I'm concerned you can't go wrong with any of the following: From Hell, Watchmen, V for Vendetta, Leage of Extraordinary Gentlemen, Top 10.
Preacher: This comic blew my socks off when I was in my teens and early twenties. YMMV if you are a growm'up. This and Garth Ennis' run on the Punisher is was got me into comics (as well as serving as evidence that I am probably a bad person).
Next Wave: Because Next Wave.