Daru. Dude served no purpose but to McGuffin the McGuffin. Narratively, everything he did could've just been done by Mad Scientist Kyouma with no change but the removal of a terrible character.
Are you crazy? That'd make HOUOUIN KYOUUUUMA actually competent at something instead of just claiming to be amazing. Are you seriously suggesting that?
People who thought they were watching an anime, not a Best of The Visual Novel montage.
And anime doesn't have unsatisfying side plots? That's the first time I've read something like that being suggested.
Now, I don't even know how to approach this comment. Care to elaborate?
From what I recall, the anime didn't really bother to do more than a simple nod towards the few side plots it didn't fold into the main story. It spends an episode to make a nod at it, but they're mostly there to muck up the timeline more. Just there to be plot devices, and some 'comedy'. Mind, it's been two years since I saw the show, so I may have forgotten the small things you specifically were troubled with.
See, I got that all that shit was the objective, but I never got that it was called Steins;Gate. I figured that it wasn't important, because I didn't even ask that question until the last episode.
The whole naming of the Steins;Gate, and I don't remember exactly what it was supposed to be, to me was nothing more than Kyouma (not Okarin) needing a goal/focal point. It made sense to him to name it Steins;Gate, so that's what he did.
I do like the Paranoid Schizophrenic take on things.
It does make for a better character than the one that I thought was there.
Question. What did you think there was? It sounds like you've completely missed the whole fucking point of the character.
Holy shit, shin sekai Yori is amazing, holy shit. Holy shit, holy shit, holy shit. I can't stop watching this show. Every episode is so interesting and gripping and it just gets better and better and better. I'm thoroughly enjoying this anime. I can't wait to see the story close and see what happens to all the characters. I'm so excited.
Silver Spoon is everything I look for in an anime. Yeah, the humor is pretty ho-hum but the characters are enjoyable and actually get development!
On another note, I love how Rym and Scott's "Judge an anime by its cover" is turning out. I gave Sunday without God the three episode test and am still wrapping my head around how poorly written that show is. I really don't understand how a writer fail so hard. If you ever have a group of friends together to watch a bad show together, consider Sunday.
I just watched K-ON! and it was great. I tried to watch Mitsudomoe but the first episode was so terrible that I deleted it immediately. I'm now watching Hanamaru Kindergarten which is charming, funny, and enjoyable.
Better to watch original Japanese Yamato with subtitles than to watch Star Blazers.
yep, that was a little hard to find, and refreshingly different. The Yamato live action movie was the shit! We all liked it a lot. Check this out: Ghibli Backgrounds by Kazuo Oga with great piano soundtrack of the movie themes! Great "Thing of the day", methinks.
Watched all of Aim for the Top: Gunbuster, three eps of Combattler V and The first OAV of Legend of the Overfiend.
Gunbuster is still a fascinating anime. The issues raised by time dilation of high speed space flight are probably the most interesting part of the whole show. It's an issue I am surprised more shows don't try and deal with. As for the rest of the plot, pretty typical 80's mecha faire lots of awesome space battles and in typical early Gainax fashion a slide show in the final eps's battle due to budget issues.
Combattler V was also interesting, I'm always struck by how many people die in these shows oriented towards kids. The monsters are actually pretty scary looking and the action not bad for 70's giant robots.
Legend of the Overfiend, I watched this because I couldn't decide what 80's action show to watch so I figured I'd try some 80's action :-p
Started Watamote. It's alright, but I'll like it more during the school year. Gonna wait until November or December to watch the rest of it.
I'll be honest - I actually have a serious dislike for Watamote. I won't say much else I'll go on forever, but in short - it's a very uncomfortable series to read, but not for the reasons the Author intends. And I certainly don't mean that as a compliment of any sort.
Started Watamote. It's alright, but I'll like it more during the school year. Gonna wait until November or December to watch the rest of it.
I'll be honest - I actually have a serious dislike for Watamote. I won't say much else I'll go on forever, but in short - it's a very uncomfortable series to read, but not for the reasons the Author intends. And I certainly don't mean that as a compliment of any sort.
You mean it's not uncomfortable because the main character is perverted, awkward, and introverted?
You mean it's not uncomfortable because the main character is perverted, awkward, and introverted?
No. It's uncomfortable because it's basically the most mean-spirited, cruel, and fucking vile media property I've seen of late, if not ever.
It's basically just "Point at laugh at the girl who has such severe social anxiety that she's clearly mentally ill, as she tries her best to help herself and get better, but always fails."
Every single laugh you're meant to get from the show is about her emotional pain and suffering, and her Mental anguish. The every-day torture she goes through just trying to be a person is served up to us as a high-larious comedy to point and laugh at. This is just reveling in what amounts to the mental torture of someone with a pretty severe psychological disorder, nothing more, nothing less.
You mean it's not uncomfortable because the main character is perverted, awkward, and introverted?
No. It's uncomfortable because it's basically the most mean-spirited, cruel, nasty media property I've seen of late. It's basically just "Point at laugh at the girl who has such severe social anxiety that she's clearly mentally ill, as she tries her best to help herself and get better, but always fails."
Yeah, see, in the show it comes across more as "remember being the girl who has such severe social anxiety that everyone thinks she's mentally ill?"
Yeah, see, in the show it comes across more as "remember being the girl who has such severe social anxiety that everyone thinks she's mentally ill?"
Well, except for the part where she pretty clearly is.
I mean, we're not talking about "she's a bit odd", we're talking about "She realizes that a particular interaction is the first time she's talked to someone for two months, and she runs away in stark terror(and joy)." Or "She's too afraid of talking to people and too wrapped up in her own head to borrow a textbook, so gets chewed out by a teacher till she cries." Or "Threatens to kill herself just to get her brother to listen to her request to talk her for an hour a day - which he then doesn't fucking do, because he thinks she's annoying."
Yes, We all remember being that person.
I don't doubt that some people - many, in fact - identify with her because she's socially awkward, but to me that just comes off like people saying they understand and identify with a beggar with their legs off, because they stubbed their toe really hard once.
She is the person in school that even those of us who were nerds/geeks felt was odd, and you might not want to talk to. She's at the deep end. I identify with her to a point, and that point it way back from where Tomako is in this series.
I don't feel like she's the person you point and laugh at all the time. Sometimes I feel sad for her, sometimes I cheer her on, and sometimes I do laugh at her, because it's dark, loathsome comedy.
It could be depicted differently in the manga. I wouldn't know.
It could be depicted differently in the manga. I wouldn't know.
To be clear - I've read it and watched it. They're both about the same. The manga is maybe a little better, but not much.
I don't feel like she's the person you point and laugh at all the time. Sometimes I feel sad for her, sometimes I cheer her on, and sometimes I do laugh at her, because it's dark, loathsome comedy.
That's the thing - This isn't Dark comedy. M*A*S*H is dark comedy. Dr Strangelove is dark comedy. Lenny Bruce was dark comedy.
This isn't dark comedy, it's plain mockery. Your laughs are not gallows humor, though they are making fun of a serious situation, the laughs are because this person is so fundamentally damaged that they can't function in society, and how that hurts them. It's constructed very specifically so that you're laughing at her and her illness, because she's an extreme to you, and it seems incongruous or surreal about how fucked up she is and how that affects situations. You're not meant to empathize, you're meant to laugh and feel better about yourself, because except in a small few edge cases, you might thought you were bad, but you weren't THAT bad.
Don't get me wrong, this could have been done well. You can put a person like this in situations that are comedic, and where their illness has a role to play - but this isn't that. There's no sympathy or caring here. This isn't this person in situations that are comedic(mostly, to be fair, there are a few), this is purely laughing at her being very ill in completely normal situations.
I mean, like what y'all like, I won't stop you and don't think less of you for it, and you doubtless see it differently - But I see it the way I see it, and enjoying the mockery of someone who is mentally ill and hurting just isn't my style.
I just plain don't agree. Who is mocking her? Most characters in the show don't make fun of her. It's a show where the protagonist is in conflict with herself, and you hope that she does accomplish what aims to do for that episode.
Here. Maybe you have read this. It argues much of your point of view. In fact, some of your previous statements reminded me of it.
I just plain don't agree. Who is mocking her? Most characters in the show don't make fun of her. It's a show where the protagonist is in conflict with herself, and you hope that she does accomplish what aims to do for that episode.
It's not the people in the show, it's the show itself. The people in the show act how they do - mostly normally to provide contrast to her unusual behavior - but the show itself is going "Haha, look how horribly damaged she is, isn't that funny?"
That said, I think this is just a case were we can't agree. Nothing wrong with that, and of course, it's just a matter of completely subjective opinion, so it's no big.
Here. Maybe you have read this. It argues much of your point of view. In fact, some of your previous statements reminded me of it.
I haven't, no. I don't really read Kotaku, there's better video game news sites out there that aren't owned by Gawker. I just skim the headlines sometimes for things that catch my eye, and I must have missed this. It's interesting. I would say "It's interesting", but really I'd be meaning "It's nice to find out that someone agrees with my point of view on this" - so that's pretty much what I'll say about it. It even has some really interesting comments. For example, someone points out the difference between this and other shows focused on similar topics, like "Welcome to the NHK" - which was also uncomfortable to watch, but in a very different way.
WTTNHK is uncomfortable because it's well written and genuinely hard to watch the main characters struggle against themselves in a similar way to Watamote, but the difference is that it's presented as a positive struggle and it's - to quote the comment in question - "Goodhearted", something that doesn't feature in Watamote's style of "LOL Isn't she just a broken little bird? ROFL she can't even talk to people."
Not that it justifies reading many of the comments, though, there are a few standouts, surrounded by comments of the standard level of quality for internet comment sections on popular blogs.
It's not the people in the show, it's the show itself. The people in the show act how they do - mostly normally to provide contrast to her unusual behavior - but the show itself is going "Haha, look how horribly damaged she is, isn't that funny?"
How so? I want to hear you out, but you've been saying very general things. It makes me think that Watamote is a rorschach test of sorts, where whether you view it as cruel or supportive is indicative of how awkward you were in middle school. If you could refer to some specific examples of this tone, I'd be glad to listen.
How so? I want to hear you out, but you've been saying very general things. It makes me think that Watamote is a rorschach test of sorts, where whether you view it as cruel or supportive is indicative of how awkward you were in middle school. If you could refer to some specific examples of this tone, I'd be glad to listen.
Go back two posts to the examples I used, which are presented for laughs. Those are not very general, they're specifically things that happen in the show.
Also, To openly swipe two from the linked article since it's 1:30 am and I'm both tired and lazy, the scene where she thinks she's getting molested on the train, and the part where she's ordering from maccas, and the fact that it's her greatest social achievement up to that point is presented as a joke.
The article tidily also provides an example of how the show occasionally does it RIGHT, too - "There has been, to be fair, one laugh-worthy part in the show to date. Feeling depressed, she buys a boys love game and by chance wins third prize in a raffle: a back massager. Thus she finds herself walking down the street with an erotic game in one hand and what looks like a vibrator in the other. This (unlike all the previous examples) is funny. It is a sight gag based on bad luck, nothing more. Her social anxiety has nothing to do with this situation. She is not the butt of the joke."
And that's the point. The show revolves around her being the butt of every joke - if you haven't noticed that much, then I'm not even sure you're watching the show. In my view, that's not acceptable, because she's the butt of every joke because she's essentially mentally ill.
Here's a test - change up her pretty clear and definitely crippling social anxiety disorder with severe depression, or schizophrenia, or down's syndrome, or maybe a physical disability. Would watching that show with a different illness make you feel shitty, or make you uncomfortable, or make you think "That's not okay"? It's not perfect, but it starts to capture how I feel about this show.
Edit: Another point of comparison between this show and "Welcome to the NHK" that's related more to the writing quality, but also points to the same issue - WTTNHK, the characters change and improve over time. They struggle and fail, but they also grow and change. In Watamote, Tamoko does not, will not, and really can not change, especially not in any really positive way, because if she does, the show falls apart. If she does get better, if she does get popular - or even just ends up somewhere approaching normal - then the show has nothing left to do, nowhere to go and no jokes left to tell. And it can't be much if an ending point, either, without fundamentally changing the show, because the more "normal" she gets(for lack of a better term), the less grist the show has for the mill - so if you went down that path now, it gets very boring, very fast.
I still don't see how that makes her the butt of the joke. I mean, yeah, she's ill, but the show is sympathetic towards her illness. I don't see why she can't get better either. Obviously it would have to be the end of the show, but . I can't compare it to WTTNHK, since I haven't watched that, but I could see it going in the direction of a Princess Jellyfish -- where the humor becomes Tamoko's attempts to get better. Perhaps your knowledge of the manga makes it clear that this is not going to happen, but from the first few episodes of the anime it was not.
Also, I would watch the shit out of Watamote with skizo.
Comments
The next two will happen after we've recovered.
On another note, I love how Rym and Scott's "Judge an anime by its cover" is turning out. I gave Sunday without God the three episode test and am still wrapping my head around how poorly written that show is. I really don't understand how a writer fail so hard. If you ever have a group of friends together to watch a bad show together, consider Sunday.
Gunbuster is still a fascinating anime. The issues raised by time dilation of high speed space flight are probably the most interesting part of the whole show. It's an issue I am surprised more shows don't try and deal with. As for the rest of the plot, pretty typical 80's mecha faire lots of awesome space battles and in typical early Gainax fashion a slide show in the final eps's battle due to budget issues.
Combattler V was also interesting, I'm always struck by how many people die in these shows oriented towards kids. The monsters are actually pretty scary looking and the action not bad for 70's giant robots.
Legend of the Overfiend, I watched this because I couldn't decide what 80's action show to watch so I figured I'd try some 80's action :-p
It's basically just "Point at laugh at the girl who has such severe social anxiety that she's clearly mentally ill, as she tries her best to help herself and get better, but always fails."
Every single laugh you're meant to get from the show is about her emotional pain and suffering, and her Mental anguish. The every-day torture she goes through just trying to be a person is served up to us as a high-larious comedy to point and laugh at. This is just reveling in what amounts to the mental torture of someone with a pretty severe psychological disorder, nothing more, nothing less.
I mean, we're not talking about "she's a bit odd", we're talking about "She realizes that a particular interaction is the first time she's talked to someone for two months, and she runs away in stark terror(and joy)." Or "She's too afraid of talking to people and too wrapped up in her own head to borrow a textbook, so gets chewed out by a teacher till she cries." Or "Threatens to kill herself just to get her brother to listen to her request to talk her for an hour a day - which he then doesn't fucking do, because he thinks she's annoying."
Yes, We all remember being that person.
I don't doubt that some people - many, in fact - identify with her because she's socially awkward, but to me that just comes off like people saying they understand and identify with a beggar with their legs off, because they stubbed their toe really hard once.
I don't feel like she's the person you point and laugh at all the time. Sometimes I feel sad for her, sometimes I cheer her on, and sometimes I do laugh at her, because it's dark, loathsome comedy.
It could be depicted differently in the manga. I wouldn't know.
This isn't dark comedy, it's plain mockery. Your laughs are not gallows humor, though they are making fun of a serious situation, the laughs are because this person is so fundamentally damaged that they can't function in society, and how that hurts them. It's constructed very specifically so that you're laughing at her and her illness, because she's an extreme to you, and it seems incongruous or surreal about how fucked up she is and how that affects situations. You're not meant to empathize, you're meant to laugh and feel better about yourself, because except in a small few edge cases, you might thought you were bad, but you weren't THAT bad.
Don't get me wrong, this could have been done well. You can put a person like this in situations that are comedic, and where their illness has a role to play - but this isn't that. There's no sympathy or caring here. This isn't this person in situations that are comedic(mostly, to be fair, there are a few), this is purely laughing at her being very ill in completely normal situations.
I mean, like what y'all like, I won't stop you and don't think less of you for it, and you doubtless see it differently - But I see it the way I see it, and enjoying the mockery of someone who is mentally ill and hurting just isn't my style.
Here. Maybe you have read this. It argues much of your point of view. In fact, some of your previous statements reminded me of it.
http://kotaku.com/the-most-mean-spirited-anime-i-have-ever-watched-1169146244
That said, I think this is just a case were we can't agree. Nothing wrong with that, and of course, it's just a matter of completely subjective opinion, so it's no big. I haven't, no. I don't really read Kotaku, there's better video game news sites out there that aren't owned by Gawker. I just skim the headlines sometimes for things that catch my eye, and I must have missed this. It's interesting. I would say "It's interesting", but really I'd be meaning "It's nice to find out that someone agrees with my point of view on this" - so that's pretty much what I'll say about it. It even has some really interesting comments. For example, someone points out the difference between this and other shows focused on similar topics, like "Welcome to the NHK" - which was also uncomfortable to watch, but in a very different way.
WTTNHK is uncomfortable because it's well written and genuinely hard to watch the main characters struggle against themselves in a similar way to Watamote, but the difference is that it's presented as a positive struggle and it's - to quote the comment in question - "Goodhearted", something that doesn't feature in Watamote's style of "LOL Isn't she just a broken little bird? ROFL she can't even talk to people."
Not that it justifies reading many of the comments, though, there are a few standouts, surrounded by comments of the standard level of quality for internet comment sections on popular blogs.
Also, To openly swipe two from the linked article since it's 1:30 am and I'm both tired and lazy, the scene where she thinks she's getting molested on the train, and the part where she's ordering from maccas, and the fact that it's her greatest social achievement up to that point is presented as a joke.
The article tidily also provides an example of how the show occasionally does it RIGHT, too - "There has been, to be fair, one laugh-worthy part in the show to date. Feeling depressed, she buys a boys love game and by chance wins third prize in a raffle: a back massager. Thus she finds herself walking down the street with an erotic game in one hand and what looks like a vibrator in the other. This (unlike all the previous examples) is funny. It is a sight gag based on bad luck, nothing more. Her social anxiety has nothing to do with this situation. She is not the butt of the joke."
And that's the point. The show revolves around her being the butt of every joke - if you haven't noticed that much, then I'm not even sure you're watching the show. In my view, that's not acceptable, because she's the butt of every joke because she's essentially mentally ill.
Here's a test - change up her pretty clear and definitely crippling social anxiety disorder with severe depression, or schizophrenia, or down's syndrome, or maybe a physical disability. Would watching that show with a different illness make you feel shitty, or make you uncomfortable, or make you think "That's not okay"? It's not perfect, but it starts to capture how I feel about this show.
Edit: Another point of comparison between this show and "Welcome to the NHK" that's related more to the writing quality, but also points to the same issue - WTTNHK, the characters change and improve over time. They struggle and fail, but they also grow and change. In Watamote, Tamoko does not, will not, and really can not change, especially not in any really positive way, because if she does, the show falls apart. If she does get better, if she does get popular - or even just ends up somewhere approaching normal - then the show has nothing left to do, nowhere to go and no jokes left to tell. And it can't be much if an ending point, either, without fundamentally changing the show, because the more "normal" she gets(for lack of a better term), the less grist the show has for the mill - so if you went down that path now, it gets very boring, very fast.
Also, I would watch the shit out of Watamote with skizo.