A cat should just be able to walk outside whenever it wants.
Actually, around here, the ASPCA recommends not letting cats outside, due to damage to songbird and wildlife populations, infectious diseases, and heavy traffic. They get beaten up by other territorial cats and have to get stitches. Most of the city cats I know are well adjusted and chill, despite not being allowed out on the mean streets of New York. Did you know a housebound cat has a longer life expectancy than a cat that is kept mostly outside?
I think the ideal situation for a suburban cat (I'm not talking about rural barn/house cats who live in the middle of nowhere) is to treat it like I do my rabbit. Let it go outside on nice days, but supervise it.
I'm with you as far as declawing, though. It seems kind of mean, like removing the tips of someone's fingers. Just grit your teeth and pad the sides of the couch. It may look ugly, but oh well. My dining room is filled with cardboard and plywood to entice the rabbit away from chewing the furniture. Same principle.
The ASPCA are nutcases who cause the ruin of cats! *serious stare*
due to damage to songbird and wildlife populations
It's nature, so what? Hell, some cats, like ours, even brings birds (and mice) back alive to show she caught something, and then continues to play with it. Last critter was a sparrow, mom freaked out, bird flew away alive.
infectious diseases
Such happens, it's a housecat for crying out loud. Keeping it captive just because it might catch a disease is horrible. You can just give it a shot and it will get better.
heavy traffic
Cats aren't stupid, sure, every once in a while one ends up under the wheels of a vehicle, but most of the time nothing happens.
They get beaten up by other territorial cats and have to get stitches
We've had many cats and lived in many neighbourhoods where many other cats, both territorial and not, lived. One of our cats is very territorial himself, he always went out and got in fights, wooptidoo, so he had a few scratches and wounds. Never needed stitches. My cat was a wuss, an adorably fuzzy wuss. He lived in the same neighbourhoods but never got into fights. Cats aren't stupid. Some will come home with some minor wounds, others will just stay out of territorial fights.
Did you know a housebound cat has a longer life expectancy than a cat that is kept mostly outside?
Like anything held in captivity? NO WAI! That's such a shocker, so unexpected. I would've never guessed.
I think the ideal situation for a suburban cat (I'm not talking about rural barn/house cats who live in the middle of nowhere) is to treat it like I do my rabbit. Let it go outside on nice days, but supervise it.
Rabbits, while cute, are extremely dumb and non-loyal critters. The majority of them won't return home if they escape, so they MUST be supervised when you let them outside of their cage. Cats only require minor supervision the first few times they go outside after moving to a different house. After that they'll be fine.
I'm with you as far as declawing, though. It seems kind of mean, like removing the tips of someone's fingers. Just grit your teeth and pad the sides of the couch. It may look ugly, but oh well. My dining room is filled with cardboard and plywood to entice the rabbit away from chewing the furniture. Same principle.
Or just make a sound and pry the nails from your skin and clothing. If you don't want it clawing you, don't let it on your lap and don't touch it, ever. As for padding the couch, we've never done that. Never had to, we just let the cats outside. They'll find a tree and scratch that.
Rabbits, while cute, are extremely dumb and non-loyal critters. The majority of them won't return home if they escape, so they MUST be supervised when you let them outside of their cage.
I take issue with this. Rabbits can be extremely smart and loyal. Apparently, if you've ever owned one, you just didn't raise it right or something. A rabbit's attitude towards people is decided almost completely on how it's handled for the first year of it's life. I have a mini-lop named Ozymandias, and we take him outside occasionally to let him run around. No leash, no fence. We're not really worried about him, because he always stays fairly close to the house and always comes back. We typically keep an eye on him because we have cats in the neighborhood, and we don't really want to know what would happen if they met.
It's nature, so what? Hell, some cats, like ours, even brings birds (and mice) back alive to show she caught something, and then continues to play with it. Last critter was a sparrow, mom freaked out, bird flew away alive.
Both my cats kill every single bird, mice, lizard that crosses their path.
Such happens, it's a housecat for crying out loud. Keeping it captive just because it might catch a disease is horrible. You can just give it a shot and it will get better.
Cats aren't stupid, sure, every once in a while one ends up under the wheels of a vehicle, but most of the time nothing happens.
We've had many cats and lived in many neighbourhoods where many other cats, both territorial and not, lived. One of our cats is very territorial himself, he always went out and got in fights, wooptidoo, so he had a few scratches and wounds. Never needed stitches. My cat was a wuss, an adorably fuzzy wuss. He lived in the same neighbourhoods but never got into fights. Cats aren't stupid. Some will come home with some minor wounds, others will just stay out of territorial fights.
My first cat (the one we let out) came home in separate occasions with a broken tail, missing teeth, scratches, wounds and missing one eye.
Or just make a sound and pry the nails from your skin and clothing. If you don't want it clawing you, don't let it on your lap and don't touch it, ever. As for padding the couch, we've never done that. Never had to, we just let the cats outside. They'll find a tree and scratch that.
I clip the tips of his nails (my current cat). We have a guava tree in our backyard and he still likes to sharpen his claws on a couple of chairs and doors.
Apparently, if you've ever owned one, you just didn't raise it right or something.
I did in fact own a rabbit, it never ran away for that matter, it was wildly in love with me (cared less for my mother and little brother) and was all around a cute little black floppy eared bunny. It was still just a dumb rabbit, cute, but dumb. As far as I've ever been able to tell, outside of being alone and living in a small box, it loved living with us. At one point we found it to be so sad that we brought him to an animal farm, so that he could live in relative freedom compared to that little box.
Do note that the terms 'dumb' and 'loyal' are used in relativity to cats.
No leash
That you even think about the concept of leashing a rabbit is monstrous. Either way, from the rest of your post you just state that you do what Gomily said, supervise, with which I totally agree. Pet rabbits, like locked up cats, are sorry little creatures who'll have a pretty hard time surviving when suddenly let go.
Both my cats kill every single bird, mice, lizard that crosses their path.
Mice aren't safe near that female cat either. It started with big mice, then she came home with smaller mice. Now there are no more mice found in the morning.
My first cat (the one we let out) came home in separate occasions with a broken tail, missing teeth, scratches, wounds and missing one eye.
It must be fighting luchadores. Even then, only the missing eye would require stitches and perhaps a few of the extremely big wounds, the tail a wooden board and the rest are just common occurrence in fights. Teeth are just lost outside of fighting anyway.
We have a guava tree in our backyard and he still likes to sharpen his claws on a couple of chairs and doors.
Did you get the cat as a kitten? Our cats either were already taught not to scratch things inside or we taught it not to scratch stuff. And even then, when locked up too long they'd go crazy and climb the drapes anyhow. The old one just can't be taught to not beg during dinner. :< Thankfully it has been worse.
Apparently, if you've ever owned one, you just didn't raise it right or something.
I did in fact own a rabbit, it never ran away for that matter, it was wildly in love with me (cared less for my mother and little brother) and was all around a cute little black floppy eared bunny. It was still just a dumb rabbit, cute, but dumb. As far as I've ever been able to tell, outside of being alone and living in a small box, it loved living with us. At one point we found it to be so sad that we brought him to an animal farm, so that he could live in relative freedom compared to that little box.
Do note that the terms 'dumb' and 'loyal' are used in relativity to cats.
No leash
That you even think about the concept of leashing a rabbit is monstrous. Either way, from the rest of your post you just state that you do what Gomily said, supervise, with which I totally agree. Pet rabbits, like locked up cats, are sorry little creatures who'll have a pretty hard time surviving when suddenly let go.
While I understand the reasoning behind keeping a rabbit in a box... I think that's part of why your rabbit was "dumb". Rabbits need to be able to get out and exercise. Ozy has pretty much free run of the downstairs of our house, and uses his cage primarily as a litter box. He's also easily the most personable and intelligent rabbit we've had. Although really, the argument is kind of moot, as intelligence varies by specific animal and while SOME rabbits may be dumber than MOST cats, it's really a case-by-case basis. There are stupid cats out there, too.
People WILL leash rabbits. It doesn't work very well, and it's rather stupid in my opinion. But I'm saying, it's out there/people do it.
As far as I've ever been able to tell, outside of being alone and living in a small box, it loved living with us.
I would argue with you that the only reason that your rabbit seemed dumb was that you kept it in a hutch! House rabbits that roam the house like cats act very different than caged rabbits. Talk about ruining animals. You are a hypocrite. You propose to let all cats wander free (and trust me, I have known both happy free roaming country cats and happy indoors city cats.) and yet you complain about the demeanor of a rabbit you kept in a box. I would not argue that cats have a slight edge on rabbits in terms of smarts (my mom said normal rabbit= dumb cat, very smart rabbits = normal cats, and smart cats=awesome.) but that is besides the point. I like rabbits as a matter of upbringing, but I have known many cats in my day. I have read up on this, and I think that letting your cat roam around the neighborhood unsupervised all the time not only causes problems for the community, depletes wildlife, and annoys neighbors, but also causes problems for the cats as well. I'm not hard line on this, and I am happy Hugs (the neighbor cat) comes over to visit, but she has gotten hurt before and eaten many song birds. You act like keeping an indoor cat is animal torture, but I'd argue that based on personal observation that it is far less detrimental to an animal's personality than confining a rabbit.
In terms of the argument that the killing of birds is "natural" think in terms of the density of predators versus prey. The distribution of cats is far greater in a small area of neighborhood than it would be, were they feral animals. I think using cats out in the country to control mice is a good idea. Likewise in a city apartment building: If you have an indoor cat, they will frighten or eat all the mice and rats that hang around.
Such happens, it's a housecat for crying out loud. Keeping it captive just because it might catch a disease is horrible. You can just give it a shot and it will get better.
There are no shots for kitty AIDS or feline leukemia, both things more common to outdoor cats.
The ASPCA are nutcases who cause the ruin of cats! *serious stare*
Also, do you even know what the ASPCA is? I'll give you a hint - It's not like PETA. What you just said was very ironic, all things considered.
Yeah, I'd be a sad puppy in Australia, with it's trouble-causing rabbit infestation and pet ban. Look on the bright side, though. You have wallabies there! Little deer rabbit marsupial things!
@ Nineless, I seriously disagree with you on allowing pet cats outdoors. If you are in a situation where your cat acts as a mouser (like on a farm) then you can have barn cats that mostly live outdoors and in the barn. Those aren't pets, though. Those are livestock. My parents always had house cats and they never went outside. Our neighbors didn't buy pets, we did. We shouldn't invade their property with a wandering cat. My parents worked hard to create a bird, bunny, squirrel and chipmunk friendly yard. To let the cat into the yard and gardens would have made a waste of that effort. We also lived near a busy road and didn't want cat pancakes. There were also ferral cats in the woods behind our house that we didn't want our cats interacting with. Cats that go in and out are much more likely to get lyme disease or get parasite infections that can be spread to the humans within the house. As long as cats have enough areas to play, stimulating toys, and owners that actively play with them, then why should they be let out of doors?
Yeah, I'd be a sad puppy in Australia, with it's trouble-causing rabbit infestation and pet ban. Look on the bright side, though. You have wallabies there! Little deer rabbit marsupial things!
Well, It's not a problem in NSW, Victoria, or South Australia - rabbits are legal, because you can barely take a step without tripping over them. But my home state, Queensland, we've managed to keep them out, and they're utterly illegal - and I'm pretty sure you're not meant to keep wallabies as pets, and either way, I couldn't be cruel enough to keep on in the suburbs, where there isn't enough room for them to hop about - a wallaby will hop at a steady 20 Kilometres an hour, they need a LOT of room.
People WILL leash rabbits. It doesn't work very well, and it's rather stupid in my opinion. But I'm saying, it's out there/people do it.
Yes, I hadn't thought about it till I read your mentioning of it. Those people are horrible. The thought it still monstrous.
while SOMEmost rabbits may beare dumber than MOST cats,
How my rabbit lived for one year with us doesn't mean jack on averages, rabbits are dumb relative to cats.
it's really a case-by-case basis. There are stupid cats out there, too.
There are stupid people out there, there are smart monkeys out there, no shit. Bell curves and deviations, learn them.
Talk about ruining animals. You are a hypocrite. You propose to let all cats wander free (and trust me, I have known both happy free roaming country cats and happy indoors city cats.) and yet you complain about the demeanor of a rabbit you kept in a box.
I was a 9 year old kid, and I let it free after a year. I'm not a hypocrite. I just didn't know better at first. When I realized it I was broken and cried much of the day, and we let him go. While I'm Dutch, you cannot expect me to be completely perfect from the get go.
You act like keeping an indoor cat is animal torture, but I'd argue that based on personal observation that it is far less detrimental to an animal's personality than confining a rabbit.
That's because in my opinion it is torture. Part of cats being cats is that they spend time outside, individually, and might even still hunt prey. Locking it up ruins that. Sure, it might still look like a cat, meow like a cat, but it acts less like a cat. For the same reason we've never taken a new rabbit, a house is too confined and dangerous for such a creature imho. I mean, they'll happily just chew through cables thinking they're roots. For that reason I look down on rabbits as pets. I won't argue that you aren't allowed to have one, I just find it sad for the rabbit. A large fenced in area would work, i.e. an animal farm or a huge backyard.
There are no shots for kitty AIDS or feline leukemia, both things more common to outdoor cats.
Never heard about either of those diseases EVER. More common, but still rare as all fuck.
Also, do you even know what the ASPCA is? I'll give you a hint - It's not like PETA. What you just said was very ironic, all things considered.
*serious stare*
That's not that hard a clue, is it?
The distribution of cats is far greater in a small area of neighborhood than it would be, were they feral animals.
At most the cats will lessen the population density of those birds in neighbourhoods with many cats, still doesn't mean much. Birds don't go all live in cat infested neighbourhoods, and then they still have to get caught by the cats, still a hard task.
The ASPCA is the American Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals. They run many shelters and were vital in getting the laws passed a over a century ago so that jerky people couldn't, say, set their dog on fire without fear of consequences. Over the years, they have saved the lives of more cats than you could count. So...STFU.
I mean, they'll happily just chew through cables thinking they're roots. For that reason I look down on rabbits as pets.
Don't be dumb. Cats chew on computer cords as well. Just bunny/cat proof the joint. I'm sorry I even brought up my rabbit as an example of pet care, because you turned it into a discussion about the relative merits of cats vs. rabbits as pets. That isn't the point. The point is you are being hyperbolic about the "damage" an indoor cat goes through. And I say, rabbit aside, you are full of shit. All the house-cats I know are quite cat-like. If you try to argue your point about allowing the animal's natural instincts to run free, why do we house-train dogs? Why should we stop cats from peeing or yell at them when they scratch the furniture? Why do they have to conform to our schedules and life-styles? Face it, domesticity isn't natural! Horses don't instinctively want to carry people on their backs, and naturally roam over miles and miles. Is owning a horse cruel?
Part of cats being cats is that they spend time outside, individually, and might even still hunt prey. Locking it up ruins that.
Who said anything about "locking it up". You can still provide the stalking and hunting stimulation through proper play and setting up kitty areas in your home that they can play and interact with all by their lonesome. I agree that having a cat and not providing it with stimulation is terrible and will lead to that cat acting out with strange behavior out of sheer boredom. However, that can be mitigated with proper care, play, and set up. It is basic responsible pet ownership. Allowing a cat to wander as a default rule is highly unsafe. Every area has its own benefits/detriments to allowing a cat to roam (animal populations, disease risks, proximity to busy streets, and so forth). In my area the vet recommended limited to no outdoor activities for cats unless we provided a small, fenced in area that was absolutely free of ticks and watched over them during that time. Lyme disease spread by ticks is a major concern in upstate NY and medications alone cannot prevent every tick bite.
=_= You don't get it. I wasn't being serious at all. Such is painfully obvious from me quoting "*serious stare*" separately.
Cats chew on computer cords as well.
Never experienced it, rarely heard about it, heard much more about rabbits chewing on cables. I only said rabbits are more prone to it. I didn't say cats don't chew on cables.
And I say, rabbit aside, you are full of shit.
You are entitled to your opinion and your rabbit, I just think your opinion is based on a huge misunderstanding on your part of my points. Goodbye.
Who said anything about "locking it up". [rest of post] Lyme disease spread by ticks is a major concern in upstate NY and medications alone cannot prevent every tick bite.
Long story short, the USA is a shithole for pets. Don't get pets in the USA people, the entire fucking country is rural as all hell. Every backyard houses 3 dragons AT LEAST! Not to mention your neighbours, they won't like your pet gold fish swimming in a fish bowl next to the shared wall!
You lot really try hard to make the USA look like shit, don't you? Enjoy blabbering on.
Yeah, Nine, I am sure there are absolutely no diseases common to your area, or are you merely as ignorant of them as you are about the ASPCA? Stop playing at being a hyper-nationalist and a bigot for one second and recognize that the U.S. is a large place and each region has its' own pros and cons, just like everywhere else in the world.
You lot really try hard to make the USA look like shit, don't you? Enjoy blabbering on.
You know, you say horrible things about Americans like me all the time. It's really obnoxious. The United States is a pretty good place, all things considered, and it's my home. I'm sick of you insulting my intelligence just because I happen to be American. It's stereotypical bigotry, and you are proving yourself just as ignorant as the closed-minded Americans you ridicule.
edit: Kate, I love you right now. You keep posting what I want to say before I say it. LOVE!
edit: Kate, I love you right now. You keep posting what I want to say before I say it. LOVE!
I love you, too! We've formed a sisterhood against Ninless's bigotry!
Goddamn...you two should do a podcast together as you two seem to have the perfect chemistry with one another (in terms of talking to each other that).
Goddamn...you two should do a podcast together as you two seem to have the perfect chemistry with one another (in terms of talking to each other that).
Well, we are RL pals, after all. It would be kinda fun to do a podcast with Kate or Nuri.
Goddamn...you two should do a podcast together as you two seem to have the perfect chemistry with one another (in terms of talking to each other that).
Well, we are RL pals, after all. It would be kinda fun to do a podcast with Kate or Nuri.
Why not all three? We now live within reasonable proximity for getting together. If we are willing to sacrifice audio quality a bit, then we could use voip conversations.
Goddamn...you two should do a podcast together as you two seem to have the perfect chemistry with one another (in terms of talking to each other that).
Well, we are RL pals, after all. It would be kinda fun to do a podcast with Kate or Nuri.
Why not all three? We now live within reasonable proximity for getting together. If we are willing to sacrifice audio quality a bit, then we could use voip conversations.
So much for a tasteful, private funeral... oh wait... this is the Jacksons.
They had a tasteful, private funeral this morning, with no cameras. The thing in the Staples Center with all the celebrities and stuff was the memorial service. It was probably the best way to shut the fans up.
So much for a tasteful, private funeral... oh wait... this is the Jacksons.
They had a tasteful, private funeral this morning, with no cameras. The thing in the Staples Center with all the celebrities and stuff was the memorial service. It was probably the best way to shut the fans up.
And the agents to make their money back from what they invested on his come-back tour.
Comments
I think the ideal situation for a suburban cat (I'm not talking about rural barn/house cats who live in the middle of nowhere) is to treat it like I do my rabbit. Let it go outside on nice days, but supervise it.
I'm with you as far as declawing, though. It seems kind of mean, like removing the tips of someone's fingers. Just grit your teeth and pad the sides of the couch. It may look ugly, but oh well. My dining room is filled with cardboard and plywood to entice the rabbit away from chewing the furniture. Same principle.
EDIT: Also, this.
I have a mini-lop named Ozymandias, and we take him outside occasionally to let him run around. No leash, no fence. We're not really worried about him, because he always stays fairly close to the house and always comes back. We typically keep an eye on him because we have cats in the neighborhood, and we don't really want to know what would happen if they met.
Do note that the terms 'dumb' and 'loyal' are used in relativity to cats. That you even think about the concept of leashing a rabbit is monstrous. Either way, from the rest of your post you just state that you do what Gomily said, supervise, with which I totally agree. Pet rabbits, like locked up cats, are sorry little creatures who'll have a pretty hard time surviving when suddenly let go. Mice aren't safe near that female cat either. It started with big mice, then she came home with smaller mice. Now there are no more mice found in the morning. It must be fighting luchadores. Even then, only the missing eye would require stitches and perhaps a few of the extremely big wounds, the tail a wooden board and the rest are just common occurrence in fights. Teeth are just lost outside of fighting anyway. Did you get the cat as a kitten? Our cats either were already taught not to scratch things inside or we taught it not to scratch stuff. And even then, when locked up too long they'd go crazy and climb the drapes anyhow. The old one just can't be taught to not beg during dinner. :< Thankfully it has been worse.
Although really, the argument is kind of moot, as intelligence varies by specific animal and while SOME rabbits may be dumber than MOST cats, it's really a case-by-case basis. There are stupid cats out there, too.
People WILL leash rabbits. It doesn't work very well, and it's rather stupid in my opinion. But I'm saying, it's out there/people do it.
In terms of the argument that the killing of birds is "natural" think in terms of the density of predators versus prey. The distribution of cats is far greater in a small area of neighborhood than it would be, were they feral animals. I think using cats out in the country to control mice is a good idea. Likewise in a city apartment building: If you have an indoor cat, they will frighten or eat all the mice and rats that hang around. There are no shots for kitty AIDS or feline leukemia, both things more common to outdoor cats. Also, do you even know what the ASPCA is? I'll give you a hint - It's not like PETA. What you just said was very ironic, all things considered.
Nine, you are acting rotten. I am done with you.
You lot really try hard to make the USA look like shit, don't you? Enjoy blabbering on.
edit: Kate, I love you right now. You keep posting what I want to say before I say it. LOVE!
But seriously, the three of you could make one hell of a podcast.