I'm taking those classes too. GDD includes all of those things. This quarter I'm taking Game Design and Development I, 3D Modelling and Animation, and Analytic Geometry (plus a liberal arts). I took programming in Flash last quarter, and I'm taking C++ next quarter.
No, but you could not get a job as a 3D modeler if you only have a smattering. Same with programming. We are a RIT CS only shop.
Edit: Okay, look at it this way: I feel like majors like this are grooming you to be a director, but that makes it difficult to get a job. Studios don't want to give control of projects to people fresh out of school. However, the amount of 3D art/programming coursework you are given is small compared to those people who specialize in those fields. Therefore, if we are hiring, we will search in places that do hardcore programming, not someone who has taken a few classes.
Eh. I'll have taken a ton of programming courses and be well-versed in code when I graduate. I'll have taken 1-2 coding and/or scripting classes every quarter when I graduate, I think. So, I dunno. I intend to be a code grunt when I start out, and I can pretty much guess I'll know enough about code to be a good code grunt when I graduate.
Alright. I am merely basing my judgement on the work I have seen come out of RIT CS, versus the portfolios from the game design department that get submitted. Also, I am bitter because the last coder we hired out of a game design program was kind of terrible.
Edit: I mean, he was a nice person and everything, but the effects of the code he wrote still linger on and cause people to swear when they come across them in the code-base.
I think it depends on the person. I know tons of people who will make awful programmers right out of college. However, I am innately a pretty good programmer, just interested in games. Thing is, you can theoretically skate by and get C's on programming work, but still graduate the major, but I've done well at everything coding I've had my hand in thus far. I can guarantee I won't be as good at pure code as a CS major. But I will be good at coding, and have a good understanding of games. While I am being groomed for a director position, I am going to be capable of doing menial work.
But I will be good at coding, and have a good understanding of games. While I am being groomed for a director position, I am going to be capable of doing menial work.
First, I want to know what "being groomed for a director position" is, and second I want to know what "menial work" means to you in this context.
I'm inclined to say that unless you've worked professionally in the industry (or any software industry for that matter) you may have some delusions or misconceptions. But I could be wrong, of course.
"Gamification" (referring to the way the class handles grades here particularlly) seems like a gimmick to me. Also, you do understand the pretty much any "coding" job at a major studio is pretty much the shittiest coding job you can get, right?
"Groomed for director position" means that my ideal job is one where I'm making design decisions and using my knowledge of code, art, and other computer technologies to communicate with other people working on the game. "Menial labor" means code, database management, programming class structures, and doing things that aren't particularly fun or involve me making any design decisions at all.
Andrew: Yes, I know low-level code at a game job is terrible. You can't dissuade me from this major as you people have tried to do roughly once a year now. I know what I'm getting into.
It's fine. I'm not trying to dissuade you; in fact, I could not possibly care less what a given person decides to study. I'm just pointing out that even really important, difficult shit can be incredibly boring.
I can guarantee I won't be as good at pure code as a CS major. But I will be good at coding, and have a good understanding of games. While I am being groomed for a director position, I am going to be capable of doing menial work.
That's fine, then. Good luck. Just a warning that it is tough to market yourself as a "designer."
Andrew: Yes, I know low-level code at a game job is terrible. You can't dissuade me from this major as you people have tried to do roughly once a year now. I know what I'm getting into.
Dude, I am not trying to dissuade you from anything. I like this industry despite all its problems, and I think people should try to do what they love. HOWEVER! It's good to be prepared for the realities of your given field. In film school too, your professors do their best to explain to you how it is out in the world. In my personal experience, game designers have it rough. We have designers here, but it is about a ratio of 1:6 - designers:programmers/artists. In other words, study up on your coding.
How exactly does the career path work in the gaming industry? Is it really Programmer->Designer? Because they are (or at least seem) quite different domain-wise. John Carmack doesn't design games and Warren Spector doesn't code them. The only real place to actually have the freedom to do both seems to be starting up your own company, which is insanely difficult.
The ideal goal is to program to get your foot into the door, and over time transition into a role that gives you decisions. I doubt I'll ever solely be the designer on a game, but I eventually might be able to make choices regarding the direction the game goes in.
While I am being groomed for a director position, I am going to be capable of doing menial work.
This makes you come off as a complete pompous ass.
Also, I hope you prepared to face the hard truth if things don't pan out to what you think it may be when you finish school.
Also with saying you're "being groomed", makes it sound like you already have a job/career in the bag. I don't think you do. I know what "being groomed" in any job industry is like. You just going to school isn't one of them. Being groomed means you have to really know people already in that field that know you and will more than likely be having a position ready and available for you when you're done with school.
I'm not trying to dissuade you, and hope you do well, but keep yourself in check with your expectations.
In my personal experience, game designers have it rough. We have designers here, but it is about a ratio of 6:1 designers:programmers/artists. In other words, study up on your coding.
That ratio makes it sound like you have six designers for every one programmer. Do you mean 1:6?
The ideal goal is to program to get your foot into the door, and over time transition into a role that gives you decisions. I doubt I'll ever solely be the designer on a game, but I eventually might be able to make choices regarding the direction the game goes in.
So you are focusing your whole degree on the chance that you might make some choices about games...eventually? I only bring this up because I know that these companies take advantage of the enthusiasm people (like you) have for games to make a profit.
I mean, who knows, you might be the awesome exception and find a good design job out of college. We may be cynics. Isn't it better to prepare yourself with a backup plan for failure and then be happy when you succeed? Also, for the love of Pete, don't stay in Rochester.
"Groomed for director position" means that my ideal job is one where I'm making design decisions and using my knowledge of code, art, and other computer technologies to communicate with other people working on the game. "Menial labor" means code, database management, programming class structures, and doing things that aren't particularly fun or involve me making any design decisions at all.
A few comments.
First, you vastly overestimate how prepared college-level knowledge will make you for that sort of role. Perhaps if you combine that knowledge with ten (twenty? thirty?) years of experience, a couple shipped titles, and perserverance - maybe. And I'm being polite here. The people I know in the industry would probably tell you more in harsher terms. Everyone wants to be that guy - but that job doesn't exist. Maybe if you can figure out how to get the funding for your own studio - then you can do it, but otherwise: it will probably never happen. And you will not be able to climb the ladder if you are not exemplary and above and beyond in those "menial" tasks.
Second, has anyone ever tried to appeal to you to persue being a producer? A director is almost an imaginary job for someone straight out of college. That's a position for someone with a few years (usually quite a few) of hard earned real experience and having shipped multiple titles. A producer, on the other hand, is something that the industry needs more of - and more people that really want to be good at it. The reason so few people persue it is because it's not glamourous, you will often seem the bad guy, and you won't be the one deciding what cool features the game should have. Instead, you'll be trying to make the gears actually turn so the production team can keep churning out deadlines and meeting goals. You will also have to be the bad guy and make decisions about where to cut things, when to hire and when to fire, and various other difficult aspects of any software industry.
Third, those "menial" tasks are typically vastly more complicated and interesting than I think you give them credit for. From personal experience, programming is a science, an art, and a trade - all at the same time. You must be analytical, creative, and structured. If you think it's "menial" then you probably understand less of it than you think you do. Sometimes it is finding that fucking errant character - and performing repeated tedious scripting and testing. But there's a whole lot more to it than that.
Colleges are more than happy to sell you a degree that you'll be very lucky if you can actually get the job. Ask my friend about his dramatic writing degree or my other friend who triple majored in like psych, history and poly sci.
Not trying, to get on anyone's case. But people should be aware it's very easy to waste money in college.
Code is beautiful. I was saying menial because I'm not expecting to work on the cool complex physics code, or creating the A.I. code. When I get hired, I imagine I'm not going to be in charge of cool, complex code, but instead working under someone doing something far lesser. It may still be cool, and I'm happy to start there, but it's more than likely not going to be fun.
From personal experience, programming is a science, an art, and a trade - all at the same time. You must be analytical, creative, and structured. If you think it's "menial" then you probably understand less of it than you think you do.
So true. Actually, producer is an excellent career path. You have to understand programmers and artists enough to correctly estimate time and effort for a particular project. Producers are necessary!
Comments
Edit: Okay, look at it this way: I feel like majors like this are grooming you to be a director, but that makes it difficult to get a job. Studios don't want to give control of projects to people fresh out of school. However, the amount of 3D art/programming coursework you are given is small compared to those people who specialize in those fields. Therefore, if we are hiring, we will search in places that do hardcore programming, not someone who has taken a few classes.
Also, I am bitter because the last coder we hired out of a game design program was kind of terrible.
Edit: I mean, he was a nice person and everything, but the effects of the code he wrote still linger on and cause people to swear when they come across them in the code-base.
I can guarantee I won't be as good at pure code as a CS major. But I will be good at coding, and have a good understanding of games. While I am being groomed for a director position, I am going to be capable of doing menial work.
I'm inclined to say that unless you've worked professionally in the industry (or any software industry for that matter) you may have some delusions or misconceptions. But I could be wrong, of course.
"Menial labor" means code, database management, programming class structures, and doing things that aren't particularly fun or involve me making any design decisions at all.
Andrew: Yes, I know low-level code at a game job is terrible. You can't dissuade me from this major as you people have tried to do roughly once a year now. I know what I'm getting into.
In my personal experience, game designers have it rough. We have designers here, but it is about a ratio of 1:6 - designers:programmers/artists. In other words, study up on your coding.
Also, I hope you prepared to face the hard truth if things don't pan out to what you think it may be when you finish school.
Also with saying you're "being groomed", makes it sound like you already have a job/career in the bag. I don't think you do. I know what "being groomed" in any job industry is like. You just going to school isn't one of them. Being groomed means you have to really know people already in that field that know you and will more than likely be having a position ready and available for you when you're done with school.
I'm not trying to dissuade you, and hope you do well, but keep yourself in check with your expectations.
Yes, I mean 1:6. I changed it.
Also, for the love of Pete, don't stay in Rochester.
First, you vastly overestimate how prepared college-level knowledge will make you for that sort of role. Perhaps if you combine that knowledge with ten (twenty? thirty?) years of experience, a couple shipped titles, and perserverance - maybe. And I'm being polite here. The people I know in the industry would probably tell you more in harsher terms. Everyone wants to be that guy - but that job doesn't exist. Maybe if you can figure out how to get the funding for your own studio - then you can do it, but otherwise: it will probably never happen. And you will not be able to climb the ladder if you are not exemplary and above and beyond in those "menial" tasks.
Second, has anyone ever tried to appeal to you to persue being a producer? A director is almost an imaginary job for someone straight out of college. That's a position for someone with a few years (usually quite a few) of hard earned real experience and having shipped multiple titles. A producer, on the other hand, is something that the industry needs more of - and more people that really want to be good at it. The reason so few people persue it is because it's not glamourous, you will often seem the bad guy, and you won't be the one deciding what cool features the game should have. Instead, you'll be trying to make the gears actually turn so the production team can keep churning out deadlines and meeting goals. You will also have to be the bad guy and make decisions about where to cut things, when to hire and when to fire, and various other difficult aspects of any software industry.
Third, those "menial" tasks are typically vastly more complicated and interesting than I think you give them credit for. From personal experience, programming is a science, an art, and a trade - all at the same time. You must be analytical, creative, and structured. If you think it's "menial" then you probably understand less of it than you think you do. Sometimes it is finding that fucking errant character - and performing repeated tedious scripting and testing. But there's a whole lot more to it than that.
Not trying, to get on anyone's case. But people should be aware it's very easy to waste money in college.
Actually, producer is an excellent career path. You have to understand programmers and artists enough to correctly estimate time and effort for a particular project. Producers are necessary!