You evidently need to take a college-level economics course. The pool of resources is NOT fixed; there are ways for entities, for instance banks, to effectively create value out of thin air.
You evidently need to take a college-level economics course. The pool of resources is NOT fixed; there are ways for entities, for instance banks, to effectively create value out of thin air.
I understand that. The reality is that reality is not infinite. The economics profs teaching that bullshit need to go back and take physics courses.
You evidently need to take a college-level economics course. The pool of resources is NOT fixed; there are ways for entities, for instance banks, to effectively create value out of thin air.
I understand that. The reality is that reality is not infinite. The economics profs teaching that bullshit need to go back and take physics courses.
You evidently need to take a college-level economics course. The pool of resources is NOT fixed; there are ways for entities, for instance banks, to effectively create value out of thin air.
I understand that. The reality is that reality is not infinite. The economics profs teaching that bullshit need to go back and take physics courses.
It effectively is; witness credit card companies. They invented an entirely new money supply.
I understand that. The reality is that reality is not infinite. The economics profs teaching that bullshit need to go back and take physics courses.
It's infinite enough not to matter at this point.
That's what politicians say about national debt.
EDIT: a little more seriously, it sounds like you're coming from a point of view like this, wherein the emotional value of objects sets their value. I still believe that things have intrinsic value based on scarcity (as opposed to simple emotional desire), so I would be discussing something else entirely with anybody that operates on different axioms. The reason for my belief is that the mathematics for anything else become too arbitrary and reactionary (not unlike real life I suppose), and explode without meaning or measure.
It effectively is; witness credit card companies. They invented an entirely new money supply.
You are kinda proving the point I'm making. That isn't sustainable, and will (has already?) lead to problems.
It's actually quite sustainable, as long as it's regulated sufficiently so that things don't get stupid. Credit cards have been around for a while, and will be for the foreseeable future. Moreover, it wasn't credit cards that have been causing problems.
it sounds like you're coming from a point of view like this, wherein the emotional value of objects sets their value. I still believe that things have intrinsic value based on scarcity
But from a practical perspective, NOTHING has any intrinsic value. The value of something is based not only on its scarcity, but on how much people want it. That demand comes from a combination of something's usefulness AND its emotional value. Not including the idea that something could have value outside of its potential uses would be stupid if you're trying to have a useful theory of economics.
I still believe that things have intrinsic value based on scarcity (as opposed to simple emotional desire), so I would be discussing something else entirely with anybody that operates on different axioms.
Isn't scarcity itself a bit of an arbitrary decider? It happens to be an ok metric when you don't have the technology to do something better, but it's a bit... antiquated..
Not including the idea that something could have value outside of its potential uses would be stupid
There was much in science that was created without a use, and didn't become valuable until a use appeared much later. Resources are like this too.
Stockpiles of useless junk is worth more than "nothing", because, for example, right now landfills are being mined for metals and gases like methane. Sure, 50 years ago it wasn't "worth" anything. But it was, if you hung onto it for 50 years. The true value never changed, only people's interest. Now all that metal is cheaper to smelt than mine and the gases are a cheap form of energy.
The true value never changed, only people's interest. Now all that metal is cheaper to smelt than mine and the gases are a cheap form of energy.
Bullshit. That's value that didn't actually exist 50 years ago. It's an example of how people are able to CREATE value where there previously was none. In economics, the only value something has is the value that people believe it has. This is why currency works.
I still believe that things have intrinsic value based on scarcity (as opposed to simple emotional desire), so I would be discussing something else entirely with anybody that operates on different axioms.
Isn't scarcity itself a bit of an arbitrary decider? It happens to be an ok metric when you don't have the technology to do something better, but it's a bit... antiquated..
It's an example of how people are able to CREATE value where there previously was none. In economics, the only value something has is the value that people believe it has. This is why currency works.
Again, I'll go back to my comment that we are working on fundamentally different axioms. You cannot convince me that value is purely based on in-the-moment desires and I'm pretty sure by your response that I can't convince you that value exists outside human desire for it.
I still believe that things have intrinsic value based on scarcity (as opposed to simple emotional desire), so I would be discussing something else entirely with anybody that operates on different axioms.
Isn't scarcity itself a bit of an arbitrary decider? It happens to be an ok metric when you don't have the technology to do something better, but it's a bit... antiquated..
Yeah, I'll grant that scarceness is somewhat arbitrary, but using it as a metric does provide a baseline of comparison for different patterns of thought to be discussed. For example, comparing and contrasting some kind of "universal" (and nigh-immeasurable) scarcity vs demand (the emotional reaction to perceived scarcity).
You cannot convince me that value is purely based on in-the-moment desires and I'm pretty sure by your response that I can't convince you that value exists outside human desire for it.
You cannot convince me that value is purely based on in-the-moment desires and I'm pretty sure by your response that I can't convince you that value exists outside human desire for it.
Okay, is anyone following this still? In what has to be a new record of ridiculous politicking and utter bald-faced lying and blame-game bullshit, John "It's not boner" Bhoener and the republitards WALKED OUT ON TALKS about the budget and economy whining that Obama basically wasn't caving in to their every demand. In a super double bonus bullshit maneuver, they want to give up congressional power to the president so he can raise the debt without them. This, THIS BULLSHIT from the 'small government' party. Their motives are so thinly veiled and pathetic that any twelve year old with a basic understanding of government can see through it. The cacophony of tea-bagging morons have decided that, oh yes, the economy actually will collapse if we don't raise the debt ceiling. But all their friends don't want to be taxed one red cent of the billions upon billions of dollars their distended pockets are full of. They'd be insane to vote no and take the blame for destroying everything further and thereby ensuring their entire party continues to be a bunch of unelectable backwater anti-intellectual redneck bible-grappling jackasses who couldn't find their collective asses with both hands. So they're trying to put it all on Obama and the democrats in a sick attempt to get political points for 2012 at the expense of everyone in the fucking country. They're so fucking hell-bent on never putting any burden on their touted 'job creators' (who, by the fucking way haven't done shit except give their highest ranking execs gargantuan pay raises while telling workers there just isn't enough left over for raises, and oh yeah American workers are now making less than they did thirty years ago proportionally and counting inflation while executives are making something like 300% more) and gutting every public service and government agency that they'd ruin the entire economy just so they can blame someone else and try to win another election so they can fuck things up further. Let me be as clear as I can possibly be: I HATE EVERY LAST MISERABLE ONE OF YOU, REPUBLICANS. YOU ARE A WORTHLESS GANG OF GREED-OBSESSED ASSHOLES WHO DON'T DESERVE TO BE ANYWHERE NEAR THE GOVERNMENT. FUCK YOU FOR RUINING EVERYTHING, AND THEN CONTINUING TO DENY THAT YOU HAD ANY PART IN IT.
My personal feeling comes from Information Theory. The value in all things, from my perspective, are based on its utility as could be described from Information Theory.
The configuration of atoms in the ocean and all the other forces are truly one large, complex computation with an exceedingly high value. Life itself has value different than non-life by its configuration that self-perpetuates self-similar order. Life (value) in the ocean is possible because of the ocean (higher value) and other factors, all of which has value in information theory.
I mean, if we really want to get into this.
EDIT: but thankfully we don't have to, because the thread is back on topic.
I HATE EVERY LAST MISERABLE ONE OF YOU, REPUBLICANS. YOU ARE A WORTHLESS GANG OF GREED-OBSESSED ASSHOLES WHO DON'T DESERVE TO BE ANYWHERE NEAR THE GOVERNMENT. FUCK YOU FOR RUINING ANYTHING, AND THEN CONTINUING TO DENY THAT YOU HAD ANY PART IN IT.
QFT
The Republican Party is rather blatantly not even concerned with running your country anymore. I would not be surprised to hear that the rich fucks running the place essentially hope the economy collapses so that their diversified interests and money in tax havens allows them to better exploit the third world nation they are in the process of creating.
I'm actively looking into the process of expatriating to Europe and taking advantage of free med school and college there based on my preexisting EU citizenship. The Eurozone Debt Plague is a bad summer cold compared to what will happen if the US defaults.
Step 1: Find the answer that best adheres to your ideology. Step 2: There is no step 2, because you're done already.
granted, this isn't much better than the dem's system
Step 1: Find the answer that best adheres to your ideology. Step 2: Check and see if it is ok with the Republicans Step 3: Do what the Republicans want (because it won't be ok)
Obama walked out of talks this morning in frustration because the Republicans so far have changed from "cut everything and lower taxes" to "you make the call all by yourself so we can blame everything on you later" to "we want an extension even though you said months ago that you wouldn't grant one." Link. My favorite rage-causing quote from the article?
McConnell predicted that if Congress fails to act, Obama will argue "that Republicans are making the economy worse and try to convince the public, maybe with some merit, if people start not getting their Social Security checks and military families start getting letters saying their service people overseas don't get paid."
"You know, it's an argument he has a good chance of winning, and all of a sudden we (Republicans) have co-ownership of a bad economy," McConnell said. "That is a very bad positioning going into an election."
McConnell said his first choice was to reach a good compromise with Obama.
Short of that, "my second obligation is to my party ... to prevent them from being sucked into a horrible position politically that would allow the president probably to get re-elected because we didn't handle this difficult situation correctly."
I only wish I could give one of those old fartsacks a swift kick in the teeth the next time they start a statement with "The American people want..." The American people want to NOT DEFAULT. Fuck all of this.
Comments
EDIT: a little more seriously, it sounds like you're coming from a point of view like this, wherein the emotional value of objects sets their value. I still believe that things have intrinsic value based on scarcity (as opposed to simple emotional desire), so I would be discussing something else entirely with anybody that operates on different axioms. The reason for my belief is that the mathematics for anything else become too arbitrary and reactionary (not unlike real life I suppose), and explode without meaning or measure.
Stockpiles of useless junk is worth more than "nothing", because, for example, right now landfills are being mined for metals and gases like methane. Sure, 50 years ago it wasn't "worth" anything. But it was, if you hung onto it for 50 years.
The true value never changed, only people's interest. Now all that metal is cheaper to smelt than mine and the gases are a cheap form of energy.
Their motives are so thinly veiled and pathetic that any twelve year old with a basic understanding of government can see through it. The cacophony of tea-bagging morons have decided that, oh yes, the economy actually will collapse if we don't raise the debt ceiling. But all their friends don't want to be taxed one red cent of the billions upon billions of dollars their distended pockets are full of.
They'd be insane to vote no and take the blame for destroying everything further and thereby ensuring their entire party continues to be a bunch of unelectable backwater anti-intellectual redneck bible-grappling jackasses who couldn't find their collective asses with both hands. So they're trying to put it all on Obama and the democrats in a sick attempt to get political points for 2012 at the expense of everyone in the fucking country. They're so fucking hell-bent on never putting any burden on their touted 'job creators' (who, by the fucking way haven't done shit except give their highest ranking execs gargantuan pay raises while telling workers there just isn't enough left over for raises, and oh yeah American workers are now making less than they did thirty years ago proportionally and counting inflation while executives are making something like 300% more) and gutting every public service and government agency that they'd ruin the entire economy just so they can blame someone else and try to win another election so they can fuck things up further.
Let me be as clear as I can possibly be:
I HATE EVERY LAST MISERABLE ONE OF YOU, REPUBLICANS. YOU ARE A WORTHLESS GANG OF GREED-OBSESSED ASSHOLES WHO DON'T DESERVE TO BE ANYWHERE NEAR THE GOVERNMENT. FUCK YOU FOR RUINING EVERYTHING, AND THEN CONTINUING TO DENY THAT YOU HAD ANY PART IN IT.
The configuration of atoms in the ocean and all the other forces are truly one large, complex computation with an exceedingly high value. Life itself has value different than non-life by its configuration that self-perpetuates self-similar order. Life (value) in the ocean is possible because of the ocean (higher value) and other factors, all of which has value in information theory.
I mean, if we really want to get into this.
EDIT: but thankfully we don't have to, because the thread is back on topic.
The Republican Party is rather blatantly not even concerned with running your country anymore. I would not be surprised to hear that the rich fucks running the place essentially hope the economy collapses so that their diversified interests and money in tax havens allows them to better exploit the third world nation they are in the process of creating.
I don't even.
Step 1: Find the answer that best adheres to your ideology.
Step 2: There is no step 2, because you're done already.
granted, this isn't much better than the dem's system
Step 1: Find the answer that best adheres to your ideology.
Step 2: Check and see if it is ok with the Republicans
Step 3: Do what the Republicans want (because it won't be ok)
Link.
My favorite rage-causing quote from the article?