I keep trying to play this game, but the server listing doesn't work. I also can't create a game for some reason. I basically can't play unless someone else I know is playing. So if anyone is about to play, IM me or whatever.
I'd tell you guys what i think of this game, but it's hard to form an opinion when I get kicked out of every other match I try to participate in. I think the ranking system just amplifies the player's obsession with winning, making total newbies all the more frustrating. If you lose because someone on your team is new to the game then your score will go down, and you'll get kicked from future games because of it. Public matches never benefit from anything but very low stakes; all high stakes does is make people think about the risk of losing instead of having fun in the moment and taking the time to help newbies.
I'd tell you guys what i think of this game, but it's hard to form an opinion when I get kicked out of every other match I try to participate in. I think the ranking system just amplifies the player's obsession with winning, making total newbies all the more frustrating. If you lose because someone on your team is new to the game thenyourscore will go down, and you'll get kicked from future games because of it. Public matches never benefit from anything but very low stakes; all high stakes does is make people think about the risk of losing instead of having fun in the moment and taking the time to help newbies.
There are other causes in this problem, but this is definitely one of them.
They really have a problem in this game that makes it impossible to play if you aren't already awesome. There's no learning curve whatsoever, just a learning gap. If you play with just noobs, you will never learn the skills and strategies necessary to actually be good. If you try to play in a game with skilled players, they all suck ass and kick you.
There are only a few solutions to this problem that I can see.
1) The game developers fix the game to make the community not suck. And yes, whether you believe it or not, the game shapes the community. 2) We just don't play this game. 3) We only play with people we know and ignore the community. This is what I'm doing now, and it kind of sucks. It means I can't play the game whenever I want to. I really want to play, and nobody is online. So I have to go do something else. Because the game isn't on Steam it is very hard to find players. 4) We get a whole bunch of noobs to join the community. Keep inviting and keep playing, and keep getting kicked. Just don't give up. Keep joining games and keep getting kicked as much as possible with as many other noobs as possible. Eventually, the hardcore people will be faced with some tough choices. They can stop playing, they can help the noobs out, or they can keep kicking them and having shitty games. Remember, if you join a game with enough other noobs, they can't vote you out. They'll also be punished if they quit. You might lose the game big time, but at least you will play, and maybe learn something.
I'm going to try a new strategy tonight. I'm going to join a game, but before it starts I will tell them I am a noob. Hopefully I will have enough time to explain, that I can't un-nub playing only against nubs. I need to see what the good players do in order to learn the skills. Maybe someone will help me out. Maybe I can eventually get the skills so this won't be a problem for me anymore.
Also, maybe if two nubs join a game, one on each team, the players will accept the even-ness of having one nub each.
The community is definitely full of assholes, but I will give them every opportunity to not be assholes. The game is showing some potential, so I think it's worth at least a little bit of effort. I only need this game to hold me over until L4D2 and NS2 come out.
Another problem I'm having is that I can't load the game list or create a game. So even if I want to play some nub-only games, I can't find them.
Lesson from Scott: How NOT to make a strategy video.
Example a)
This video is supposed to teach you how to decide which items to buy. The fact that this video is made by the developers really decreases my hopes for this game being fixed.
Let me sum up everything this video says. There is a recommended items tab that has items which are generally a good idea, but to be really good you have to get the right items in the right situations.
That's all this video says. USELESS. There are so many fucking items, how is someone supposed to learn them all? It becomes a knowledge game, rather than a strategy game. To do this video properly, they should go through each and every single item, one at a time, and explain its uses, when you should buy it, etc. etc.
The culture of this game is not going to change because this is exactly the way the DotA community was. If your theory about tons of noobs surging in to change the culture was going to work, it would have happened when that Basshunter song came out.
The new player issue is mostly because a large part of the Beta community played DotA, and the game is so similar that they expect everyone just to know magically how to play. I have met numerous people who are literally brand new to the game and DotA, and I've offered help whenever I could. You just have to hang in there until you get over the learning gap. Again, once I can actually play with people I'll be able to help a lot more as far as item selection and power selection.
Ok, so I watched a whole bunch of videos on YouTube. Many of them were actually good and helpful made by good members of the community. They do exist.
However, what I have learned is sad. Apparently even though this is an RTS where you only control one unit, it's just as fiddly and fast-clicking as all the RTSes out there I hate. In fact, it might even be worse. Here are examples.
1) last-killing and denying. Apparently a basic strategy in the game is to get the last hit on an enemy to get more xp and gold. If you just let your guy sit there and auto-attack, you're going to suck. Instead what you have to do is click on any enemy unit that has low health. So, basically lots of clicking. Also, you are supposed to attack your own units that are low on health. WTF? The reason is that if you kill the unit, it denies xp and gold to the enemies. This is basic gameplay, lots of moronic micromanagement and lots of pointless clicking. If they wanted the game to be like this, they could have just set the auto-attack AI to follow this strategy. Apparently it is also a good strategy to destroy your own tower if it is very weak. This will prevent the enemy from getting a lot of gold and xp.
2) creep blocking. Apparently another good strategy is to slow down the first wave of creeps that leaves your base by standing in front of them. You do this by, of course, clicking a whole bunch to keep walking straight. The idea is that you want your creeps to meet the enemy creeps near your tower. This can give you an advantage early.
3) jungling. Apparently with some heros you want to go level up against the npc neutral creeps right away. These creeps respawn every thirty seconds if they are not already spawned. So what you are supposed to do is look at the clock very closely. When the clock gets to like, 28 seconds, go in and get the creeps to chase you out. Then new ones will spawn, and there will be twice as many of them. This means you can get more of them and more xps and golds by micro-managing.
4) drawing aggro: So let's say there is an enemy hero and some creeps. The creeps are fighting each other. The enemy hero is shooting the creeps. If you attack the enemy hero, the creeps will turn their attention to you. Not so good. What you can do instead is only use special spell attacks on the enemy hero, and keep pressing buttons to prevent yourself from auto-attacking the enemy hero. The creeps will ignore you.
Similarly, let's say you have two units under your control, like the hero with the hell hounds. You are attacking a tower. The tower is shooting one of your hounds, and it is about to die. Select that hound and move it away from the tower. The tower will switch to shooting the other hound. Now move the almost dead hound to attack the tower again. The tower will continue attacking the hound with more health, and the low-health hound will continue doing damage.
In summary, the way to be good at this game is to click like crazy with lots of stupid and pointless micro-management. This is very very disappointing. It's yet another game that's not actually about strategy, but about knowledge, just like World of Warcraft and such. There are a zillion items, attacks, patterns, etc., but the game isn't about making meaningful decisions. It's about recognizing and executing patterns with fast and precise clicking.
This game has basically the same problem as Mario Kart DS. It's really really fun to just play. The best strategy for winning is snaking. Snaking is not fun. Without snaking the game would be amazing. But snaking is there. If you don't snake, you lose. If you are a self-respecting gamer, you can't just ignore the optimal strategy for the sake of fun. You either snake or don't play. But snaking isn't fun. So not-playing usually ends up being the way to go.
I'll still play the game a little bit more, but I think there's almost no chance I'll pay for it at this point. I'll try out doing the things I learned from the videos, and see how it goes. I'm going to try the League of Legends also, which is free now. Really, all I'm looking for is something to hold me over until L4D2 and NS2 come out. Why can't it just be easy?
1. True, those above listed strategies CAN be used in the game, but they do not, in any way, guarantee you victory or faster leveling. Granted, someone consistently and effectively whacking their own units for a significant period will get a level and gold advantage over the opponent in the lane you are in, it is not necessary to do. Additionally, over-denying can stop YOU from getting the creep kills you need to gain exp and gold, since you get none from attacking your own units.
2. While creep blocking is also possible, the edge it gives you is minute, and generally not worth the effort. I've never used this strategy nor have I ever seen anyone else using it on my teams.
3. Jungling can also be effective, but its' a pain in the ass and not necessary. I find it easier just to stick in the lane and only hit the jungle NPC's if I need some extra gold, if I am going too long without killing anything, or if I am hanging back on defense waiting to jump unsuspecting enemy heroes.
4. This is a good trick, but hard to get the specific situation set up for the hero thing. When encountering a hero attacking the jungle NPC's, I tend to let fly on the hero and creeps with AOE specials first, typically killing the creeps in the process anyhow. The strategy can work, but it's not a frequently used or necessary strategy.
The micromanagement is there, but I have found unless you are ridiculously effective, it doesn't make much of a difference. Heroes left alone in a lane by themselves, who get early kills on other heroes or simply go long stretches without dying pose a far greater threat than anyone using the above strategies. Not only are the above strats mostly not fun, but don't give a very high amount of payout for the effort invested. I do not use them, and I am a pretty effective player. Also, some of the most frustrating and effective players I have encountered don't use the above strategies at all.
Also, remember what was said about LoL above, if you pay more money you get better heroes, period.
I'm still interested in trying this game, but it seems like it'll only be worth it to play with other nubs like the ones on this forum. I just have to get these exams over and done with.
Pubing is always a bad idea. Never ever pub. I gave out 12 keys in total so there are plenty of people to with. Someone set up a schedule to play. I can play tonight if anyone has a game planed. (+1 maybe)
Also, keep in mind that this is a Beta. Usually the more dedicated players would want in on the Beta.
I realize this. However, it's also a demo. If it's just a beta, why are they so forcefully trying to sell me the full game for $30. The shithead community does not inspire me to pay.
So what has the higher "screw-over-the-noob" factor, this or DF?
It's different.
In Dwarf Fortress, it's hard to learn how to play at all. But once you learn how to play, you can't really be bad at it. And nobody can prevent you from playing and learning. You just keep playing, losing, and learning.
In this, learning to play is pretty easy. The controls aren't that complicated. They're more complicated than your average game, but less complicated than a full on RTS like Starcraft. The problem is learning to be good. Most people learn by making mistakes over and over. This game doesn't even let you make mistakes. It's multiplayer only, and you get kicked out of a game by the other players before you can make mistakes and learn from them. Even if you stick to noob vs. noob games the other news will kick you for being more of a noob than they are.
There's a difference between a Closed Beta and a Demo. A Demo is made to specifically promote the best points of the game. A Closed Beta is a shell of a product made with the ultimate purpose of sweeping out the bugs for a future release, as well as allowing for Beta Testers to provide their own input towards further improvement. There's a big difference.
The Left 4 Dead 2 demo wasn't released to test Valve's server-capacity, right?
Have you been in a Closed Beta for game, besides this one? It's common practice for a Developer to provide special deals and promos to their Beta Testers.
Have you been in a Closed Beta for game, besides this one? It's common practice for a Developer to provide special deals and promos to their Beta Testers.
It doesn't matter what you call it. If you are advertising your game, then whatever people are playing is what people have to make decisions based on. If it's not good, it's not good.
Comments
They really have a problem in this game that makes it impossible to play if you aren't already awesome. There's no learning curve whatsoever, just a learning gap. If you play with just noobs, you will never learn the skills and strategies necessary to actually be good. If you try to play in a game with skilled players, they all suck ass and kick you.
There are only a few solutions to this problem that I can see.
1) The game developers fix the game to make the community not suck. And yes, whether you believe it or not, the game shapes the community.
2) We just don't play this game.
3) We only play with people we know and ignore the community. This is what I'm doing now, and it kind of sucks. It means I can't play the game whenever I want to. I really want to play, and nobody is online. So I have to go do something else. Because the game isn't on Steam it is very hard to find players.
4) We get a whole bunch of noobs to join the community. Keep inviting and keep playing, and keep getting kicked. Just don't give up. Keep joining games and keep getting kicked as much as possible with as many other noobs as possible. Eventually, the hardcore people will be faced with some tough choices. They can stop playing, they can help the noobs out, or they can keep kicking them and having shitty games. Remember, if you join a game with enough other noobs, they can't vote you out. They'll also be punished if they quit. You might lose the game big time, but at least you will play, and maybe learn something.
I'm going to try a new strategy tonight. I'm going to join a game, but before it starts I will tell them I am a noob. Hopefully I will have enough time to explain, that I can't un-nub playing only against nubs. I need to see what the good players do in order to learn the skills. Maybe someone will help me out. Maybe I can eventually get the skills so this won't be a problem for me anymore.
Also, maybe if two nubs join a game, one on each team, the players will accept the even-ness of having one nub each.
The community is definitely full of assholes, but I will give them every opportunity to not be assholes. The game is showing some potential, so I think it's worth at least a little bit of effort. I only need this game to hold me over until L4D2 and NS2 come out.
Another problem I'm having is that I can't load the game list or create a game. So even if I want to play some nub-only games, I can't find them.
Example a)
This video is supposed to teach you how to decide which items to buy. The fact that this video is made by the developers really decreases my hopes for this game being fixed.
Let me sum up everything this video says. There is a recommended items tab that has items which are generally a good idea, but to be really good you have to get the right items in the right situations.
That's all this video says. USELESS. There are so many fucking items, how is someone supposed to learn them all? It becomes a knowledge game, rather than a strategy game. To do this video properly, they should go through each and every single item, one at a time, and explain its uses, when you should buy it, etc. etc.
(Also, Modern Warfare 2 has been taking up a lot of time that would otherwise be spent playing this. :P)
However, what I have learned is sad. Apparently even though this is an RTS where you only control one unit, it's just as fiddly and fast-clicking as all the RTSes out there I hate. In fact, it might even be worse. Here are examples.
1) last-killing and denying. Apparently a basic strategy in the game is to get the last hit on an enemy to get more xp and gold. If you just let your guy sit there and auto-attack, you're going to suck. Instead what you have to do is click on any enemy unit that has low health. So, basically lots of clicking. Also, you are supposed to attack your own units that are low on health. WTF? The reason is that if you kill the unit, it denies xp and gold to the enemies. This is basic gameplay, lots of moronic micromanagement and lots of pointless clicking. If they wanted the game to be like this, they could have just set the auto-attack AI to follow this strategy. Apparently it is also a good strategy to destroy your own tower if it is very weak. This will prevent the enemy from getting a lot of gold and xp.
2) creep blocking. Apparently another good strategy is to slow down the first wave of creeps that leaves your base by standing in front of them. You do this by, of course, clicking a whole bunch to keep walking straight. The idea is that you want your creeps to meet the enemy creeps near your tower. This can give you an advantage early.
3) jungling. Apparently with some heros you want to go level up against the npc neutral creeps right away. These creeps respawn every thirty seconds if they are not already spawned. So what you are supposed to do is look at the clock very closely. When the clock gets to like, 28 seconds, go in and get the creeps to chase you out. Then new ones will spawn, and there will be twice as many of them. This means you can get more of them and more xps and golds by micro-managing.
4) drawing aggro: So let's say there is an enemy hero and some creeps. The creeps are fighting each other. The enemy hero is shooting the creeps. If you attack the enemy hero, the creeps will turn their attention to you. Not so good. What you can do instead is only use special spell attacks on the enemy hero, and keep pressing buttons to prevent yourself from auto-attacking the enemy hero. The creeps will ignore you.
Similarly, let's say you have two units under your control, like the hero with the hell hounds. You are attacking a tower. The tower is shooting one of your hounds, and it is about to die. Select that hound and move it away from the tower. The tower will switch to shooting the other hound. Now move the almost dead hound to attack the tower again. The tower will continue attacking the hound with more health, and the low-health hound will continue doing damage.
In summary, the way to be good at this game is to click like crazy with lots of stupid and pointless micro-management. This is very very disappointing. It's yet another game that's not actually about strategy, but about knowledge, just like World of Warcraft and such. There are a zillion items, attacks, patterns, etc., but the game isn't about making meaningful decisions. It's about recognizing and executing patterns with fast and precise clicking.
This game has basically the same problem as Mario Kart DS. It's really really fun to just play. The best strategy for winning is snaking. Snaking is not fun. Without snaking the game would be amazing. But snaking is there. If you don't snake, you lose. If you are a self-respecting gamer, you can't just ignore the optimal strategy for the sake of fun. You either snake or don't play. But snaking isn't fun. So not-playing usually ends up being the way to go.
I'll still play the game a little bit more, but I think there's almost no chance I'll pay for it at this point. I'll try out doing the things I learned from the videos, and see how it goes. I'm going to try the League of Legends also, which is free now. Really, all I'm looking for is something to hold me over until L4D2 and NS2 come out. Why can't it just be easy?
1. True, those above listed strategies CAN be used in the game, but they do not, in any way, guarantee you victory or faster leveling. Granted, someone consistently and effectively whacking their own units for a significant period will get a level and gold advantage over the opponent in the lane you are in, it is not necessary to do. Additionally, over-denying can stop YOU from getting the creep kills you need to gain exp and gold, since you get none from attacking your own units.
2. While creep blocking is also possible, the edge it gives you is minute, and generally not worth the effort. I've never used this strategy nor have I ever seen anyone else using it on my teams.
3. Jungling can also be effective, but its' a pain in the ass and not necessary. I find it easier just to stick in the lane and only hit the jungle NPC's if I need some extra gold, if I am going too long without killing anything, or if I am hanging back on defense waiting to jump unsuspecting enemy heroes.
4. This is a good trick, but hard to get the specific situation set up for the hero thing. When encountering a hero attacking the jungle NPC's, I tend to let fly on the hero and creeps with AOE specials first, typically killing the creeps in the process anyhow. The strategy can work, but it's not a frequently used or necessary strategy.
The micromanagement is there, but I have found unless you are ridiculously effective, it doesn't make much of a difference. Heroes left alone in a lane by themselves, who get early kills on other heroes or simply go long stretches without dying pose a far greater threat than anyone using the above strategies. Not only are the above strats mostly not fun, but don't give a very high amount of payout for the effort invested. I do not use them, and I am a pretty effective player. Also, some of the most frustrating and effective players I have encountered don't use the above strategies at all.
Also, remember what was said about LoL above, if you pay more money you get better heroes, period.
I just have to get these exams over and done with.
2) Fuck. I'll try it once anyway.
In Dwarf Fortress, it's hard to learn how to play at all. But once you learn how to play, you can't really be bad at it. And nobody can prevent you from playing and learning. You just keep playing, losing, and learning.
In this, learning to play is pretty easy. The controls aren't that complicated. They're more complicated than your average game, but less complicated than a full on RTS like Starcraft. The problem is learning to be good. Most people learn by making mistakes over and over. This game doesn't even let you make mistakes. It's multiplayer only, and you get kicked out of a game by the other players before you can make mistakes and learn from them. Even if you stick to noob vs. noob games the other news will kick you for being more of a noob than they are.
The Left 4 Dead 2 demo wasn't released to test Valve's server-capacity, right?
Have you been in a Closed Beta for game, besides this one? It's common practice for a Developer to provide special deals and promos to their Beta Testers.