The frequency of broken hands in MMA, even with fight wraps and gloves, makes me think otherwise.
You're kinda proving my point here, many (even professional) MMA fighters don't have good punching technique even with wraps, whereas trained boxers generally punch well. I don't have any data though, and a quick scan of google didn't bring up any good data, but wikipedia claims that "Boxers and other combat athletes routinely use hand wraps and boxing gloves to help stabilize the hand, greatly reducing pain and risk of injury during impact training such as working the heavy bag."
but wikipedia claims that "Boxers and other combat athletes routinely use hand wraps and boxing gloves to help stabilize the hand, greatly reducing pain and risk of injury during impact training such as working the heavy bag."
Right. Because punching without hand-wraps causes broken hands. Mike Tyson broke his hand in a street fight. It just happens, period. It's not because of improper technique, it's because skulls and elbows are stronger than metacarpals and phalanges, and when you ram your fist really hard into the top of someone's head, your fist loses.
What kind of background are you coming at this from? This sounds like karate stuff. Ever done any boxing?
Yeah, I'm not really sure what the optimal street fight strategy is. Uppercuts can be bad, because you risk hitting the elbows, which'll break your fingers. I don't plan on ever ending up in a street fight, but if I did, I think ideally, I'd pop a couple jabs, then try to crash into a clinch. From there, knees or throw, whichever seems easier.
but wikipedia claims that "Boxers and other combat athletes routinely use hand wraps and boxing gloves to help stabilize the hand, greatly reducing pain and risk of injury during impact training such as working the heavy bag."
Right. Because punching without hand-wraps causes broken hands. Mike Tysonbroke his handin a street fight. It just happens, period. It's not because of improper technique, it's because skulls and elbows are stronger than metacarpals and phalanges, and when you ram your fist really hard into the top of someone's head, your fist loses.
What kind of background are you coming at this from? This sounds like karate stuff. Ever done any boxing?
I've trained in boxing (when I was young (10-11, 20 now)) and muay thai (17-19) . My muay thai instructor (a Lumpinee and WMC champion) told me that keeping your hands strong will prevent you from breaking them, and emphasized striking technique, placing shots, and setting up shots properly. I don't know the details of the Tyson street fight, but knowing his usual style, he probably threw a hook, which isn't really practical to the head without gloves (a lot of people warn against throwing them hard on bags).
It's true that after enough training with a heavy bag, you will eventually develop enough keratinous fiber and muscle around your knuckles to absorb the kinetic energy sent back to your hand while throwing punches. However, stress fractures can still occur, just by virtue of the fact that its a slow build to Boxer's Fracture, rather than an immediate fracture.
EDIT: Keep in mind that I'm tell you guys what I know about this anatomically. It's been years (nearing a decade) since I practiced a martial art.
I've trained in boxing (when I was young (10-11, 20 now)) and muay thai (17-19) . My muay thai instructor (a Lumpinee and WMC champion) told me that keeping your hands strong will prevent you from breaking them, and emphasized striking technique, placing shots, and setting up shots properly. I don't know the details of the Tyson street fight, but knowing his usual style, he probably threw a hook, which isn't really practical to the head without gloves (a lot of people warn against throwing them hard on bags).
Well, shit, you've got more experience with boxing than I do, then. Did your instructor say that keeping your hands strong will prevent you from breaking them bareknuckle? I know it's something you're unlikely to get reliable data on, but it just seems unlikely to me that you could reduce the risk of breakage that significantly, I mean, hell, even in lerdrit, the military form of muay thai, they use open-hand strikes instead of punches for exactly that reason.
Or Judo. Pins and throws seem useful.
One of the things that's cool about grappling is it allows a nice steady curve in the level of force you have available. You can still bury someone on their head if you need to, but you can also fairly gently take down and control your drunk cousin who got out of hand.
Well, shit, you've got more experience with boxing than I do, then. Did your instructor say that keeping your hands strong will prevent you from breaking them bareknuckle? I know it's something you're unlikely to get reliable data on, but it just seems unlikely to me that you could reduce the risk of breakage that significantly, I mean, hell, even in lerdrit, the military form of muay thai, they use open-hand strikes instead of punches for exactly that reason.
He just said it prevents breaks in general, but he did tell me not to throw certain punches/kicks in street fights (hooks anywhere, due to the risk of serious damage to wrist and hands, said to aim straight punches under chin around collarbone height, recommended using lighter punches to set up elbows).
I need to get me some Muay Thai training, or something similar. I can kick like a motherfucker (of course), and I know more than the average Joe about grappling, but basic punching and power breaking is about all I can do when striking with my arms. I've been at this about ten years now; I think it's about time I broadened my martial arts horizons.
One of the things that's cool about grappling is it allows a nice steady curve in the level of force you have available. You can still bury someone on their head if you need to, but you can also fairly gently take down and control your drunk cousin who got out of hand.
That's always the trouble when training in TKD. If you're going to use most of the useful self-defense techniques in Tae Kwon Do, you have to be ready to hurt somebody.
he did tell me not to throw certain punches/kicks in street fights (hooks anywhere, due to the risk of serious damage to wrist and hands, said to aim straight punches under chin around collarbone height, recommended using lighter punches to set up elbows).
That does sound like good advice -- that's why if I had the presence of mind, I'd only throw jabs in a street fight. My power hand is also my drawing hand/meal-ticket.
I need to get me some Muay Thai training, or something similar. I can kick like amotherfucker(of course), and I know more than the average Joe about grappling, but basic punching and power breaking is about all I can do when striking with my arms. I've been at this about ten years now; I think it's about time I broadened my martial arts horizons.
Here's what happens when you add muay thai to a TKD background:
I'm excited to see a martial arts thread on the forums. It's a passion of mine.
I coached kendo for two years here in Tokyo to junior high kids, even though I'm not that great at it. I also fought in two amateur Muay Thai matches and managed to win the first one and draw the second. I'm training for a possible third match after the new year, but the brain damage and damage to my body is a problem.
If anyone comes to Tokyo for TGS or any other related visit please come by my gym for sparring/fighting and training with Thai pros! It's a great work out and a lot of fun. PM me if you're coming by this way.
I trained in TKD for about six years when I was a child. It was a fun martial art. I've been knocked out very briefly in TKD sparring once, probably because we were taught to keep our hands low. I love the high fancy kicks; nothing like seeing someone get their face bashed in with an axekick!
Here's what happens when you add muay thai to a TKD background:
Ouch.
He should apply to the Guinness book for most kicks in the head. That video approaches shonen manga levels of ridiculous.
Cro-Cop is ridiculous. I saw him fight in the event 'Dreams' a few years ago. He only lost because he took leaping knee in the crotch. It was ruled a no contest and he couldn't continue.
My favorite fight that was on Japanese TV was when destroyed Bob Sapp. Before the fight Cro-Cop said he was going to be a giant killer and the weight difference wouldn't matter. If you don't want to watch the whole thing, it gets exciting at 1:28 or so. This was back when K-1 still allowed clinching, the new rules are terrible.
We had a practice tournament yesterday and luckily I just got my new Flip camera. Here are two of my better matches out of the day, both against the same opponent. We tie the first match, both scoring a point each, and I carry the second match scoring two points. I'm red first, then white.
I've taken Isshinryu karate for seven years, and am a black belt. However, I didn't practice enough to get useful sparring reflexes, so I still kinda suck.
Isshinryu is mostly katas, with occasional self-defense and sparring - I was fortunate enough to have the head of my dojo also be an instructor in Jeet Kun Do and Kali, so she added a lot more self-defense and sparring techniques that I otherwise might not have learned.
If anyone's in Rochester AND has a car, I studied at a wonderful (and incredibly cheap - $15 a month for 2 classes per week) dojo in the middle of nowhere called Collamer-Jones. The head of the dojo is a badass 60-70 year old woman who teaches Isshinryu, Jeet Kun Do, Kali (a nice Filipino martial art with a lot of stick and knife-fighting), and Iaido (single-player kendo).
We had a practice tournament yesterday and luckily I just got my new Flip camera. Here are two of my better matches out of the day, both against the same opponent. We tie the first match, both scoring a point each, and I carry the second match scoring two points. I'm red first, then white.
Awesome, thanks man. Bloody good video, quite illustrative.
We had a practice tournament yesterday and luckily I just got my new Flip camera. Here are two of my better matches out of the day, both against the same opponent. We tie the first match, both scoring a point each, and I carry the second match scoring two points. I'm red first, then white.
Awesome video. Keep em' coming. I love watching Kendo stuff. I haven't practiced in about six months. Makes me jealous.
I've taken Isshinryu karate for seven years, and am a black belt. However, I didn't practice enough to get useful sparring reflexes, so I still kinda suck.
Isshinryu is mostly katas, with occasional self-defense and sparring - I was fortunate enough to have the head of my dojo also be an instructor in Jeet Kun Do and Kali, so she added a lot more self-defense and sparring techniques that I otherwise might not have learned.
If anyone's in Rochester AND has a car, I studied at a wonderful (and incredibly cheap - $15 a month for 2 classes per week) dojo in the middle of nowhere called Collamer-Jones. The head of the dojo is a badass 60-70 year old woman who teaches Isshinryu, Jeet Kun Do, Kali (a nice Filipino martial art with a lot of stick and knife-fighting), and Iaido (single-player kendo).
Whoa, that's where I took karate when I was in high school! I really want to go back to Isshinryuu and get my blackbelt someday. The master is so cool, isn't she!
B0o-yah! School has started again, so I have started training again. I've worked out three times this week, and have really been able to see how far I have come because of all the new people in our class. It's odd. Apparently I'm getting good at this? Fail: Thanks to having class 3 times a week, I sparred very hard Friday night, and messed up my ear trying to get out of a triangle. Now I have a little bit of cauliflower ear. Fuck.
Had my first tournament this weekend. I'm really happy with the way I was able to execute my kendo though I didn't get past the quarterfinals for my division.
(I'm in white) Even though I lost, I'm really happy with the Ippon I got and I think of all the matches I learned the most from this one. Hopefully I will continue to improve.
Andrew: awesome stuff, keep it up. I have just started Kendo (well, just started before heading to work, I'll be back in again once I get back to the states). Its great, exactly what I was looking for. I'm not very far into it yet, but I'm really looking forward to progressing.
Comments
What kind of background are you coming at this from? This sounds like karate stuff. Ever done any boxing?
Of course, you can't forecast a fight, but whatever.
EDIT: Keep in mind that I'm tell you guys what I know about this anatomically. It's been years (nearing a decade) since I practiced a martial art.
I'm excited to see a martial arts thread on the forums. It's a passion of mine.
I coached kendo for two years here in Tokyo to junior high kids, even though I'm not that great at it. I also fought in two amateur Muay Thai matches and managed to win the first one and draw the second. I'm training for a possible third match after the new year, but the brain damage and damage to my body is a problem.
If anyone comes to Tokyo for TGS or any other related visit please come by my gym for sparring/fighting and training with Thai pros! It's a great work out and a lot of fun. PM me if you're coming by this way.
I trained in TKD for about six years when I was a child. It was a fun martial art. I've been knocked out very briefly in TKD sparring once, probably because we were taught to keep our hands low. I love the high fancy kicks; nothing like seeing someone get their face bashed in with an axekick!
My favorite fight that was on Japanese TV was when destroyed Bob Sapp. Before the fight Cro-Cop said he was going to be a giant killer and the weight difference wouldn't matter. If you don't want to watch the whole thing, it gets exciting at 1:28 or so. This was back when K-1 still allowed clinching, the new rules are terrible.
Boxing has its price.
I've taken Isshinryu karate for seven years, and am a black belt. However, I didn't practice enough to get useful sparring reflexes, so I still kinda suck.
Isshinryu is mostly katas, with occasional self-defense and sparring - I was fortunate enough to have the head of my dojo also be an instructor in Jeet Kun Do and Kali, so she added a lot more self-defense and sparring techniques that I otherwise might not have learned.
If anyone's in Rochester AND has a car, I studied at a wonderful (and incredibly cheap - $15 a month for 2 classes per week) dojo in the middle of nowhere called Collamer-Jones. The head of the dojo is a badass 60-70 year old woman who teaches Isshinryu, Jeet Kun Do, Kali (a nice Filipino martial art with a lot of stick and knife-fighting), and Iaido (single-player kendo).
Fail: Thanks to having class 3 times a week, I sparred very hard Friday night, and messed up my ear trying to get out of a triangle. Now I have a little bit of cauliflower ear. Fuck.
(I'm in white)
Even though I lost, I'm really happy with the Ippon I got and I think of all the matches I learned the most from this one. Hopefully I will continue to improve.
Double Booyah: Because I'm 16 now, I tested for an adult rank. No more skunk belt!