You can't hold Linux itself in your hands, for example. You can carry something that holds it, and or something that's running it, but the running program itself is not a physical entity.
Well, I wouldarguebickerthat every instance of Linux, every conception, even every idea about it, is a physical thing (by nature of being a collection of physical things). You can very well hold "Linux" in your hands, and there is no example of it that you can't. There just happen to be millions of physical copies of "Linux." Parts of them are stored in the arrangement of the matter and energy inside of some people's brains. Other parts of them are stored in the arrangement of the matter and energy inside of hard drives or flash drives or CD ROMs.
An idea, even in its most abstract sense, is a physical thing, made of physical components, that spreads by causing other matter to maintain a similar configuration (or, in the very least, an analogous configuration).
You very well can hold Linux in your hands. There is no Linux that is not comprised of the arrangement of matter and energy.
I think Churba's point was that you can fix a carbureted 1967 Mustang with a clothes hanger and duct tape, not so much a computer controlled AWD Impreza STi.
Does anyone else here modify their cars? I must admit to completely ruining the ride of my SAAB by putting a "sporty" suspension on it. What I ended up with was springs that weren't firm enough to keep body roll under control and shocks so firm that I might as well be riding on cider blocks instead. This was alright in suburban PA and rural GA, but here in urban VA it's just god damn intolerable. All the imperfections in the road, and there are lots, are transferred directly to the chassis. I've got a brand new stock sport suspension kit ready to install on the car, just waiting on new bump stops (didn't come with them for the front for reason I can't fathom). Now that I've got a new suspension ready I'm really noticed just how horrid and uncomfortable the ride is in my car.
Well, I wouldarguebickerthat every instance of Linux, every conception, even every idea about it, is a physical thing (by nature of being a collection of physical things). You can very well hold "Linux" in your hands, and there is no example of it that you can't. There just happen to be millions of physical copies of "Linux." Parts of them are stored in the arrangement of the matter and energy inside of some people's brains. Other parts of them are stored in the arrangement of the matter and energy inside of hard drives or flash drives or CD ROMs.
No, computers are magic and work via supernatural means.
I'm learning more about my car, and seeing if I can do cool techie things. It's really sad how most (if not all) diagnostic tools for cars are expensive proprietary bs.
I just installed a really bad-ass speaker system in my civic. Apparently, when the last owner upgraded the stereo, they forgot to upgrade the speakers with it, and consequently had a stereo with an RMS higher than the speakers' max. All four speakers were blown. Now the new speakers have a max of 90 (front) and 120 (rear), while the stereo out puts a max of 50.
When I was upgrading the speakers, I had the same sort of experience as when I first upgraded a computer. At first I was scared I'd ruin everything and it would catch on fire, but after I actually heard sound coming out of the new speakers, Oh manz, was I relieved, excited, and feeling awesome, all in one.
I think Churba's point was that you can fix a carbureted 1967 Mustang with a clothes hanger and duct tape, not so much a computer controlled AWD Impreza STi.
Not quite - My point was that Cars and computers are equally complex, just in different ways. For example, Scott probably knows how to change his own oil(regardless of if he actually does or not), and he knows how to drive. Can he diagnose anything more than the most simple problem and fix that problem with his car without help? No. He goes to a mechanic for that. But he can write a program like a motherfucker. When it comes to computers, he has his shit down, and knows what the hell is going on.
I can completely tear down, rebuild and tune an engine. Put your car in my hands, and I can make that fucker sing like Sarah Brightman, and behind the wheel I'll amaze and astound you like Houdini in his prime. Computers? I use them, I'm decent with them, I'd even say I'm pretty good, compared to your average user. Can I write anything more than a basic program? Good luck. Can I diagnose and fix a problem without help? Tell him he's dreamin'. lackofcheese and ThaneofCawdor just sniggered slightly.
Though, I do get Rym's point - I didn't think of it that way. As a statement, it was fundamentally flawed. But I'm pretty sure you get what I'm clumsily attempting to get at in my own sweary, idiotic fashion.
I love to drive my little Blue Hyundai Accent from 2002. I loved driving through Clifton road, Va on the way to my University, it was the best driving feeling ever, specially during a nice summer afternoon just before the end of the spring semester. I on the other hand do not like long drives (2 or more hours long) where the terrain is "vanilla" and very little exciment can be found.
Cars are mechanically complex, allowing direct interaction with the system, whereas the electronic complexity of a computer often means that you're working with an abstraction of the system. It's sort of like the difference between a guitar and a piano; the guitar involves the direct manipulation of the strings, whereas the piano has keys and hammers, which changes the nature of the instrument.
Cars are mechanically complex, allowing direct interaction with the system, whereas the electronic complexity of a computer often means that you're working with an abstraction of the system. It's sort of like the difference between a guitar and a piano; the guitar involves the direct manipulation of the strings, whereas the piano has keys and hammers, which changes the nature of the instrument.
Thank you! That's exactly what I'm too goddamn stupid to be able to say.
Cars are mechanically complex, allowing direct interaction with the system, whereas the electronic complexity of a computer often means that you're working with an abstraction of the system. It's sort of like the difference between a guitar and a piano; the guitar involves the direct manipulation of the strings, whereas the piano has keys and hammers, which changes the nature of the instrument.
A piano is no more an abstraction of the system than a guitar. With a piano, you have a lot of control over exactly how the instrument sounds. You can tune each individual string for each individual key, play each note with varying velocity, adjust the sound on the fly with the pedals; I could go on.
Same with Guitars. The tone of the guitar depends on the wood for an acoustic or the pickups for an electric. You can add distortion, change the key by properly adjusting the strings, choose what kind of strings you want, etc...
A more apt comparison of instruments to cars and computers would not be to put up an artificial wall between the guitars and the pianos, but to understand that they all operate on similar fundamentals and that they are all good in their own right.
A more apt comparison of instruments to cars and computers would not be to put up an artificial wall between the guitars and the pianos, but to understand that they all operate on similar fundamentals and that they are all good in their own right.
Well, yeah, but I wasn't trying to make an apt comparison between the two; I only meant to compare their basic mechanism of operation. With a guitar you pluck the strings with your fingers, with a piano you hit a key than moves a hammer that hits the string. With a car you move the parts around with your hands, with a computer you move the bits around with keystrokes that form code, which is compiled into something the computer can understand and execute. Every other comparison between any object or system involved is irrelevant to the point I was trying to illustrate.
Modern cars and computers both have mechanical, electronic, and software components. Both computers and cars are, at the highest level (and this is the one most people use them on), abstractions.
With a car you use your hands to input data. With a computer you use your hands to input data. So, what is the difference between a computer and a car?
Modern cars and computers both have mechanical, electronic, and software components. Both computers and cars are, at the highest level (and this is the one most people use them on), abstractions.
With a car you use your hands to input data. With a computer you use your hands to input data. So, what is the difference between a computer and a car?
You're taking my point out of context. Read the conversation that Churba and Rym were having; I was trying to clarify Churba's feelings about working with a car vs. working with a computer.
Modern cars and computers both have mechanical, electronic, and software components. Both computers and cars are, at the highest level (and this is the one most people use them on), abstractions.
With a car you use your hands to input data. With a computer you use your hands to input data. So, what is the difference between a computer and a car?
You're taking my point out of context. Read the conversation that Churba and Rym were having; I was trying to clarify Churba's feelings about working with a car vs. working with a computer.
Try again. My point is that neither the car nor computer have "direct" interaction.
All I was trying to say is that if you want to mess about with the bits that make up an engine you can do so your with your bare hands (which makes it more comfortable and easy to understand for some), but if you want to mess about with the bits that make up a Linux distro you have to have other bits inbetween because most people's hands aren't that small.
My point is that neither the car nor computer have "direct" interaction.
They do if you're a mechanic. I suppose screwdrivers or wrenches have to come inbetween you and the engine at some point, but I think comparing that to C++ is a bit of a stretch.
All I was trying to say is that if you want to mess about with the bits that make up an engine you can do so your with your bare hands (which makes it more comfortable and easy to understand for some), but if you want to mess about with the bits that make up a Linux distro you have to have other bits inbetween because most people's hands aren't that small.
You're using the wrong analogy. You can, for example, replace the CPU of a computer using your bare hands.
I think we need to clarify what "direct" interaction is, as well.
Can he [Scott] diagnose anything more than the most simple problem and fix that problem with his car without help? No. He goes to a mechanic for that. But he can write a program like a motherfucker...
I can completely tear down, rebuild and tune an engine. Put your car in my hands, and I can make that fucker sing like Sarah Brightman, and behind the wheel I'll amaze and astound you like Houdini in his prime. Computers? I use them, I'm decent with them, I'd even say I'm pretty good, compared to your average user. Can I write anything more than a basic program? Good luck.
My impression was that Churba was comparing working on a computer on a high level to working on a car on a low level, and I came in because I thought I had a succinct way of articulating why he prefers one over the other. I suppose using the words "computer programming" or "software" instead of "computer" would have made things more clear.
I think we need to clarify what "direct" interaction is, as well.
Well, goddamnit, you've kept me up until 4:00 AM with this argumentbickering discussion, so we'll define that after I've slept for a few hours.
So, what is the difference between a computer and a car?
I can't run you over with my laptop, and I can't play Counterstrike on my Falcon.
My impression was that Churba was comparing working on a computer on a high level to working on a car on a low level, and I came in because I thought I had a succinct way of articulating why he prefers one over the other.
Essentially, yes. You took my point, and you made it make some form of sense. Ya pointy ears bastard. Also, I was pointing out that Something Hardware, like rebuilding an engine, and something software, like Programming, can be equally complex and difficult, just in different ways.
Günter confirmed for being an elf-heretic with poor diplomacy skills compared to cheese.
Also, I was pointing out that Something Hardware, like rebuilding an engine, and something software, like Programming, can be equally complex and difficult, just in different ways.
As a general rule, however, nanoscale systems have much more potential for meaningful complexity.
As a general rule, however, nanoscale systems have much more potential for meaningful complexity.
That's a completely false assumption. Just because a computer can do more varied things (and lets be honest, it can only crunch and compare numbers in the end) does not mean it can do more "meaningful" things. That's just saying that based on MY criteria the computer is more meaningful, but if you were a formula 1 driver, the car's engineering would be much more meaningful. The car is designed to fill a niche role in our lives, and doing it with the level of refinement and efficiency we expect these days, it is a very advanced piece of kit.
ADD + Operating an Automated Motor Vehicle x the Road = a cyanide laced cocktail
That's completely false, I have hardcore ADHD and I think it makes me a sharper driver for it. Having your attention divided is what good driving is all about, you need to be constantly aware of the changing conditions around you.
Couple tips: 1. Become bored with your car, get in it and press all the buttons so you're not interested in playing with them while you're driving. 2. Drive a stick shift if you can. This will keep you engaged in the process of driving the car. 3. Keep your car clean. You don't want things hanging from the mirror swinging about or rolling around in the foot well and these will distract you while you're driving. 4. Bring good music for highway trips, or you will become bored of driving.
Comments
When I was upgrading the speakers, I had the same sort of experience as when I first upgraded a computer. At first I was scared I'd ruin everything and it would catch on fire, but after I actually heard sound coming out of the new speakers, Oh manz, was I relieved, excited, and feeling awesome, all in one.
I can completely tear down, rebuild and tune an engine. Put your car in my hands, and I can make that fucker sing like Sarah Brightman, and behind the wheel I'll amaze and astound you like Houdini in his prime. Computers? I use them, I'm decent with them, I'd even say I'm pretty good, compared to your average user. Can I write anything more than a basic program? Good luck. Can I diagnose and fix a problem without help? Tell him he's dreamin'. lackofcheese and ThaneofCawdor just sniggered slightly.
Though, I do get Rym's point - I didn't think of it that way. As a statement, it was fundamentally flawed. But I'm pretty sure you get what I'm clumsily attempting to get at in my own sweary, idiotic fashion.
I on the other hand do not like long drives (2 or more hours long) where the terrain is "vanilla" and very little exciment can be found.
Same with Guitars. The tone of the guitar depends on the wood for an acoustic or the pickups for an electric. You can add distortion, change the key by properly adjusting the strings, choose what kind of strings you want, etc...
A more apt comparison of instruments to cars and computers would not be to put up an artificial wall between the guitars and the pianos, but to understand that they all operate on similar fundamentals and that they are all good in their own right.
With a car you use your hands to input data. With a computer you use your hands to input data. So, what is the difference between a computer and a car?
And to answer your question, they already have boyfriends.
And to answer your next question, because the man-code prohibits it.
And to answer your next question, Now you're going up against the law.
And to answer your next question, Is there something wrong with you? O.o
I think we need to clarify what "direct" interaction is, as well.
Also, I was pointing out that Something Hardware, like rebuilding an engine, and something software, like Programming, can be equally complex and difficult, just in different ways.
Couple tips:
1. Become bored with your car, get in it and press all the buttons so you're not interested in playing with them while you're driving.
2. Drive a stick shift if you can. This will keep you engaged in the process of driving the car.
3. Keep your car clean. You don't want things hanging from the mirror swinging about or rolling around in the foot well and these will distract you while you're driving.
4. Bring good music for highway trips, or you will become bored of driving.