I agree that it's part of the game, I don't agree that it makes it worse or better for it, it's just what it is.
Therefore it logically follows that the Winner of the World Cup is not necessarily the team which is best at the athletic component of the game. Agree?
It's the best team at playing soccer, yes.
Even with your perfect rules, the winner of any tournament match is down to who's the luckiest one in the end, it's mostly skill in the first rounds, but it always dissolves into luck at the end.
Even with your perfect rules, the winner of any tournament match is down to who's the luckiest one in the end, it's mostly skill in the first rounds, but it always dissolves into luck at the end.
If it's luck, then who gives one flying fuck who wins? It's entirely arbitrary.
Even with your perfect rules, the winner of any tournament match is down to who's the luckiest one in the end, it's mostly skill in the first rounds, but it always dissolves into luck at the end.
Do you agree that if changes like the ones we are suggesting were implemented, that the luck factor would be significantly reduced if not effectively eliminated?
Even with your perfect rules, the winner of any tournament match is down to who's the luckiest one in the end, it's mostly skill in the first rounds, but it always dissolves into luck at the end.
If it's luck, then who gives one flying fuck who wins? It's entirely arbitrary.
Why do you even give a fuck about sports then? it's not you playing, you don't gain anything from who wins or looses?
It's the best team at playing soccer, yes.
Soccer, where cheating is actually part of the gameTM!
I'm sorry to inform you that cheating is part of every sport and game.
I'm sorry to inform you that cheating is part of every sport and game.
Please show where cheating takes place in the sport of ice hockey. Also please show evidence of any cheating in baseball since the end of the steroid era (not before). Also please show evidence of cheating in tennis or golf.
I'm sorry to inform you that cheating is part of every sport and game.
Please show where cheating takes place in the sport of ice hockey. Also please show evidence of any cheating in baseball since the end of the steroid era (not before). Also please show evidence of cheating in tennis or golf.
There is always a way, and it's stupid to think that any game is impervious to cheating.
I'm sorry to inform you that cheating is part of every sport and game.
Ahh, but no other sport arbitrarily condones or promotes it's existence.
Hockey condones fistfights. Soccer doesn't condone or promote cheating, just how many good calls you get per game for every bad one?
Hockey condones fistfights. Soccer doesn't condone or promote cheating, just how many good calls you get per game for every bad one?
What does fighting have anything to do with cheating? You said so yourself that trying to deceive the refs is part of soccer. That's cheating. Every dive, every bitch session holding your knee on the ground. Besides, the amount of bad calls in the World Cup this year is extremely disproportionate to other sports.
There is always a way, and it's stupid to think that any game is impervious to cheating.
That wasn't an answer.
Hockey condones fistfights.
How is this relevant?
Soccer doesn't condone or promote cheating
It has rules against certain things, but very fallible means of enforcing said rules. It is thus in every team's best self interest to attempt to break these rules if they believe they can get away with it, while also attempting to draw the other team into breaking the rules when they won't get away with it. Simple theory at work.
So, you didn't address any of his points, and furthermore failed to actually make new ones. Good game.
What does fighting have anything to do with cheating?
Well, its something you penalize in other games, just because you gave up on it and made it legal, it doesn't make it right. You say that I'm just maintaining the status quo of the game. What is the purpose of the fist fights? Why don't you change it? Wouldn't it make the game better?
Please show where cheating takes place in the sport of ice hockey. Also please show evidence of any cheating in baseball since the end of the steroid era (not before). Also please show evidence of cheating in tennis or golf.
You have spying, point shaving, doping, purposely injuring players, bowing down to the sponsors so the more popular players can get the win (this is more for motorsports).
Hockey condones fighting, but fighting isn't cheating. They have a rule for it. Now, if you see someone fighting who doesn't get put in the penalty box, then you have cheating. Everyone in hockey who fights gets judged fairly according to the rules, and it does not change the result of the game unfairly.
In soccer they have a rule for simulation, but it is almost never called. Let us look, for our example, at college American football. Here you have kids, they are not as tough as NFL players. They are wearing armor, but they are also getting crushed. The armor doesn't help much. When they fall over, they get back up almost immediately. If they are slow to get up, their teammates help them get up within seconds. The only time they fail to get up is if they have a truly serious injury. They will either limp off the field or be taken off in a stretcher.
I'm not even going to mention ice hockey where people lose teeth, get root canals from the team dentist in the locker room, then come back on the ice. Oh wait, I just did.
In soccer people fall over. That's understandable. If two people are running and attempting to kick the same ball, falling down will happen. However, if there is not an actual injury that will result in at least limping off the field, then a player should be able to stand back up almost immediately. Every time a player stays on the ground for more than a few seconds, and then eventually resumes playing, it is obviously fake. I have only seen one simulation call in all the matches I have watched. Yet, if I were the referee, I would be calling it constantly, at least until the players stopped acting.
You can also compare soccer to every other sport in the world in the way players act when they are injured. Just look at the body language of players in any sport who are legitimately injured. Soccer is the only one that is different from the rest. There is no question they are all faking.
Well, I let out one possibility. Maybe all the soccer players are sissies who do legitimately need to go cry to mommy for every little boo boo.
You have spying, point shaving, doping, purposely injuring players, bowing down to the sponsors so the more popular players can get the win (this is more for motorsports).
Cheating simply means that you break the rules of the game. Everyone breaks the rules of games at some point, intentionally or unintentionally. However, it's not a problem if you are caught and face the consequences. The New England Patriots spied on the Jets, and were caught and punished. Players using performance enhancing drugs have been caught and punished according to the rules. Many sports now have extensive testing. The extreme improvement in MLB pitching this year is pretty strong evidence that drug testing has decreased performance enhanced hitting.
Yes, people will get away with cheating. It happens. The thing is, the sports do the best job they can to catch cheaters and make them face the consequences. They don't let everyone play with corked bats and punish just one person to make an example. They check them all to make sure.
In soccer it is taken to a whole new level. Yes, people are trying to take advantage of the rules to win, just like every other sport. The problem isn't that players are attempting to cheat. The problem is that the effort to crack down on cheating is well below even basic measures. People try to cheat at many sports, but those sporting leagues are all doing their best to catch people. FIFA is letting people get away with cheating. And not just any cheating. We're talking about cheating on the field in plain sight on live television that the entire world can see, in almost every game.
At least FIFA is addressing the issue by apologizing for letting anyone in the stadium see the truth of the call, and promising to censor any future displays of what actually happened on the field after a bad call is made.
And with that new development I think I'm officially done. I was getting interested when the world cup started, but I've pretty much lost all interest due to this bullshit. I used to want soccer to become popular in the US. If it is played without this bullshit, then it would be pretty terrific.
But now, after all this, I've changed my mind. I want soccer to fail. I hope nothing ever happens to make it popular in the USA. Well, unless they fix it.
At leastFIFA is addressing the issueby apologizing for letting anyone in the stadium see the truth of the call, and promising to censor any future displays of what actually happened on the field after a bad call is made.
And here we observe the eternal bipolar disorder shown by all sport fans in the USA. They'll never understand.
My interest didn't change at all after the US lost. I am rooting mostly for Germany, and the US played like balls in the game that they lost (fair and square).
Even if the US had won the entire Cup, I'd be making the same arguments I'm making now. I still root for the Red Wings, even when they lose. I root for the Lions, an exercise in futility at best. You can all assume that we only care if we're winning as much as you want, but our frustration comes solely out of the poor game management we perceive.
FIFA at least agrees with us: they can't show the truth of what happens on the field, or else people will be angry.
Even with your perfect rules, the winner of any tournament match is down to who's the luckiest one in the end, it's mostly skill in the first rounds, but it always dissolves into luck at the end.
I bring this up again because it bears repeating.
Not all tournaments are luck-based. Serious gamers are interested in skill, and work to minimize the influence of luck in their games. Anyone who actively wishes to increase the amount of luck involved is basically more interested in gambling than gaming.
I wish the US had won, but not just because that's my country. I wish they had won because I could then make this same exact argument about the sport having serious flaws without accusations of being a sore loser. For the record, I was making these same complaints while the US was doing well. It is coincidence that the frequency of very significant incorrect decisions happened on the same day the US lost. The camels back just happened to be broken on the day of the US' elimination. Also, for the record, I was rooting for Germany over Albion, and the poor decision in that game was in Germany's favor.
Also, I think the problem is made worse by the arrogance of FIFA. Look at MLB. They are also rooted in their old ways and traditions. They have shunned all video replay until very recently, and are only using it in very limited fashion. Recently there was a tremendously bad call that made news for two days. An umpire called the final runner safe at first when he was clearly out. Not that big a deal, except for the fact it was the final out of a perfect game. Like FIFA, MLB did not reverse the call.
However, you don't see me complaining, that much, about MLB. It's because their attitude was completely different. The umpire admitted his mistake. He apologized profusely. He knew he was wrong. Everyone admits that it was wrong, the only dick part of it was that the commissioner won't let it go on the books as a perfect game. Still, there are no dicks out there telling the pitcher he didn't pitch a perfect game. Everyone knows it, and admits it, and gives him due credit, even though it's not written on the official record books.
FIFA on the other hand just give you a big old middle finger and a 1984 style whitewash. Nothing to see here. The referee is infallible. If he says it didn't go over the line, then it didn't go over the line, even if the entire world has access to undeniable video evidence. The arrogance is infuriating, and stereotypically European. Get some humility and we'll at least be able to respect you even if we disagree.
Comments
Even with your perfect rules, the winner of any tournament match is down to who's the luckiest one in the end, it's mostly skill in the first rounds, but it always dissolves into luck at the end.
So, you didn't address any of his points, and furthermore failed to actually make new ones. Good game.
In soccer they have a rule for simulation, but it is almost never called. Let us look, for our example, at college American football. Here you have kids, they are not as tough as NFL players. They are wearing armor, but they are also getting crushed. The armor doesn't help much. When they fall over, they get back up almost immediately. If they are slow to get up, their teammates help them get up within seconds. The only time they fail to get up is if they have a truly serious injury. They will either limp off the field or be taken off in a stretcher.
I'm not even going to mention ice hockey where people lose teeth, get root canals from the team dentist in the locker room, then come back on the ice. Oh wait, I just did.
In soccer people fall over. That's understandable. If two people are running and attempting to kick the same ball, falling down will happen. However, if there is not an actual injury that will result in at least limping off the field, then a player should be able to stand back up almost immediately. Every time a player stays on the ground for more than a few seconds, and then eventually resumes playing, it is obviously fake. I have only seen one simulation call in all the matches I have watched. Yet, if I were the referee, I would be calling it constantly, at least until the players stopped acting.
You can also compare soccer to every other sport in the world in the way players act when they are injured. Just look at the body language of players in any sport who are legitimately injured. Soccer is the only one that is different from the rest. There is no question they are all faking.
Well, I let out one possibility. Maybe all the soccer players are sissies who do legitimately need to go cry to mommy for every little boo boo.
Meanwhile, in reality...
Yes, people will get away with cheating. It happens. The thing is, the sports do the best job they can to catch cheaters and make them face the consequences. They don't let everyone play with corked bats and punish just one person to make an example. They check them all to make sure.
In soccer it is taken to a whole new level. Yes, people are trying to take advantage of the rules to win, just like every other sport. The problem isn't that players are attempting to cheat. The problem is that the effort to crack down on cheating is well below even basic measures. People try to cheat at many sports, but those sporting leagues are all doing their best to catch people. FIFA is letting people get away with cheating. And not just any cheating. We're talking about cheating on the field in plain sight on live television that the entire world can see, in almost every game.
Regardless, VTEC just kicked in yo. Just a bit too late Slovakia.
FIFA's response to televising bad officiating: stop televising it. EDIT: 5 seconds! *shakes fist*
Jinx.
But now, after all this, I've changed my mind. I want soccer to fail. I hope nothing ever happens to make it popular in the USA. Well, unless they fix it.
Meh, it was more like a feeble life raft.
Even if the US had won the entire Cup, I'd be making the same arguments I'm making now. I still root for the Red Wings, even when they lose. I root for the Lions, an exercise in futility at best. You can all assume that we only care if we're winning as much as you want, but our frustration comes solely out of the poor game management we perceive.
FIFA at least agrees with us: they can't show the truth of what happens on the field, or else people will be angry. I bring this up again because it bears repeating.
Not all tournaments are luck-based. Serious gamers are interested in skill, and work to minimize the influence of luck in their games. Anyone who actively wishes to increase the amount of luck involved is basically more interested in gambling than gaming.
Also, I think the problem is made worse by the arrogance of FIFA. Look at MLB. They are also rooted in their old ways and traditions. They have shunned all video replay until very recently, and are only using it in very limited fashion. Recently there was a tremendously bad call that made news for two days. An umpire called the final runner safe at first when he was clearly out. Not that big a deal, except for the fact it was the final out of a perfect game. Like FIFA, MLB did not reverse the call.
However, you don't see me complaining, that much, about MLB. It's because their attitude was completely different. The umpire admitted his mistake. He apologized profusely. He knew he was wrong. Everyone admits that it was wrong, the only dick part of it was that the commissioner won't let it go on the books as a perfect game. Still, there are no dicks out there telling the pitcher he didn't pitch a perfect game. Everyone knows it, and admits it, and gives him due credit, even though it's not written on the official record books.
FIFA on the other hand just give you a big old middle finger and a 1984 style whitewash. Nothing to see here. The referee is infallible. If he says it didn't go over the line, then it didn't go over the line, even if the entire world has access to undeniable video evidence. The arrogance is infuriating, and stereotypically European. Get some humility and we'll at least be able to respect you even if we disagree.