Compared to people of similar experience and qualifications, I'm considered underpayed in this industry... I'm surrounded at all sides by people who make substantially more than I do.
Also, if I were a dick, I could probably leave where I'm at (a company I actually care about!) and clear an extra 50-60k with some big bank or hedge fund.
Out of curiosity, which of those experiences and qualifications would you attribute to your education/extracurriculars at RIT, as opposed to on-the-job experiences and self-driven research?
At 75K/year I've found a comfortable mix of compensation and lack of responsibility that I find more or less ideal, and that's why I've been at this level for nearly a decade (with small merit raises that help me ALMOST keep par with inflation, until recently.)
You guys are all doing very well for yourselves at a young age. The average American makes so much less... I think its like 20k? Where I'm from, you're in the money if you make 40k+.
All this salary talk makes me suddenly realize I am one of those meek women that sucks at negotiating (as in, I took the offer right away), therefore seems to make less money than the avg web dev ._.; I'll give my company the benefit of the doubt though that the original offer wasn't purposely low because I'm a woman, and that it was a fair starting point. (Which many companies unfortunately don't do, which is why bad negotiating isn't to blame for women making less than men. We've got a long ways to go with that. Anyway...)
So you're still in the financial sector? Somehow I thought the new job was outside of it.
I am the Vice President of Product Management for a company that makes financial software and runs a trading network. But, I no longer work directly for a Broker-Dealer.
So you're still in the financial sector? Somehow I thought the new job was outside of it.
I am the Vice President of Product Management for a company that makes financial software and runs a trading network. But, I no longer work directly for a Broker-Dealer.
Pretty young for a VP, aren't you? I thought only startups had VPs in the mid 30s, typically.
So you're still in the financial sector? Somehow I thought the new job was outside of it.
I am the Vice President of Product Management for a company that makes financial software and runs a trading network. But, I no longer work directly for a Broker-Dealer.
Pretty young for a VP, aren't you? I thought only startups had VPs in the mid 30s, typically.
It is a start up.
Also, Lyddi, don't feel bad. I'm terrible at negotiating as well. The last time I tried it, I got my ass handed to me by management.
So you're still in the financial sector? Somehow I thought the new job was outside of it.
I am the Vice President of Product Management for a company that makes financial software and runs a trading network. But, I no longer work directly for a Broker-Dealer.
Pretty young for a VP, aren't you? I thought only startups had VPs in the mid 30s, typically.
Rym is 30 even.
And yeah, I know, money ain't everything etc. But still: fuck you, Rym.
I feel like I've had this conversation a lot recently. I also don't have a lot of power in negotiation because for my local area, I make above average for my job title, and I'm not up for a job title promotion until the start of next fiscal year. I'm starting to do my homework though.
Yeah I wasn't trying to start an argument with anyone, no worries. I'm mainly just reflecting at this point. I do agree its an issue, and that its a shame women in general are too timid and accepting, don't ask for more when they should, etc. Its not the ONLY reason we make less (which is what I've heard as an argument before), but its a contributing factor. So if a hiring manager is dealing with a lady, they might purposefully offer less because there's a good chance it will be accepted right away. Yes there are women that don't take that crap, we need more of them >_>
Anyway I'm being unfair to women, its not my being a woman that's at fault for my salary, its my own ignorance with negotiating. I was just so happy to get away from my old extremely low paying job, I jumped at the offer I got without thinking I could get more. I know better now. ^-^
I'm the lowest compensated person in my department for the position I'm in, but I'm no good at negotiation, either, and I've been a pariah there since I had to use FMLA during my second year, seven years ago. Even that hasn't motivated me to go elsewhere because the responsibility:pay ratio and flexible hours are just that convenient.
My boss where I interned told me to always try negotiating.
Yeah, I learned from an expert (Andrew's dad ^-^) that they almost always have a range they can give you, and offer lower in the range. So you are cheating yourself if you don't try adding 5-10k or so because they probably have it in the budget. I think the biggest fear is that you'll lose the offer, but that's irrational because they've already picked you as the best over the other candidates at this point.
Out of curiosity, which of those experiences and qualifications would you attribute to your education/extracurriculars at RIT, as opposed to on-the-job experiences and self-driven research?
Honestly?
At RIT: The RIT Anime Club and RWAG primarily. IBM and non-IT education secondarily.
Pre-RIT? Gamer parents, marching band, and my innate talents.
At RIT, the tech stuff came naturally. I skipped most of my classes that involved computers at RIT. I could pick that stuff up anytime as I needed it, so I wasn't too interested at the time. But I threw myself into my other classes. Argumentation, Music Theory, PTC, etc...: I took more classes like that than anything else in all of my university career.
RIT was pretty-much five years of running the RIT Anime Club, playing games at RWAG, dicking around with the FRC, and taking awesome classes in eclectic subjects.
RIT Anime taught me leadership, management, and forced me to become an excellent speaker (rather than simply a very good one). RWAG got me into serious gaming, which in the course of mastering I became extremely skilled at a number of useful things. IBM taught me how "real" manufacturing and production works, which is a very different ballgame from what most people consider "IT."
I see the big picture, and actually understand the small pieces. I'm an excellent speaker (itself a rare skill/talent), and I can almost always replace knowledge or skill with innate talent and a little logical reverse-engineering. Charisma gets me in the door, talent allows me to deliver post-door.
It's not a startup. We have real customers, mature products, a big revenue stream, etc... It's a small company, but it's been in business for many years.
And yeah, I know, money ain't everything etc. But still: fuck you, Rym.
Hey, want to invest in a brewery Uncle Moneybags?
I was VP before I turned 30. I quit my lucrative job as a "Senior Production Engineer" because I was bored. I held that title for three years prior. I was already a senior-level real-world technologist with industry experience before I turned 22.
And yes, I would seriously consider investing in something like that. ^_~
Being a good speaker is not something I think people focus enough on. I was always trying to get Kelsey to present to the class when she was in college (she hates public speaking) and I tried to do it as much as possible. Even though I'm somewhat shy when meeting people for the first time I try as hard as I can to achieve a certain level of excellence when the time calls for it.
I was a sick kid in elementary and most of junior high and the sharks smelled blood. I was so badly bullied and ostracized that I really didn't have anything resembling social skills until I was almost 20.
I can't really overstate the severity of the bullying. Well, that's hyperbole as I was never hospitalized from any beatings, but it was bad. Ubiquitous, daily, unanimous, and exacerbated by school staff who thought it was a gag.
Sad as it makes me to see how everyone's got so lousy with degrees and cash when I don't even have any plans for a career yet. There's something to be said for going from mild depression to leaving an abusive house for another country in just under a year.
Comments
I work to pay bills. I'm not a career guy.
All this salary talk makes me suddenly realize I am one of those meek women that sucks at negotiating (as in, I took the offer right away), therefore seems to make less money than the avg web dev ._.;
I'll give my company the benefit of the doubt though that the original offer wasn't purposely low because I'm a woman, and that it was a fair starting point. (Which many companies unfortunately don't do, which is why bad negotiating isn't to blame for women making less than men. We've got a long ways to go with that. Anyway...)
Also, Lyddi, don't feel bad. I'm terrible at negotiating as well. The last time I tried it, I got my ass handed to me by management.
And yeah, I know, money ain't everything etc. But still: fuck you, Rym.
Hey, want to invest in a brewery Uncle Moneybags?
Anyway I'm being unfair to women, its not my being a woman that's at fault for my salary, its my own ignorance with negotiating. I was just so happy to get away from my old extremely low paying job, I jumped at the offer I got without thinking I could get more. I know better now. ^-^
At RIT: The RIT Anime Club and RWAG primarily. IBM and non-IT education secondarily.
Pre-RIT? Gamer parents, marching band, and my innate talents.
At RIT, the tech stuff came naturally. I skipped most of my classes that involved computers at RIT. I could pick that stuff up anytime as I needed it, so I wasn't too interested at the time. But I threw myself into my other classes. Argumentation, Music Theory, PTC, etc...: I took more classes like that than anything else in all of my university career.
RIT was pretty-much five years of running the RIT Anime Club, playing games at RWAG, dicking around with the FRC, and taking awesome classes in eclectic subjects.
RIT Anime taught me leadership, management, and forced me to become an excellent speaker (rather than simply a very good one). RWAG got me into serious gaming, which in the course of mastering I became extremely skilled at a number of useful things. IBM taught me how "real" manufacturing and production works, which is a very different ballgame from what most people consider "IT."
I see the big picture, and actually understand the small pieces. I'm an excellent speaker (itself a rare skill/talent), and I can almost always replace knowledge or skill with innate talent and a little logical reverse-engineering. Charisma gets me in the door, talent allows me to deliver post-door.
And yes, I would seriously consider investing in something like that. ^_~
I suppose we all start from different places.