Ok, so I know there is a fanon all about Lyra wanting to have hands and be human and such. Where the fuck did that all come from? Was it all from just the scene of her sitting upright like a person?
Ok, so I know there is a fanon all about Lyra wanting to have hands and be human and such. Where the fuck did that all come from? Was it all from just the scene of her sitting upright like a person?
Yeah pretty much. You need remarkable little to set a whole fanbase thinking the same thing. Andrew Hussie did an experiment once where he added one pixel to a character's face in Homestuck to make a normally poker-faced character smirk during a conversation with a girl, just to see his fanbase explode into shipping.
OK so, I know I'm sort of beating a dead horse (ha!) but, explain certain aspects of the fandom to me. I'm intrigued.
For me, a complete outsider to the whole thing, most of my exposure to MLP has been through links on reddit making fun of the stuff on /r/clopclop
Where does /r/clopclop fall in the fandom? Is it the friendly next door neighbor, the creepy uncle, the cousin in prison, the local deli guy? Based on what I see discussed online, Pony porno is almost synonymous with Bronies.
Where does /r/clopclop fall in the fandom? Is it the friendly next door neighbor, the creepy uncle, the cousin in prison, the local deli guy? Based on what I see discussed online, Pony porno is almost synonymous with Bronies.
Nah, it's a marginal subset who are particularly interested in that; the rest mostly don't care that much. See this survey for an indication of how the fandom feels about it.
How does one figure out the answer to that? I think the majority of fans actively dislike the presense of that segment, but at the end of the day it's not something necessarily harmful and we really just don't want to be associated with it. So the furry uncle/neighbor is probably the obvious social analogue.
I don't think most people are creeped out by the furry aspect (anymore, probably, I dunno, I'm not) but more about the corruption of childhood media for adult entertainment.
I mean, personally, I think you can claim that you keep that shit compartmentalized in your head but I don't buy it. I think it has an erosive effect on what people consider appropriate for small children to be exposed to. Obviously nobody (hopefully) is showing pony vore porn to their 3 year old, but I think the more you intermingle these universes the less people will be likely to notice when it's done in a psychologically or developmentally incorrect way.
Which is a really poor articulation of what I'm trying to say, but I can't do it any better right this minute. :P
Where does /r/clopclop fall in the fandom? Is it the friendly next door neighbor, the creepy uncle, the cousin in prison, the local deli guy? Based on what I see discussed online, Pony porno is almost synonymous with Bronies.
Nah, it's a marginal subset who are particularly interested in that; the rest mostly don't care that much. See this survey for an indication of how the fandom feels about it.
Do you ever take a step back from your perspective and try to introspect about why your instincts tell you what they tell you?
For example, I was initially super disgusted by "that lyra plushie" that everyone probably already knows about. I was actually a bit angry at its existence. But then I tried to figure out why I disliked a thing. Part of it was some natural inclination that someone raping a plushie childrens toy thing was somehow vile. But I couldn't reconcile that with my more rational side that said that anything that goes on between a person and their innanimate personal toys in the privacy of the home is fine and I've got no problem with that.
Why do you think you have the instincts you do about a thing? If you can find a solid rational argument for it that you can hang your hat on, all the better.
I think I was pretty rational (if not very articulate) already. I understand that people can comparmentalize what is adult and what is not, and if they are turned on by children's media, they can keep that private or at least keep it in appropriate circles not involving minors.
What I question is whether things like this have an erosive effect on where "the line" is. I think they do, as a natural part of their existence.
Children are TOO sheltered now, from sharp edges and scary strangers and imaginary terrorist threats and god knows what else, but in other ways they're not sheltered enough, exposed by the internet to things that they're not ready to process in context yet. It's an odd mix.
None of those things disgust me on any level. At best, they're the harmless and hilarious extension of what free culture truly means, rule 34 and all.
If the idea of this bothers you on that level, you need to remember that there is a similar subculture for every single thing you can imagine. Every fandom has a "porny" side. Every single one.
None of those things disgust me on any level. At best, they're the harmless and hilarious extension of what free culture truly means, rule 34 and all.
If the idea of this bothers you on that level, you need to remember that there is a similar subculture for every single thing you can imagine. Every fandom has a "porny" side. Every single one.
Absolutely true, and I honestly believe that every last one of those subcultures seeps slowly into the mainstream, to society's detriment (at least in the case where it regards media intended for children). And I'm not even a bible thumper or anything. :-)
I was asking the question of introspection to you in general. Do you ask yourself why you have your instincts on a thing?
Why do you not believe that a person can be "compartmentalized" about this thing?
I would say that statement said more about you than about them.
I mean, really, for some people there are no barriers for a thing. Those people do exist, certainly. But I also see plenty of people that legitimately are into x and not x+1.
There's no tie at all between who a media is intended to be consumed by and who actually consumes it. There is no such thing as "children's" media in the modern world: everything overlaps.
When I was young, I had 100% reign over my Internet (and pre-Internet) access. No filters, no restrictions, and no oversight. The first thing I ever searched for on the Internet? "Bomb making instructions." Number of bombs made and used for any purpose other than blowing up trashcans in the woods? Zero.
Children need to grow up learning that wandering around online is like wandering around outside. Net-savvy parents need to teach their kids to be the same way at a very early age. Filters are useless. Culture is evolving more rapidly than flesh. Adapt or be obsolete. ;^)
There's no tie at all between who a media is intended to be consumed by and who actually consumes it. There is no such thing as "children's" media in the modern world: everything overlaps.
When I was young, I had 100% reign over my Internet (and pre-Internet) access. No filters, no restrictions, and no oversight. The first thing I ever searched for on the Internet? "Bomb making instructions." Number of bombs made and used for any purpose other than blowing up trashcans in the woods? Zero.
Children need to grow up learning that wandering around online is like wandering around outside. Net-savvy parents need to teach their kids to be the same way at a very early age. Filters are useless. Culture is evolving more rapidly than flesh. Adapt or be obsolete. ;^)
There's bomb making and then there's rotten.com and spacedicks. I had an unfiltered internet, too. At 14. I wouldn't want my 13 year old stumbling across some of the stuff I did. If you don't think the internet makes people jaded and desensitized... I don't know where to begin. :-)
muppet, you see through the lens of the outsider and are fed by the stereotypes, the hysterics, and exaggerations of the unnatural that have been painted of the MLPFIM Community. Its such a common thing in the representations of people and cultures that I do not blame you.
Its too bad, i was in the fandom from the early days, and have been actively participating in the creation aspects of it as well as the sustainment of the fandom. I am mainly an artist, as well as participating in game creation content, and the amount of creative output and input day by day astounds me. Art and Crafts, Creative Fiction, Music, Videos, Games, Animation; the creative wellspring is deep. Here is a recent, wonderful WIP example:
and an older, still in progress work:
If you would like to see what games the fandom come up with, this is a great place to start: http://www.equestriagaming.com/
How about a site dedicated to various brony variety shows and talk shows? : http://everfreeradio.com/
At the same time, the good that have come from a sustained community culture to be sharing, charitable people that try to parallel the message in the show, has seen donations to many children charities, the Humble Indie Bundle, as well as most recently a concluded charity for the building of a school and hospital in Africa. Here is a site showcasing the many charities that we have been involved with: http://broniesforgood.org/
My sole question for you is this: did you engage us on this thread from the get go, with a focus on negative aspects, like Pony Slash Fiction, and other media flamed topics like Clopfiction, rather than spending the time researching on the community, its different faces, and the many segments of it, beforehand?
Even if you do not like the show, i believe it is something you should had done at least, to try to come up with a better, more balanced viewpoint when you engage us. Your earlier post insinuates that Pony Porn= Bronies, indeed a sad state of affairs the media and hysterics has turned the representation of the fandom into...and does tell me you did not bother looking beyond what we presented.
But as said before, I do not blame you, i just do remember the early days of the fandom fondly is all. For every so called insidious seepage of gross adult content, there is much more that have been done that is good, creative, and inspiring. You may be the one too jaded here.
I wouldn't want my 13 year old stumbling across some of the stuff I did. If you don't think the internet makes people jaded and desensitized... I don't know where to begin. :-)
Kids who can't self-avoid or deal with what they find on the Internet will have far more problems later in life than kids who become a little jaded in my opinion.
You can't filter the "bad" stuff. Our culture has to evolve such that the "bad" stuff on the Internet is treated the same as the "bad" stuff in meatspace. Sentiment has no bearing, because there is literally no way to prevent a kids from having access to the "bad stuff" without crippling them in terms of their connectivity to the world.
Parents have to provide context. That's all that can be done. Explain the history of Goatse when they find it, and tell them about the first time you saw it. When they find rotten.com, let them know you saw the same thing around their age.
muppet, you see through the lens of the outsider and are fed by the stereotypes, the hysterics, and exaggerations of the unnatural that have been painted of the MLPFIM Community. Its such a common thing in the representations of people and cultures that I do not blame you.
Whoa whoa whoa wait a minute there. I fully qualified my questions with "as an outsider, here's the representation I've seen." Then I asked what part that subculture plays in the fandom as a whole. I didn't assume it was prevalent or primary, I asked.
Then I went on to comment specifically about only that aspect, not the fandom as a whole.
I just want to make sure we're on the same page here.
I wouldn't want my 13 year old stumbling across some of the stuff I did. If you don't think the internet makes people jaded and desensitized... I don't know where to begin. :-)
Kids who can't self-avoid or deal with what they find on the Internet will have far more problems later in life than kids who become a little jaded in my opinion.
You can't filter the "bad" stuff. Our culture has to evolve such that the "bad" stuff on the Internet is treated the same as the "bad" stuff in meatspace. Sentiment has no bearing, because there is literally no way to prevent a kids from having access to the "bad stuff" without crippling them in terms of their connectivity to the world.
Parents have to provide context. That's all that can be done. Explain the history of Goatse when they find it, and tell them about the first time you saw it. When they find rotten.com, let them know you saw the same thing around their age.
No, sorry, we have very different philosophies here. I think that humans are not ready for certain things at certain ages. This is why we have terms like "shell shock" and "PTSD" for people whose lives have been ruined by exposure to horrors they can't process. No amount of parental context is going to make that problem go away.
Granted, Goatse is not PTSD territory but it's on a spectrum somewhere between fuzzy bunnies and PTSD.
I don't think my 13 year old daughter needs to see crime scene photos of mutilated corpses, then have them explained to her, to grow as a person.
I don't know what the solution is but it's not Alistair Crowley. :-)
Comments
EDIT:
Also, ponies playing with pony toys!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lauren_Faust
http://mlpfanart.wikia.com/wiki/Lyra#Lyra_memes suggests as much.
For me, a complete outsider to the whole thing, most of my exposure to MLP has been through links on reddit making fun of the stuff on /r/clopclop
Where does /r/clopclop fall in the fandom? Is it the friendly next door neighbor, the creepy uncle, the cousin in prison, the local deli guy? Based on what I see discussed online, Pony porno is almost synonymous with Bronies.
See this survey for an indication of how the fandom feels about it.
I mean, personally, I think you can claim that you keep that shit compartmentalized in your head but I don't buy it. I think it has an erosive effect on what people consider appropriate for small children to be exposed to. Obviously nobody (hopefully) is showing pony vore porn to their 3 year old, but I think the more you intermingle these universes the less people will be likely to notice when it's done in a psychologically or developmentally incorrect way.
Which is a really poor articulation of what I'm trying to say, but I can't do it any better right this minute. :P
For example, I was initially super disgusted by "that lyra plushie" that everyone probably already knows about. I was actually a bit angry at its existence. But then I tried to figure out why I disliked a thing. Part of it was some natural inclination that someone raping a plushie childrens toy thing was somehow vile. But I couldn't reconcile that with my more rational side that said that anything that goes on between a person and their innanimate personal toys in the privacy of the home is fine and I've got no problem with that.
Why do you think you have the instincts you do about a thing? If you can find a solid rational argument for it that you can hang your hat on, all the better.
What I question is whether things like this have an erosive effect on where "the line" is. I think they do, as a natural part of their existence.
Children are TOO sheltered now, from sharp edges and scary strangers and imaginary terrorist threats and god knows what else, but in other ways they're not sheltered enough, exposed by the internet to things that they're not ready to process in context yet. It's an odd mix.
If the idea of this bothers you on that level, you need to remember that there is a similar subculture for every single thing you can imagine. Every fandom has a "porny" side. Every single one.
Why do you not believe that a person can be "compartmentalized" about this thing?
I would say that statement said more about you than about them.
I mean, really, for some people there are no barriers for a thing. Those people do exist, certainly. But I also see plenty of people that legitimately are into x and not x+1.
This is going to become a moral relativism debate and I burned out on those 10 years ago. :-)
When I was young, I had 100% reign over my Internet (and pre-Internet) access. No filters, no restrictions, and no oversight. The first thing I ever searched for on the Internet? "Bomb making instructions." Number of bombs made and used for any purpose other than blowing up trashcans in the woods? Zero.
Children need to grow up learning that wandering around online is like wandering around outside. Net-savvy parents need to teach their kids to be the same way at a very early age. Filters are useless. Culture is evolving more rapidly than flesh. Adapt or be obsolete. ;^)
Its too bad, i was in the fandom from the early days, and have been actively participating in the creation aspects of it as well as the sustainment of the fandom. I am mainly an artist, as well as participating in game creation content, and the amount of creative output and input day by day astounds me. Art and Crafts, Creative Fiction, Music, Videos, Games, Animation; the creative wellspring is deep. Here is a recent, wonderful WIP example:
and an older, still in progress work:
If you would like to see what games the fandom come up with, this is a great place to start: http://www.equestriagaming.com/
How about a site dedicated to various brony variety shows and talk shows? : http://everfreeradio.com/
At the same time, the good that have come from a sustained community culture to be sharing, charitable people that try to parallel the message in the show, has seen donations to many children charities, the Humble Indie Bundle, as well as most recently a concluded charity for the building of a school and hospital in Africa. Here is a site showcasing the many charities that we have been involved with:
http://broniesforgood.org/
My sole question for you is this: did you engage us on this thread from the get go, with a focus on negative aspects, like Pony Slash Fiction, and other media flamed topics like Clopfiction, rather than spending the time researching on the community, its different faces, and the many segments of it, beforehand?
Even if you do not like the show, i believe it is something you should had done at least, to try to come up with a better, more balanced viewpoint when you engage us. Your earlier post insinuates that Pony Porn= Bronies, indeed a sad state of affairs the media and hysterics has turned the representation of the fandom into...and does tell me you did not bother looking beyond what we presented.
But as said before, I do not blame you, i just do remember the early days of the fandom fondly is all. For every so called insidious seepage of gross adult content, there is much more that have been done that is good, creative, and inspiring. You may be the one too jaded here.
You can't filter the "bad" stuff. Our culture has to evolve such that the "bad" stuff on the Internet is treated the same as the "bad" stuff in meatspace. Sentiment has no bearing, because there is literally no way to prevent a kids from having access to the "bad stuff" without crippling them in terms of their connectivity to the world.
Parents have to provide context. That's all that can be done. Explain the history of Goatse when they find it, and tell them about the first time you saw it. When they find rotten.com, let them know you saw the same thing around their age.
Whoa whoa whoa wait a minute there.
Then I went on to comment specifically about only that aspect, not the fandom as a whole.
I just want to make sure we're on the same page here.
Granted, Goatse is not PTSD territory but it's on a spectrum somewhere between fuzzy bunnies and PTSD.
I don't think my 13 year old daughter needs to see crime scene photos of mutilated corpses, then have them explained to her, to grow as a person.
I don't know what the solution is but it's not Alistair Crowley. :-)