The Zoloft mania, on the other hand, had me walking in circles around a coffee table while listening to the Talking Heads for an hour. This was because I woke up at 6am, and I couldn't do errands until 9am at least. I also got really bad akathisia, which is actually SO much more horrifying and uncomfortable than you'd think. Eventually I got exhausted and passed out.
Mania sounds awesome in theory (Endless creativity! Boundless sex drive! Infinite motivation!), but it actually makes it pretty much impossible to function normally.
Wow, that's pretty much exactly how I felt, minus the serotonin syndrome. Not so much now, although I still feel kinda anxious. But yeah, I had an anxious energy that I couldn't control. At times I was literally laughing maniacally and just ended up pacing around my apartment because I couldn't sit still. And when I would sit down I couldn't help but tap my foot anxiously, and even now that's still somewhat of an issue. I'm not sure if its because I tried taking it when I woke up instead, or if its just been in my system long enough for it to subside but it doesn't seem as bad now.
I've been having a really, really shit week. The team I've been working with had a hurricane of personal problems that basically threatened to delay things a whole ton and I pretty much fell apart. I do not handle that shit very well; I was running on six hours sleep over about three days, hands shaking, manic periods of "working" on stuff for 12+ hours without eating, too fucked up to really make progress but unable to justify stopping. It was probably the worse I've been in a couple of years.
Then, I put in my 2 weeks at my shitty job the other day (something I have been planning for a while) and that pretty much instantly cut down my stress to manageable levels. I had a good night's sleep last night, and I actually bounced out of bed feeling super refreshed. So... fuck that place, I guess.
I definitely related to the not accomplishing things. I don't know if it's my ADHD or what, but I can't seem to buckle down and do things that need doing. Even if they're fun and I wanna do them.
So, there's this kid in my history class who's really only being my friend so that he can have help studying and doing homework and stuff, but I really don't mind because he's at least talking to me.
On a scale of Scott Pilgrim to hermit, how fucked is my social life?
Yeah, the hits have been rolling a lot lately. Even beyond all the shitty stuff happening in my life, I've just been feeling isolated, even though I interact with people at work every day and spend tons of time with one of my roommates. I just feel empty a lot. Normally I like being in ruts like I am, but it just feels too meaningless right now. Yeah, not in a great place as of late.
The topic of depression has always been in the background for me but it presented full force a few weeks back when my class mate from University who I sat next to for 5 years straight committed suicide due to our profession. He left behind a 3 year old son and a wife. Our class raised a few thousand dollars for his son's college fund but I was in disbelief as he was one of the most upbeat guys I had ever met.
Unfortunately Veterinarians seem to be increasingly depressed and one of the more common professions in which depression is directly resulting in suicides. I guess this is a product of having access and knowledge required for euthanasia. The depression is often a result of low income, long hours, poor professional standards and some nut job trying to take you to the board for any small mistake that you make.
I've suddenly hit this stage with my boss not renewing my contract simply for not being as skilled as he would like, however when I asked if he could describe it, he simply couldn't as every facet of the job he found I was competent or excellent at. Then he said all the staff hated me and over the next 3 days every staff member came up and told me that this was a lie and they were unhappy about me leaving. (I already knew this however as I became friends with them outside of the job environment).
"Some activists lament how few anti-authoritarians there appear to be in the United States. One reason could be that many natural anti-authoritarians are now psychopathologized and medicated before they achieve political consciousness of society’s most oppressive authorities."
Or maybe they evaluated the evidence and came to the conclusion that those "oppressive authorities" are actually benevolent, not oppressive, and working for the public good. Maybe they have studied the system and decided it works well enough to try to change it from within rather than sitting in a park with a guitar shouting at passersby. Crazy conspiracy person.
This article demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of what these disorders ARE. For instance, ADHD is not "he doesn't do what I want" disorder. It's "even when he tries and wants to, he can't focus" disorder. Most of the time it is worse for the person with ADD than for the people around them.
I've worked with kids who have ODD. They're not anti-authoritarian - they are irrationally oppositional to everything that comes at them. Huge difference.
I also like the way this guy talks about anti-authoritarianism while also reminding us that he is an authority on the subject.
Also, this attitude:
It has been my experience that many anti-authoritarians labeled with psychiatric diagnoses usually don’t reject all authorities, simply those they’ve assessed to be illegitimate ones
necessitates a view of authority. To assess an authority and declare it illegitimate implicity requires that you are an authority that supersedes it. And if you can't actually provide some kind of basis for this claim of additional authority, you're just an asshole.
There is a mile-wide gulf between overthrowing a monarch and punching your parents in the face because they told you it's time to go to school. I've directly observed the latter behavior.
I agree with you both, but I have also seen what he has seen. Every one of my friends has at some point been diagnosed with ADD, ADHD, depression, anxiety, or some mix of the four, then given a prescription. Each and every one of them, for better or worse, reacts poorly to authority, which has caused undue conflict in their lives. Unfortunately cops, school bureaucracies, and restaurant owners are assholes, and my friends break the law, went to school, and have jobs. The stress of being controlled by authorities which expect them to act in a way unnatural to them leads to depression, anxiety, and difficulty concentrating. All of them have quit their meds because it made them complacent and emotionally numb, and now they are happily existing in cultural niches with little or no authority in their lives.
This pattern isn't a medical catch-all, but it happens.
Were you ever forced to explain your position to the coke-addicted owner of a small town Applebees? What about a cop who jails you for two weeks under false pretenses? Have you ever excelled in a topic then failed a test and had to drop out of school?
Sometimes being in touch with reality can drive a person insane.
Haven't dropped out because of it yet, but yeah. I actually had a high F in World History last year, only passing because the final was beyond stupid. Also, I failed US history term 3 (or 2, can't remember).
I agree with you both, but I have also seen what he has seen. Every one of my friends has at some point been diagnosed with ADD, ADHD, depression, anxiety, or some mix of the four, then given a prescription. Each and every one of them, for better or worse, reacts poorly to authority, which has caused undue conflict in their lives. Unfortunately cops, school bureaucracies, and restaurant owners are assholes, and my friends break the law, went to school, and have jobs. The stress of being controlled by authorities which expect them to act in a way unnatural to them leads to depression, anxiety, and difficulty concentrating. All of them have quit their meds because it made them complacent and emotionally numb, and now they are happily existing in cultural niches with little or no authority in their lives.
This pattern isn't a medical catch-all, but it happens.
Poll 1,000 people on the street. See how many of them HAVEN'T had stress and conflict in their lives because of poor reactions to authority. I seriously doubt this is a mental-illness-only problem. The people with depression, anxiety, ADD, ODD, etc are going to have more trouble coping with that stress and conflict the same way they have trouble coping with other stress and conflict. It doesn't mean they are more opposed to authority than the rest of people.
Also, in general:
Misdiagnosis happens sometimes. Alternatively, a correct diagnosis where the patient develops their own coping mechanisms also happens. We all try to find the things that work for us. There are certain fields I will not work in because I can't handle it. Finding a lifestyle that works for you without the need for medication is awesome. Not all of us have problems to the same degree of debilitation.
As far as meds go, we've had this discussion over and over. Not every drug works for every person. I quit Effexor because it just took everything away and I felt numb. That doesn't mean I wasn't having a problem or that no meds would work for me. It just meant I hadn't found the right one yet. I could have given up public performance, not gone to law school, and gotten a job in a back room somewhere doing something easy. That would have helped me avoid the anxiety problems I experience. (It wouldn't have done anything about the crazy PMS rage, but hey, men already expect that.) But I didn't want to be ruled by my anxiety, so I chose to keep looking for a tool to help me overcome it and still do what I wanted to do. I eventually found something that worked for me.
I had a problem with someone where I feel a person genuinely has a mental health concern and tried to communicate it with them. They took it as, "Why do you think something is wrong with me?" and were offended and angry (hah, part of my concern). That sort of prejudice against mental health concerns is a huge problem. I don't personally feel like someone is "wrong" if they need help. The phobia of getting help of some form or acknowledging a problem are huge.
HEY GUISE hyperbole and a half is back with an awesome and spot on description of the depression experience, which Allie happens to be undergoing. Read it!
In other news, I recently had a lapse in taking meds and got pretty depressed. I've been taking them regularly for the last few weeks, but am still struggling with motivation. Concerned that they might have finally gotten tired of our on-off relationship. Have made progress: have fragile tendrils of proactivity emerging. Afraid they will get squished out before really taking root. Having trouble maintaining that level of proactivity, because it's so boring.
HEY GUISE hyperbole and a half is back with an awesome and spot on description of the depression experience, which Allie happens to be undergoing. Read it!
"No, see, that solution is for a different problem than the one I have." <--- sums up other people very nicely.
Yeah. That is what I've gotten from talking to non-depressed people about this. Phrases like, "You have to create your own happiness," or "You have to make it positive and choose to be happy," drive me completely insane. They don't understand that said method works for them because they aren't suffering from a mental illness.
I agree with you both, but I have also seen what he has seen. Every one of my friends has at some point been diagnosed with ADD, ADHD, depression, anxiety, or some mix of the four, then given a prescription. Each and every one of them, for better or worse, reacts poorly to authority, which has caused undue conflict in their lives. Unfortunately cops, school bureaucracies, and restaurant owners are assholes, and my friends break the law, went to school, and have jobs. The stress of being controlled by authorities which expect them to act in a way unnatural to them leads to depression, anxiety, and difficulty concentrating. All of them have quit their meds because it made them complacent and emotionally numb, and now they are happily existing in cultural niches with little or no authority in their lives.
This pattern isn't a medical catch-all, but it happens.
Poll 1,000 people on the street. See how many of them HAVEN'T had stress and conflict in their lives because of poor reactions to authority. I seriously doubt this is a mental-illness-only problem. The people with depression, anxiety, ADD, ODD, etc are going to have more trouble coping with that stress and conflict the same way they have trouble coping with other stress and conflict. It doesn't mean they are more opposed to authority than the rest of people.
I never said it was a mental-illness-only problem. I never said stress due to conflict with authority = mental illness or automatic diagnosis. I never said people who actually have a mental illness are always or never anti-authoritarian. I am not making a general argument. All I am saying is that social deviants (anarchists, truants, drug users, etc.) can find themselves, as minors or impressionable adults, misdiagnosed (whether by family, friends, doctors, or society at large) and given meds they don't need by virtue of their deviance. The drugs sometimes correct their perceived deviance but do little to further their personal goals. Think of it as one route of misdiagnosis among many.
HEY GUISE hyperbole and a half is back with an awesome and spot on description of the depression experience, which Allie happens to be undergoing. Read it!
I read stories like this many times, and I end up having the same questions come up each time.
I absolutely know that feeling where playing with toys has no meaning anymore. Hot new video game? Whatever. I am king of jaded. I don't get any feels from that shit. Everyone else is getting super excited about this, that, or the other thing, and I couldn't give a fraction of a rat turd.
Does that mean I'm depressed if I have the same exact lack of feeling that people who are definitely clinically depressed describe having? If so, should I do something about it?
But then I read the other part of the depression story where the person wants to die, and that is the exact opposite of me. Sure, there is always l’appel du vide that everyone has. Hmm, how about jumping on those subway tracks? Otherwise, I have a very strong desire to stay alive.
Mostly that is because for all my jadedness, the strongest of the strong stuff still works. I can still laugh at the funniest of jokes. Or be amazed at the most beautiful of arts.
For example, flowers, whatever. They're flowers. They don't do anything for me. But I was biking a week ago and in the park on a random corner near the road there was a tiny patch of tulips that were fuckin' perfect. In this random place somebody planted these flowers. They were so crazy that not only me on my bike, but two people driving stopped their cars to get out and take a picture with their phones. They may as well have been fake they were so flawless.
These are they. I guess one of them has a bent petal. Whatever.
99% of games I play have that meaningless lack of feeling, as if they are lifeless toys. But there is still that occasion when I play the finest of the finest games. Like when I played Papers Please last week. It's so crazy good! And when I'm playing Netrunner, there will still be some crazy positive or negative emotions from winning or losing a big game. If I watch a regular old anime, whatever. But if I watch something great, like Utena, I really want to watch some more! I can still get excited if my sports teams win big. Exceptionally good food is still exceptional, like the corn bread at John Brown BBQ. HOLY SHIT that corn bread.
I just wonder what it means, if it means anything at all, that I can strongly identify with the first symptom of depression when it comes to most things in life, but have the absolute opposite feeling when it comes to the severe symptoms.
Scott, what you are experiencing is different. You are simply jaded. Not depressed. Similar result some of the time, but a depressed person doesn't want to seek out those "best" experiences, let alone enjoy them.
Walker: That may be true, but I don't think it's as prevalent as this guy's article makes it out to be. His article has a tone of "hey, the people who have these issues are actually fine, you just don't understand them." I'm sure that's true for some, but for those who actually need the help it is ONE MORE THING reinforcing the stigma on those illnesses and the attitudes of the people who don't understand them. It is like the people in the above comic who insist that the fish are just missing and can be found. Unfortunately, a lot of us legitimately have dead fish.
Articles like this give the impression that these illnesses aren't real: they are just labels for people who don't conform. That's doing more harm than good.
Comments
Then, I put in my 2 weeks at my shitty job the other day (something I have been planning for a while) and that pretty much instantly cut down my stress to manageable levels. I had a good night's sleep last night, and I actually bounced out of bed feeling super refreshed. So... fuck that place, I guess.
On a scale of Scott Pilgrim to hermit, how fucked is my social life?
Not depressed so much as just beat down and wishing I had a break coming up soon.
Unfortunately Veterinarians seem to be increasingly depressed and one of the more common professions in which depression is directly resulting in suicides. I guess this is a product of having access and knowledge required for euthanasia. The depression is often a result of low income, long hours, poor professional standards and some nut job trying to take you to the board for any small mistake that you make.
I've suddenly hit this stage with my boss not renewing my contract simply for not being as skilled as he would like, however when I asked if he could describe it, he simply couldn't as every facet of the job he found I was competent or excellent at. Then he said all the staff hated me and over the next 3 days every staff member came up and told me that this was a lie and they were unhappy about me leaving. (I already knew this however as I became friends with them outside of the job environment).
http://www.madinamerica.com/2012/02/why-anti-authoritarians-are-diagnosed-as-mentally-ill/
Or maybe they evaluated the evidence and came to the conclusion that those "oppressive authorities" are actually benevolent, not oppressive, and working for the public good. Maybe they have studied the system and decided it works well enough to try to change it from within rather than sitting in a park with a guitar shouting at passersby. Crazy conspiracy person.
This article demonstrates a fundamental lack of understanding of what these disorders ARE. For instance, ADHD is not "he doesn't do what I want" disorder. It's "even when he tries and wants to, he can't focus" disorder. Most of the time it is worse for the person with ADD than for the people around them.
I also like the way this guy talks about anti-authoritarianism while also reminding us that he is an authority on the subject.
Also, this attitude: necessitates a view of authority. To assess an authority and declare it illegitimate implicity requires that you are an authority that supersedes it. And if you can't actually provide some kind of basis for this claim of additional authority, you're just an asshole.
There is a mile-wide gulf between overthrowing a monarch and punching your parents in the face because they told you it's time to go to school. I've directly observed the latter behavior.
ODD is ugly.
This pattern isn't a medical catch-all, but it happens.
Sometimes being in touch with reality can drive a person insane.
Also, in general:
Misdiagnosis happens sometimes. Alternatively, a correct diagnosis where the patient develops their own coping mechanisms also happens. We all try to find the things that work for us. There are certain fields I will not work in because I can't handle it. Finding a lifestyle that works for you without the need for medication is awesome. Not all of us have problems to the same degree of debilitation.
As far as meds go, we've had this discussion over and over. Not every drug works for every person. I quit Effexor because it just took everything away and I felt numb. That doesn't mean I wasn't having a problem or that no meds would work for me. It just meant I hadn't found the right one yet. I could have given up public performance, not gone to law school, and gotten a job in a back room somewhere doing something easy. That would have helped me avoid the anxiety problems I experience. (It wouldn't have done anything about the crazy PMS rage, but hey, men already expect that.) But I didn't want to be ruled by my anxiety, so I chose to keep looking for a tool to help me overcome it and still do what I wanted to do. I eventually found something that worked for me.
HEY GUISE hyperbole and a half is back with an awesome and spot on description of the depression experience, which Allie happens to be undergoing. Read it!
In other news, I recently had a lapse in taking meds and got pretty depressed. I've been taking them regularly for the last few weeks, but am still struggling with motivation. Concerned that they might have finally gotten tired of our on-off relationship. Have made progress: have fragile tendrils of proactivity emerging. Afraid they will get squished out before really taking root. Having trouble maintaining that level of proactivity, because it's so boring.
I absolutely know that feeling where playing with toys has no meaning anymore. Hot new video game? Whatever. I am king of jaded. I don't get any feels from that shit. Everyone else is getting super excited about this, that, or the other thing, and I couldn't give a fraction of a rat turd.
Does that mean I'm depressed if I have the same exact lack of feeling that people who are definitely clinically depressed describe having? If so, should I do something about it?
But then I read the other part of the depression story where the person wants to die, and that is the exact opposite of me. Sure, there is always l’appel du vide that everyone has. Hmm, how about jumping on those subway tracks? Otherwise, I have a very strong desire to stay alive.
Mostly that is because for all my jadedness, the strongest of the strong stuff still works. I can still laugh at the funniest of jokes. Or be amazed at the most beautiful of arts.
For example, flowers, whatever. They're flowers. They don't do anything for me. But I was biking a week ago and in the park on a random corner near the road there was a tiny patch of tulips that were fuckin' perfect. In this random place somebody planted these flowers. They were so crazy that not only me on my bike, but two people driving stopped their cars to get out and take a picture with their phones. They may as well have been fake they were so flawless.
These are they. I guess one of them has a bent petal. Whatever.
99% of games I play have that meaningless lack of feeling, as if they are lifeless toys. But there is still that occasion when I play the finest of the finest games. Like when I played Papers Please last week. It's so crazy good! And when I'm playing Netrunner, there will still be some crazy positive or negative emotions from winning or losing a big game. If I watch a regular old anime, whatever. But if I watch something great, like Utena, I really want to watch some more! I can still get excited if my sports teams win big. Exceptionally good food is still exceptional, like the corn bread at John Brown BBQ. HOLY SHIT that corn bread.
I just wonder what it means, if it means anything at all, that I can strongly identify with the first symptom of depression when it comes to most things in life, but have the absolute opposite feeling when it comes to the severe symptoms.
Articles like this give the impression that these illnesses aren't real: they are just labels for people who don't conform. That's doing more harm than good.